Trolling hard here. But I couldn't resist putting together a team of undrafted...
PG Kevin Johnson - Phoenix Suns - 1990-91
SG Latrell Sprewell - Golden State Warriors - 1993-94
SF Larry Johnson - Charlotte Hornets - 1992-93
PF Antonio McDyess - Denver Nuggetts - 2000-2001
C Rasheed Wallace - Detroit Pistons/Trailblazers/Hawks - 2003-2004
PG Rajon Rondo - Boston Celtics - 2011-12
SG Allan Houston - New York Knicks - 2002-03
PF Toni Kukoc - Chicago Bulls - 1995-96
..yes, this sig is a little embarrassing right now...but it's like my penance
Originally Posted by borg9
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
PG: Isiah Thomas
SG: Jerry West
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Lebron James
C: Hakeem Olajuwon
BN: Patrick Ewing, C
BN: Steve Nash, PG
BN: George Gervin, G/F
My team was initially built with guys that are elite on both offense and defense. Many regard Hakeem as the best modern post defender and his presence was absolutely dominating in that sense. Coupled with him i have the best defender in the NBA of this decade who excels in both man and help defense playing PF. Are we done there? Nope. I added the best perimeter defender of the past 30 years in Scottie Pippen, who is probably the best "do it all" guy of that time frame as well. He is all about the team, constant hustle and will contribute in every way imaginable to help the team. Think about what Kawhi Leonard did for the Spurs in these past finals and multiply that by ten and that's Scottie Pippen. Three all-world defenders, coupled with Isiah Thomas, a ferocious on ball defender at PG whose size never deterred him from getting in someone's face and playing at a high level on defense as well. The fact that i have four all time greats at their positions on defense allows me to have the perfect fifth in Jerry West. Scottie and Lebron's ability to guard multiple positions allows Jerry to remain on the weak side at all times, regardless of who is there, which plays perfectly to his strengths on that side of the ball: playing the passing lanes and being an off-ball defender. He was widely considered one of the best of his era and was known to have games with 5+ steals regularly. The rotations on this defense would be outstanding and should anyone beat their man (the likelihood of that happening would be slim as is), they would have Hakeem Olajuwon waiting for them in the paint to swat anything away. Should Hakeem get into foul trouble, Patrick Ewing would come off the bench and we would not skip a beat.
On offense, the offense would go inside out. With Jerry being the only real distance threat, our offense would go directly into our post players, the unstoppable Lebron James (whose ridiculously efficient year makes it one of the all-time best offensive years, in all history) and Hakeem Olajuwon would carry the bulk of the load on offense. Olajuwon regularly cut through opposing bigs like a hot knife through butter. His large array of skillful moves created easy buckets for him on that side of the ball, and had the range to bring bigs out of the paint. Lebron would serve as the facilitator from the high post, giving him the ability to drive the ball into the hoop or to look for the open perimeter player in West or Scottie cutting to the basket. Isiah would have no issue bringing the ball up the court and setting up the offense and looking for his open players, as evidenced by his 14 assists per game that season. Off the bench we'd have another great post scorer in Patrick Ewing (28ppg on 50+pct) and Gervin, who averaged 32ppg that season. Steve Nash would be a the perfect change of pace for Isiah. A 50/40/90 year while dishing out double digit assists and running an elite high flying offense. A Scottie Pippen/Lebron James/Steve Nash fast break would be a thing of beauty.
