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Old 07-12-2013, 08:36 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56 View Post
"It" in the terms im talking about means drive the will not to loose... for instance when you throw on tape of Brady, Manning, Luck, Wilson, Rodgers.... when any of those guys are down in the 4th quarter you can never count them out.

Romo on the other hand might have had a great 3 quarters and some how find a way to lose a game in the 4th....


THAT IS "IT" im not talking about rings, im talking about that sense of you can never count the guy out when he is under center.
To be fair to Romo, this is an inaccurate statement. Romo has the most 4th quarter comebacks in the league.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:41 AM    (permalink
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i do not really disagree, its the market though. Its way easier to stick with what you know (especially when they are productive and all around good players) than going out and rolling the dice on someone you dont know if they will suck or not and put your franchise in the gutter

Its better to pay for and try to build a team around guys like romo, ryan, cutler, rivers...all guys with good skill, limited or no playoff wins, and good production than being on the hook financially with mark sanchez, sam bradford, or jamarcus russel. Or go out and get a middle of the pack game manager like alex smith, matt cassel, ryan fitzmagic, kevin kolb, carson palmer, matt flynn...ect. Or just being flat out screwed by blaine gabbert

Point is, he got a big contract, but is not making them worse. He still has time to win, dez is turning the corner in a big way, they look like theyve built a pretty decent Oline, theres reason to be excited about the defense.

Outside of luck, theres not one young/rookie QB i think would make the cowboys BETTER than what romo makes them, definitely time to start looking towards the future but no way would they be better off with wilson, cousins, locker, ponder, gabbert, . They kept their own, obviously they think it can pay off....i hope it doesnt so i dont have to listen to everyone flip flop on how great romo is all of a sudden
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56 View Post
"It" in the terms im talking about means drive the will not to loose... for instance when you throw on tape of Brady, Manning, Luck, Wilson, Rodgers.... when any of those guys are down in the 4th quarter you can never count them out.

Romo on the other hand might have had a great 3 quarters and some how find a way to lose a game in the 4th....


THAT IS "IT" im not talking about rings, im talking about that sense of you can never count the guy out when he is under center.
I cant even take this seriously, what are you citing? the game against the lions? Short memory and small sample size....romo does plenty good in the 4th quater
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:46 AM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
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winning games is great, and he might have the most comebacks in the 4th.

BUT...lets play a game and put Romo on the Broncos in the Chargers game down 24 points... Does Romo have the command of his team and trust and will to make that comeback?


NO... i would take any of the previously stated QBs over Romo if i needed a win
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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I cant even take this seriously, what are you citing? the game against the lions? Short memory and small sample size....romo does plenty good in the 4th quater
That's not the only one..... it's called the ROMO-COASTER for a reason.
Was bad enough, here's LonghornsLegend after that game:









Many fans are way too hard on Romo. He's good.
But he is a lot like the Original Wisconsin Gunslinger Favray..... he might come up heroic, but more often than not in the biggest games & moments, it's GAG-CITY.

Both QB's gave their fans many heartbreaks late.
Just like Peyton Manning in the playoffs.... they come up small in the biggest moments more often than not.
But rack up fantastic stats along the way to get there.....

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Old 07-12-2013, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56 View Post
winning games is great, and he might have the most comebacks in the 4th.

BUT...lets play a game and put Romo on the Broncos in the Chargers game down 24 points... Does Romo have the command of his team and trust and will to make that comeback?


NO... i would take any of the previously stated QBs over Romo if i needed a win
Regular season game...Peyton is my favorite athlete of all time but if you want to look at something look at the playoff games against the ravens...or most of the playoff games against the chargers.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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While the pay of the top half of starting QBs in the NFL have gone up, they are often one of the first players to restructure their contracts when needed.

The problem is what do you do with the young QBs who haven't proven anything but have shown enough that you don't want to let them walk. Someone would pay them if they hit the market, that's not even an option. You have to pay them.
Contract restructuring is also one of the things that has given quarterbacks so much leverage. When they redo deals, the result is usually that the final year of the player's contract has a huge cap number, resulting in a huge franchise number if the player is not re-signed. In Stafford's case, had they not given him a new deal his franchise number would have been something like $25 million.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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I don't see DM as a arse, but more so as a very insecure person. The type of person that needs to knock others to raise himself up. I believe and it's my opinion that he is his # 1 fan. While some players who are good say, "I will let others defer to how good I was", McNabb is the type that will hype himself up if given a chance. He will also put others down to make himself look better.

http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2013/0...-hall-of-fame/

Now, I think he has a good career, and will be a borderline HOFer. I think his numbers get him easily into the conversation, but he never won anything. He made it there and by TO's accounts choked, looked sick. I think he said McNabb pulled a Willie Beamen and yacked.


