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Old 07-28-2013, 09:30 PM    (permalink
mightytitan9
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[/b]


I agree about the D. I also think the O is going to explode with the additions of Jake Long, Jared Cook, Tavon Austin and Stedmon Bailey.
You mean overrated Jake Long, overpaid Jared Cook and overdrafted Tavon Austin?
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Thanks for that insight. I don't see a problem putting the coaches in order as long as you aren't projecting them over ones that have actually coach, but I guess everyone just likes to criticize and nobody wants to put up their own list.
You're welcome. I don't really care what you have a problem with, I was just pointing out to others mostly, should they possibly think your opinion on coaches who literally have nothing to judge them off of is worth any merit at all. But I guess everyone just likes to have any opinion even if there's nothing to back it up with.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:43 PM    (permalink
mightytitan9
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You're welcome. I don't really care what you have a problem with, I was just pointing out to others mostly, should they possibly think your opinion on coaches who literally have nothing to judge them off of is worth any merit at all. But I guess everyone just likes to have any opinion even if there's nothing to back it up with.
ESPN and NFL.com can rank first year coaches, so can I.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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ESPN and NFL.com can rank first year coaches, so can I.
Of course you can. On the same level, most of the people commenting on those lists tell them how worthless they are. That's how this works.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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You mean overrated Jake Long, overpaid Jared Cook and overdrafted Tavon Austin?


Not quite. The healthy Jake Long, the mis-used Jared Cook and the soon to be star Tavon Austin
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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Not quite. The healthy Jake Long, the mis-used Jared Cook and the soon to be star Tavon Austin
Oh, must have gotten them confused
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:51 AM    (permalink
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ok sounds fun


1. Jim Harbaugh - innovative, passionate, loved by his players, and turned around the 49er franchise and is turning them into a dynasty

2. Bellichick - cant argue with his track record and adaptability, but definitely wondering if he is losing his touch

3. John Harbaugh - shares many great qualities with his brother, but is more under control and calm. has had the benefit of being teamed up with Ozzie Newsome and Ray Lewis.

4. Mike McCarthy - has built the Packers into a powerhouse with steady command as they have gone through much adversity throughout his tenure

5. Mike Smith - changed the culture in Atlanta and has built a winning program built on smart football and hard work.

6. Tom Coughlin - cant argue with 2 superbowls. hardass who gets the most out of his players.

7. Rex Ryan - dont care what anyone says, this guy is a great coach, players love him and respond to him, and he is one of the brightest defensive minds in football (unlike his brother). the team whiffed on Mark Sanchez and Santonio Holmes and just traded away their best player, its not fair to blame all these struggles on Ryan.

8. Mike Tomlin - superbowls and steady success but was dealt a winning hand

9. Jeff Fisher - ever heard of a Jeff Fisher team that didnt play hard?

10. Sean Payton - incredible mind for football, can he restore his reputation and character?

11. Andy Reid - clearly needed a change of scenery, but his success in Philly is something to be marveled about. cant help but wonder if he should have taken some time off after the personal tragedies he has dealt with.

12. Leslie Frazier - highly respected guy by all who deserves a lot of credit for turning thing around in Minnesota after Childress ran the team into the ground

13. John Fox - always makes sure his team plays tough football, but is sometimes too old school and conservative. not a great game manager.

14. Pete Carroll - amazing talent evaluator, questionable character, how well can he guide the team through adverse situations?

15. Chuck Pagano - great defensive mind who players really respond to. Will be interested to see whats next for him

16. Mike Shanahan - great offensive mind, has an incredible talent with his whole ZBS and getting no-name running backs to have huge years and is great with the bootleg offense, but is kind of a douche. Has huge ego and extreme overconfidence and makes some really bad decisions. He may never live down leaving Robert Griffin in that playoff game.

17. Gary Kubiak - has certainly been good, but can he take the Texans to the next level. There is certainly enough talent in the building.

18. Bruce Arians - great offensive mind, had great success in pittsburgh as OC, served as head coach last year under very difficult situation and handled it flawlessly. excited to see what he does in Arizona

19. Marvin Lewis - called this guy a hack for years and couldn't believe he didnt get fired but he is now one of the leagues longest-tenured coaches and seems to have turned things around in Cincinatti

20. Joe Philbin - took me by surprise and got that Dolphin team to achieve much more than expected last year. can he follow it up and win the division after the front office spent big $$?

21. Marc Trestman - great offensive mind, excited to see what he does with the Bears offense, which seemed very misguided in recent years

22. Mike Munchak -I like the direction he is taking the program after rebooting post-jeff fisher

23. Gus Bradley - young and passionate coach who did a great job on D in Seattle, can he turn things around in Jacksonville? it will be tough, but have to respect him for taking on the challenge

24. Jason Garret - coaching for the Cowboys is a tough job, but he has weathered the storm. Hes made some bad decisions and needs to win now, but he probably gets more flak than he deserves

25. Chip Kelly - incredibly innovative offensive mind, demands a lot from his players. very interested to see how he transitions to the NFL. he could be much higher on this list quickly.