SF KEVIN DURANT, OKC Thunder, 2012-13 [#2 MVP Voting, 50/40/90 club]
PF TIM DUNCAN, San Antonio Spurs, 2002-03 [MVP, Finals MVP, All-Time Leader in Postseason Win Shares, #1 in Reg Season Win Shares, 1st Team All-D]
C BILL WALTON, Portland Trailblazers, 1976-77 [Finals MVP, #1 in Blocks and Rebounds per game, 1st Team All-D]
PF DENNIS RODMAN, Detroit Pistons, 1991-92 [Most RPG (18.7) since Wilt in 72, 1st Team All Defense, #1 in Defensive Win Shares]
SF ELGIN BAYLOR, LA Lakers, 1961-62 [39/18/5 while not practicing all season. 61/22 in finals game 5]
PG TINY ARCHIBALD, Cincinnati Royals 1972-73 [Only player ever to lead the league in points and assists - 34.0/11.4]
3 NBA Champions
3 Finals MVP
5 1st Team All-NBA Selections
3 1st Team All-Defense Selections
8 All Stars
5 Double-Double Averages
1 Scoring Champ
1 Post-Season Scoring Champ
2 Rebounding Champs
1 Assist Champ
1 Block Champ
1 50/40/90 Clubber
1 FT% Champ
1 Win Shares Leader - Regular Season + Playoffs
The All-Time Leader in Playoff Win Shares
The All-Time Leader in Rebounds per Game (Post Merger)
#1 & 2 Finals PER's (post-merger)
This is a group of players who are not only winners (3 Finals MVPs) but guys who with multi-facteted games who really understand how to play within the framework of a team. Almost all of these guys are excellent passers for their position and can create for others every bit as well as they can create for themselves. This is a going to be a team that's built on athleticism, ball movement and team defense. Every single player on this team is highly regarded as a "team guy" and almost all of these guys noticeably elevated their play during the post-season with the money on the line.
This team was constructed inside-out but not in a conventional, ground-and-pound way. Center Bill Walton is the best passing big of all time and Tim Duncan is not far behind at all. Both guys can operate out of the high and the low post very effectively. Both guys excel in pick and roll and are both selfless teammates. I surrounded them with 3 guys who are all historically elite athlete athletes for their positions. Penny Hardaway is probably the most athletic PG for his size to ever play the game. In his prime in 96 he was the closest thing to Jordan in the league (.603 TS%) and took the Magic to the ECF to the Bulls. He's significantly bigger than every other starting PG except Magic and he's a way better athlete than Earvin. 06 Dwyane Wade was phenomenal at slashing and getting to the rim. Also a very good passing SG (almost 7 APG) who's an awesome offensive rebounder for his position. So with Duncan and Walton at the center of the offense, I want Penny and D-Wade cutting using their athleticism on basket cuts and getting to the rim/drawing fouls. Kevin Durant can put the ball on the floor and attack too but he offers floor spacing as one of the greatest shooting forwards ever to touch a basketball. I'm not sure there's a SF out there not named LeBron or Scottie who really has a chance at effectively D'ing up KD, especially with the way my bigs can pass out of double teams. You have 3 phenomenal athletes in the backcourt and one of the best floor-running big men in Tim Duncan which makes this a deadly line up in transition. Off the bench, Elgin Baylor was a SF/PF but will be more of a SF/SG in this because of his height. His 62 season is almost incomprehensible. Elgin wasn't a great pure shooter but he is one of the greatest creators ever to play and is a monster on the boards. And Tiny Archibald is the only player ever to lead the league in points and assists. Watching Tiny, he's probably one of the very few guards from the 60s/70s who could legitimately play in today's game. Super quick and could finish at the rim like NYC guys can. He can come off the bench and be a sparkplug for the 2nd group offensive unit and generate offense on his own. And because Penny can play the 1 or the 2, Penny can play SG if needed when Tiny comes off the bench. And then you had Dennis Rodman who will be a 2nd chance machine for the offense averaging a ridiculous 6.4 offensive rebounds per game in 92.
This is gonna be a team based on unselfish basketball but I have two guys in 06 Wade and 13 Durant who are cold-blooded crunch-time players who can selfishly take over the offense when it's needed.