Like I said though, I don't see DM as a bad person, but instead a highly insecure guy. I expect more comments from him when he gets the chance especially if the QB isn't a top flight QB. I can see him picking on newer to mid level QBs when given the chance.
Thank you...this is exactly what I was trying to express when I started this thread, though it is now clear to me that I was unable to find the correct words.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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They should have asked McNabb "well what should Detroit have done instead then"? I'm sure letting him hit free agency or trading him was a better idea right?
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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It's a quote used on Capitol Hill all the time; 'don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.'

Good QBs are worth their weight in gold. ELite QBs are priceless. Letting a good QB walk because he isn't elite, or thinking he can be 'easily' replaced with another random or as yet unknown good QB is a dangerous strategy for NFL GMs.

Romo is missing a crucial football gene somewhere when it comes to decision making in crucial situations, but he's still a talented QB.

Unless a team like Dallas or the Lions have another QB on deck they feel is equal or superior to the player they already have, you have to pony up and (over)pay these guys.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Thank you...this is exactly what I was trying to express when I started this thread, though it is now clear to me that I was unable to find the correct words.
Well I noticed this back in the days when he was hurt in Philly and Garcia was winning games. I remember reading how his mom didn't want him to win because that meant more pressure and crowd may turn against McNabb. You factor race stuff he has mentioned, and now retired comments and he is that type of guy. It all stems from insecurity. Insecure about your talents and abilities and so if someone sees another person as probably better, the immediate thing to do is knock them down because it builds yourself up.

In my personal opinion, having come across people like that, that's what type of person DM is. He won't go after the legends like brady or Peyton Manning, but everyone else is fair game. It's exactly what I said, McNabb is his own # 1 fan. That's why when asked if he is a HOFer I expected that kind of response.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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I think the trend is now for teams to simply make the determination..."Is my guy a franchise QB or not?" If they decide he is, then they give him the money. Guys that are decidedly franchise QBs but have not had postseason success are getting $16 million-$18 million a year, and those who have won the Super Bowl are getting closer to $20 million a year, and these numbers are steadily rising.. Over the next couple of years a few more QBs are due to get deals; Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, Andy Dalton, Sam Bradford, Josh Freeman, Cam Newton. And if their respective teams decide to keep them on as their franchise guy, they will likely get similar money. If not, they will simply move on and start over. So it is now a matter of have or have not, rather than different tiers of pay.
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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I think the trend is now for teams to simply make the determination..."Is my guy a franchise QB or not?" If they decide he is, then they give him the money. Guys that are decidedly franchise QBs but have not had postseason success are getting $16 million-$18 million a year, and those who have won the Super Bowl are getting closer to $20 million a year, and these numbers are steadily rising.. Over the next couple of years a few more QBs are due to get deals; Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, Andy Dalton, Sam Bradford, Josh Freeman, Cam Newton. And if their respective teams decide to keep them on as their franchise guy, they will likely get similar money. If not, they will simply move on and start over. So it is now a matter of have or have not, rather than different tiers of pay.
IMO, all 6 of those guys are franchise QBs
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Old 07-12-2013, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Sam Bradford is if he can stay healthy... if not then NO
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Old 07-12-2013, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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It's a quote used on Capitol Hill all the time; 'don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.'

Good QBs are worth their weight in gold. ELite QBs are priceless. Letting a good QB walk because he isn't elite, or thinking he can be 'easily' replaced with another random or as yet unknown good QB is a dangerous strategy for NFL GMs.

Romo is missing a crucial football gene somewhere when it comes to decision making in crucial situations, but he's still a talented QB.

Unless a team like Dallas or the Lions have another QB on deck they feel is equal or superior to the player they already have, you have to pony up and (over)pay these guys.

Agree 100%. Nobody is going to take a solid QB and just throw him back into the pool to start over unless they have another option, the Bucs are trying to give themselves some insurance with Glennon, the Chargers got insurance with Rivers while Brees contract was up, if you don't have that guy in place you'll live with over paying the QB you do have according to the public but will keep giving yourself a chance to win.