This team has 3 of the great post defenders ever to play the game in Duncan, Walton, and of course Rodman. All 1st Team Defenders. Duncan had more blocked shots than any player in a Finals, Walton led the league in blocks and was 1st team All-Defense over Kareem and Rodman in 92 could guard all-5 positions at a VERY high level and had more defensive win shares than anybody in 92. Duncan and Walton are very smart defenders who will anchor the team but on a team full of superstars, this is where Dennis Rodman becomes tremendously valuable. You need role players and there is no better role player at doing the tough dirty work than Dennis. He still had his athleticism from his Detroit days but was stronger and more devastating than he'd ever been on the boards. He's a perfect guy off the bench in this because he'll be fresh with limited minutes his effort will be EXTRA relentless and basically he'll outwork, outhustle, outdefend and essentially terrorize whatever post player you wanna throw at him. He brings the physicality to this team. In the backcourt, I got Penny and KD who are extremely long and extremely athletic on the perimeter. Penny was always a very solid defender and KD took big time strides in 2013 (#3 in defensive win shares). At SG, DWade is a great shot blocker at SG and can create a lot of turnovers and turn them into transition buckets. And Elgin was probably the best rebounding non-post ever so he can be an impact player on the boards.
PG: John Stockton
SG: Clyde Drexlar
SF: Larry Bird
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
C: Wilt Chamberlain
SF: James Worthy
F/C: Amare Stoudemire
G: Tony Parker
A team of champions that make each other better in every aspect on the floor. Starting with the floor generals, starting at point gaurd John Stockton probably one of the most successful player without a championships and holds the assist record. You pair anyone up with him on a pick and roll it will be deadly. Wilt learning the pick and roll with Stockton would be something amazing to see. Coming off the bench Amare Stoudemire who worked the pick and roll much like Stockton and Malone did in Utah will exel with this while stockton is running the floor. Starting at shooting guard Clyde Drexlar, he did it all from scoring, rebounding, and passing he was an all around great player. Starting at small forward is the Renaissance Man himself Larry Legend. He played great at everything he did, he was a scorer, rebounder, defender, shooter, team player, and a clutch performer. He made everyone around him want it as much as he did, this is the type of player you'd want on your team. Starting at Power Forward Dirk Nowitzki a one of a kind Power Forward. We've never seen a 7 footer shoot as well as Dirk. He has the most ungaurdable shot in NBA History. If he had the ball in his hands with the clock ticking down you'd be in good hands. He spaces the floor, a power forward that can be a threat beyond the arc is a nightmare for defenders he could take you from the top of the key and down to the low post a versatile player at the position. Starting at Center Wilt Chamberlain a strong post defender, a rim protector, or a shot blocker whatever you want to call it he was that guy. But not only was he a great defender he's a rebounding monster and will get to the basket at will. With his strength and size he was able to position himself for the ball and do whatever he wanted down in the post.
Now on the bench, James Worthy wasn't named Big Game James for no reason. He earned it by putting the team on his back when others were slacking or injured. He won huge games in the playoffs leading the lakers to a championship. He just found ways to winn. Tony Parker an all around great player will find ways to make all players around him better. Knows what to do in all situations he is the definition of the floor general. Amare Stoudemire coming off the bench being a spark plug and the explosive guy he is will work well if either Tony or Stockton was on the court. Athletism was through the roof and was a monster in the pick and roll.
I love Duncan and Walton but come on, neither of them are two of the greatest defenders of all time.
I'm really trying not to be APS with hyperboles and fluffed up bullsh*t but Duncan is a top 5 post defender ever and that's not that bold at all. I'm kinda surprised you even brought his name up. Walton is always tough to place in historical perspective but from everything I've seen/heard/read he was flat out dominant defensively from 76-78. Was first team All-D twice (over Kareem), came 2nd in MVP voting one year and won it the next in years where he was a good but not elite offensive player. There's little doubt he would've won DPOY in back to back years had they given out the award at that point. There were obviously stronger, more athletic guys but Walton along with Russell is pretty much viewed as the smartest defender in the middle and was essentially the orchestrator for his entire defense.
All I said was "3 of the great post defenders to play the game". I'd put all three in their primes (which this draft is all about) in the top 8ish post defenders ever which given how many great players in that role there have been in NBA history, it qualifies them to me as "3 of the great post defenders to play the game". Could've used slightly different wording I suppose but I really don't think what I said was all that objectionable.