Considering what the Lions QB situation had been like, continually paying Stafford is a no brainer that can't be criticized IMO even though he's obviously got his warts that he needs to improve on before taking them to the next level.
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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To correct you:
Guys like Stafford, Cutler, Freeman, Bradford and Ryan are QBs who you don't just let walk. However, out of all of them, Matt Ryan is the only guy who is worth the money.

Say the Bucs miss the playoffs at 9-7 or 10-6 and Freeman has a so-so year , like 2012. Should the Bucs give him 15 mil per or let him walk? IMO, you don't give a QB who isn't the upper echelon, top 12 QB that type of money unless he';s taking you to the playoffs and has you a contender year in year out.

Now, say he takes 10-12 mil per. That's a different story. What Detroit gave stafford is ridiculous.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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To correct you:
Guys like Stafford, Cutler, Freeman, Bradford and Ryan are QBs who you don't just let walk. However, out of all of them, Matt Ryan is the only guy who is worth the money.

Say the Bucs miss the playoffs at 9-7 or 10-6 and Freeman has a so-so year , like 2012. Should the Bucs give him 15 mil per or let him walk? IMO, you don't give a QB who isn't the upper echelon, top 12 QB that type of money unless he';s taking you to the playoffs and has you a contender year in year out.

Now, say he takes 10-12 mil per. That's a different story. What Detroit gave stafford is ridiculous.
I disagree. As of right now he is the 5th highest paid QB in the league which for a franchise QB is really a coup Matt Ryan and Jay Cutler are going to get more money in the next free agency period. In 2016 when I think he would have became a free agent RGIII, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Rothlesburger are setting the QB market. Even if you convince him to take make a home town discount its still going to be considerably more than what it is going to cost them with this contract. Secondly they aren't going to find a better QB unless they get the first overall pick again. Honestly those picks would be better spent building a team around Stafford as oppose to replacing him. Third, it decreases his cap number for the next two/three years which is going to help them re-sign some bigger pieces like Suh if that is the direction they want to go.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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To be fair to Romo, this is an inaccurate statement. Romo has the most 4th quarter comebacks in the league.
You having a giggle, mate?

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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:42 AM    (permalink
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These guys get paid like they are because there are probably 20 other teams out there that would pay them just as much or more.

As a Vikings fan, I'd be happy to have Romo, Stafford or Flacco starting for us, it's the most important position and the league is determined to make it even more important so if you have a guy who has shown the ability to be very good then you are going to pay him great.

Look at the last few SB winners and losers they've all had a good QB since the Bears and the good-very good guys give you a chance to win a SB if you can build something around them. What hasn't been remotely common is getting a shot at a SB without at least a good QB. Romo, Stafford and Flacco are all good QBs...
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Cutler will not get an extension. Book it.

Emery will want his own guy. Book it.
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who retires first: brett favre or aaron rodgers?
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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IMO, Donovan McNabb is one of the most underrated and underappreciated QBs of my lifetime. His consistent success with a consistently horrible group of WRs was incredible. People always harp on his numbers and his lack of rings. He did kinda choke in that Super Bowl, but overall he played well in the playoffs throughout his career, and I just feel he doesnt get nearly enough credit. As far as him talking **** about other QBs as an analyst? meh. Hes just giving his opinion.

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Old 07-16-2013, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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and Peyton happens to be one of the greatest choke artists in the history of the game...lol...thats why I discount all the people who talk about Tony Romos 4th qutr rating and stuff as a reason hes not a choke artist. Who cares if he throws 4 TDs in the fourth quarter to make the comeback happen if he throws an INT in the endzone with 30 second left when the game is on the line? (i know that is an exaggeration, but you get the point, and I think that is the story of Romos career.) Everytime it seems he is going to accomplish something great he blows it. And Manning might be the comeback king in the regular season, but he will go down as probably the #1 postseason choke artist in NFL history.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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I think Aaron Brooks was behind only Tom Brady in 4th quarter comebacks circa 2004. Of course Aaron Brooks was not that great of a player. So it all depends on context.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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In order to lead the league in 4th quarter comebacks you have to be behind in the 3rd quarter. Thus it is the most over rated stat ever.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Cutler will not get an extension. Book it.

Emery will want his own guy. Book it.
I was skeptical, but you said book it, so now I'm sold.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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