All-NBA Second Team.
All-NBA Defensive First Team.
Michael Jordan, SG, Chicago Bulls, 1990-91 : 31.5 pts/6.0 reb/5.5 ast/2.7 stl/1.0 blk/53.9% FG/60.5% TS/31.6 PER in just 37.0 mpg.
Michael won the MVP, made the All-NBA first team and Defensive First Team, won the scoring title, finished third in DPOY voting, won the championship, and earned a Finals MVP while putting up historical, dominant numbers. Maybe not his best stats wise season but you could see in 91 that he was just on another level.
Those four seasons, between ’85 and ’89, were perhaps the most transcendent stretch in Wilkins’ career. ‘Nique strung together four ridiculously fruitful seasons (averaging 30.3, 29.0, 30.7, 26.2 ppg), but the cream of the crop was the ’87-’88 campaign. We still remember Nique’s showdown with Michael Jordan that year in the Slam Dunk contest (“Let me tell you, the two contests I won were great, but that one in Chicago…I was inventin’ ways to go up.”). We remember Nique scoring 30 points in 29 minutes in the All-Star Game. And we will never forget Nique’s shootout with Larry Bird in Game Seven of the Eastern Conference Semifinals, when Nique hit 19-of-23 for 47 points, though Bird and his 34 points eked out a two-point win for the Celtics.
In his magical first season with the Suns, he won the NBA MVP while leading Phoenix to the league’s best record of 62-20 and a berth in the 1993 NBA Finals. The Suns lost to Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls in a memorable six-game series. He led the team in scoring (25.6 points), rebounding (12.2 rpg) and total assists (a career high 385). He ranked fifth in the NBA in scoring and sixth in rebounding and finished with career-best number from three-point range (67-for-220, .305).
Malone was an absolute force in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and his final season in Houston was certainly a memorable one as he took home his second MVP award. He finished first in the NBA in rebounding and second in scoring, and also led the league in minutes played as he shouldered a heavy burden on both ends of the floor for an otherwise lackluster Rockets squad.
During his remarkable season, he set personal bests in points in a game (53) and a season (31.1 PPG), and also set a league record for offensive rebounds in a game (21).
Rick Barry, SF, San Francisco Warriors, 1966-67 : 35.6 ppg. 9.6 rebounds, 3.6 assists
In his second season, 1966-67, Barry hit for a career-high 2,775 points and led the league in scoring with an average of 35.6 points (5 points better than runner-up Oscar Robertson). Only Wilt Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor had previously averaged more, and only Michael Jordan did better over the next quarter century. On Dec. 6, 1966 against the New York Knicks, Barry set an NBA record for most free throws made in one quarter when he canned 14, a record later matched by others. He made the second appearance of his eight NBA All-Star selections and won the game's MVP Award in 1967 after pouring in 38 points. At season's end, Barry earned a second consecutive selection to the All-NBA First Team.
The Warriors won the Western Division that year and took Chamberlain's great Philadelphia 76ers team to six games in the NBA Finals before losing. Barry matched Chamberlain's playoff record set five-years earlier by launching 48 shots in Game 3. He made 22 of them, to share the all-time Finals record with Baylor. His 55 points in the game are the second-highest total in NBA Finals history, tied later by Jordan in 1993 and trailing only Baylor's 61 for the Lakers in 1962. Barry also scored 43 and 44 points in two other games of the series. His 40.8 scoring average for the series was an NBA Finals record until Jordan scored 41.0 per game in the 1993 championship series.
Elvin Hayes, F/C, Capital Bullets, 1974-75 : Hayes pumped in 21.4 ppg and put together a career year on the boards, averaging a league-best 18.1 rebounds. He also led the NBA in minutes played, averaging 44.5, and ranked fifth in blocked shots with a career-best 2.96 per contest, earning the first of two straight selections to the NBA All-Defensive Second Team.
Walt Frazier, PG, New York Knicks, 1969-70 : Early in the 1969-70 season, the Knicks won 18 consecutive games, setting a new NBA record, and went on to a league-best 60-22 mark in the regular season. The team's unprecedented emphasis on defense, led by Frazier, showed in two remarkable statistics: the Knicks achieved the best record in the NBA with their leading scorer, Reed, ranking only 15th in the league; and their defense allowed just 105.9 points per game, nearly 6 points better than their closest rival. Frazier averaged 20.9 points and 8.2 assists for the season. He made the first of seven successive All-Star appearances and earned the first of four selections to the All-NBA First Team.
I know my writeup sucks ass compared to yours guys but I think this team work together perfectly.
A winner will be decided when each person who took part in this draft sends their own personal top 5 rankings to me via PM after everyone has posted their teams and explanations. A first place vote will receive 5 points, a second place vote will receive 4 points, third place 3, etc. I'll then post the overall rankings.
Send commie your ballots by tomorrow. Winner will be announced on Wednesday.
PG: Jason Kidd
SG: Kobe Bryant
SF: Grant Hill
PF: Chris Webber
C: Shaquille O'Neal
BN: Derrick Rose
BN: Chris Mullin
BN: Ben Wallace
This team starts in and ends with two guys, Kobe and Shaq. Completely dominant in their time together in LA, they never had the opportunity to play with each other in their prime. Shaq never played with a matured Kobe, a Kobe who was dead set on winning and who took the leadership responsibility seriously. Both were MVP in their respective selected seasons, so teaming those versions up was too good to pass up for me. With Shaq collapsing defenses every time he touches the ball and Kobe being scoring threat he has it, they would be a nightmare for any team in any era.
Jason Kidd is the glue of this team. Regarded as one of the best PG to ever lace them up, his numbers were never off the charts, but his combination of Basketball IQ, court vision and leadership is up there with Magic and CP3. His ability as a rebounder for his position is just icing on the cake. Kidd in the 2001-2002 season took a VERY mediocre Nets team to the finals. Imagine what he could have done with the players on this team.
People seem to forget what well rounded player Grant Hill was in his early years. He was Lebron James before Lebron James… well without the freakish athleticism and ridiculous physique. But his ability to score, pass and rebound is the perfect compliment to the bigger names on the roster.
Working in the high-post is 2000-2001 Chris Webber. His passing ability for a big man is legendary, but his scoring and rebounding during this season can’t be overlooked. Let’s not forget, before the injuries his leaping ability was up there aswell. Either it is finding a slashing Kobe and Hill, or providing another low post offensive presence next to Shaq, Webber inclusion on my team really completed the starting 5 for me.
If he deserved the MVP or not, Derrick Rose in the 10-11 seasons was spectacular. A combo guard at heart, he is the perfect sixth man for this roster.
If my starting 5 has any weakness it’s a deadeye perimeter shooter and defensive post presence. So why not pick two players who excel at those roles? Mullin shot a ridiculous 51% FG and 45% 3P% in the 1992-1993 season. He would make any defense pay if they decide to double team Shaq or Kobe, or he can just move along the perimeter and wait for Kidd or Webber to find him.
Calling Ben Wallace a “defensive anchor” would be an understatement. His value to those Pistons teams was immeasurable. Unbelievable rebounder and defender, he could spell Shaq or Webber in defensive situations.
All in all, I picked the players I picked on one measurement. I actually saw them play. I saw how dominant they were in their prime. And like another persons said, I truly believe these players could play at a high-level in any era.
PG Chris Paul, New Orleans Hornets, 2007-08
SG Ray Allen, Milwaukee Bucks, 2000-01
SF Paul Pierce, Boston Celtics, 2007-08
PF Kevin Garnett, Minnesota Timberwolves, 2003-04
C David Robinson, San Antonio Spurs, 1994-95
G Chauncey Billups, Detroit Pistons, 2005-06
F Shawn Marion, Phoenix Suns, 2005-06
C Dikembe Mutombo, Denver Nuggets, 1993-94
6 Points (3 votes, highest vote; #4)
PG Oscar Robertson, Cincinnati Royals 1961-1962
SG Tracy McGrady, Orlando Magic 2002-03
SF Julius Erving, Philadelphia 76ers 1980-81
PF Shawn Kemp, Seattle Supersonics 1995-96
C Bill Russell, Boston Celtics 1961-1962
G Allen Iverson, Philadelphia 76ers 2000-01
F/C Buck Williams, New Jersey Nets 1986-87
F Bernard King, New York Knicks 1984-85
6 Points (3 votes, highest vote; #3)
John Stockton, PG, Utah Jazz, 1989-90
Clyde Drexler, SG, Houston Rockets, 1994-95
Larry Bird, SF, Boston Celtics, 1985-86
Dirk Nowitzki, PF, Dallas Mavericks, 2010-11
Wilt Chamberlain, C, Philadelphia 76ers, 1966-67
James Worthy, SF, Los Angeles Lakers, 1987-88
Amare Stoudemire, F/C, Phoenix Suns, 2007-08
Tony Parker, PG, San Antonio Spurs, 2006-07
10 Points (5 votes, highest vote; #4)
Jason Kidd, PG, New Jersey Nets, 2001-02
Kobe Bryant, SG, Los Angeles Lakers, 2007-08
Grant Hill, SF, Detroit Pistons, 1995-96
Chris Webber, PF, Sacramento Kings, 2000-01
Shaquille O'Neal, C, Los Angeles Lakers, 1999-00
Derrick Rose, PG, Chicago Bulls, 2010-11
Chris Mullin, SF, Golden State Warriors, 1992-93
Ben Wallace, C, Detoit Pistons, 2002-03
20 Points (6 votes, highest vote; #1, number one votes; 2)
Penny Hardaway, SG, Orlando Magic, 1995-96
Dwyane Wade, SG, Miami Heat, 2005-06
Kevin Durant, SF, Oklahoma City Thunder, 2012-13
Tim Duncan, PF/C, San Antonio Spurs, 2002-03
Bill Walton, C, Portland Trailblazers, 1976-77,
Dennis Rodman, PF, Detroit Pistons, 1991-92
Elgin Baylor, SF, Los Angeles Lakers, 1961-62
Tiny Archibald, PG, Kansas City Kings, 1972-73
21 Points (6 votes, highest vote; #1, number one votes; 2)
Isiah Thomas, PG, Detroit Pistons, 1984-85
Jerry West, SG, Los Angeles Lakers, 1964-65
Scottie Pippen, SF, Chicago Bulls, 1991-92
LeBron James, F, Miami Heat, 2012-13
Hakeem Olajuwon, C, Houston Rockets, 1993-94
Patrick Ewing, C, New York Knicks, 1989-90
Steve Nash, PG, Phoenix Suns, 2006-07
George Gervin, G/F, San Antonio Spurs, 1977-78
26 Points (7 votes, highest vote; #2)
Magic Johnson, PG, Los Angeles Lakers, 1986-87
Reggie Miller, SG, Indiana Pacers, 1993-94
John Havlicek, SF, Boston Celtics, 1973-74
Karl Malone, PF, Utah Jazz, 1996-97
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, C, Milwaukee Bucks, 1970-71
Manu Ginobili, G, San Antonio Spurs, 2007-08
Glen Rice, SF, Charlotte Hornets, 1996-97
Kevin McHale, PF, Boston Celtics, 1986-87
29 Points (7 votes, highest vote; #1, number one votes; 4)
Gary Payton, PG, Seattle SuperSonics, 1995-96
Michael Jordan, SG, Chicago Bulls, 1990-91
Dominique Wilkins, SF, Atlanta Hawks, 1987-88
Charles Barkley, PF, Phoenix Suns, 1992-93
Moses Malone, C, Houston Rockets, 1981-82
Walt Frazier, PG, New York Knicks, 1969-70
Rick Barry, SF, San Francisco Warriors, 1966-67
Elvin Hayes, F/C, Capital Bullets, 1974-75