26. Dennis Allen - dealing with impossible situation, but is a high-character guy who has this team playing with a lot more disicipline. He needs more than 2 years to turn this ship around though. Will ownership give him the time he needs?

27. Ron Rivera - The Panthers have played hard under his leadership, but haven't been able to put together wins. Not sure if he is head coaching material or best as just a coordinator.

28. Jim Schwartz - got Detroit to the playoffs for the first time in a long time, but needs to keep his head in tough situations and set an example for his highly undisciplined team. He could be fired if things dont go well this year. There is enough talent on this team that there is no excuse for a 4-12 season.

29. Rob Chudinski - Did some good things in Carolina with Cam Newton, can he get the Browns to start winning games?

30. Doug Marrone - exciting guy and Im very interested to see what he puts out on the field. very unproven though

30. Greg Schiano - hyper-competitive and smart but doesnt seem to command respect of his players. Will be fired this year and someone else will come in and lead the Bucs to the playoffs in 2014.

32. Mike McCoy - not saying anything bad about him, but unsure how much credit to give him for the offensive success in Denver. Will have to prove himself.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:00 AM    (permalink
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Not to come off like a homer here in the Harbaugh/Belichick debate, however for those who are saying that BB has been slow to turn over the defense need to consider this:

The Pats average draft slot in the first round is approximately low to mid 20s over the past 10 years. Last year they had one player on their roster who was drafted in the top 15 picks of any draft (Mayo)

The 49ers on the other hand last year had at least 9 players on their team who were drafted in the top half of the first round.

Yes these players still need coached and developed but the bigger task with having that many high draft picks is being able to keep them which is why someone like Jed York should get a lot of credit.

Bear in mind, people talk as though the Pats have plummeted in recent years, however they are consistently going deep in the playoffs. It's tough to win the Superbowl, however since the Pats won 3 in 4 years it seems they are being held to a different standard
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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Belichick is number 1, this isnt even debatable. Everything descendency said on the last page is true. BB is a step ahead of everyone and has been for years on end.

Part of winning super bowls is luck. they got very unlucky the first time against the giants with the great escape and the INT dropped by samuel, and got bested the second time by a team that played better when it counted (bad luck with gronk hurt didnt help either).

as for Coughlin, as a giants fan i just dont think hes this all world coach. The team has been so incredibly inconsistent under him (as they have been my whole life to be fair). You can always count on them for at least one absolute bombshell of a performance to go with a head scratching streak of games where the giants are clearly the more talented team but plays way below their potential.

id take BB, the harbaughs, rex ryan (hes a monster of a d mind, and with that talent on d and an o that already has its crap together? come on), sean payton, mike mccarthy, all over him hands down. i know that saying id take rex over him will get me crap but hed be a very good fit with the O pieces the gmen have in place.

id put TC in the same tier as mike tomlin, pete carroll, shanahan, guys like that that are a push in my mind in the 'whos better' debate.
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Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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I'm not a Mike Smith fan. I think he rides Matt Ryan's ability to give the perception that he's a good HC but he doesn't command his team the way a great HC does. He was a Matt Ryan miracle away from getting fired this season after almost losing to Seattle in the playoffs. Before that he was 0-3 in the playoffs. And against SF they blew a big lead heading into the second half.

He seems to always get outcoached in the 2nd half. Just not a big Smith fan. He's a mediocre coach to me. Good but not great.

And Tomlin...we all know how I feel about Mike Tomlin.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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Belichick is number 1, this isnt even debatable. Everything descendency said on the last page is true. BB is a step ahead of everyone and has been for years on end.

Part of winning super bowls is luck. they got very unlucky the first time against the giants with the great escape and the INT dropped by samuel, and got bested the second time by a team that played better when it counted (bad luck with gronk hurt didnt help either).

as for Coughlin, as a giants fan i just dont think hes this all world coach. The team has been so incredibly inconsistent under him (as they have been my whole life to be fair). You can always count on them for at least one absolute bombshell of a performance to go with a head scratching streak of games where the giants are clearly the more talented team but plays way below their potential.

id take BB, the harbaughs, rex ryan (hes a monster of a d mind, and with that talent on d and an o that already has its crap together? come on), sean payton, mike mccarthy, all over him hands down. i know that saying id take rex over him will get me crap but hed be a very good fit with the O pieces the gmen have in place.

id put TC in the same tier as mike tomlin, pete carroll, shanahan, guys like that that are a push in my mind in the 'whos better' debate.
Coughlin is tough to grade for me. I think he does a lot of things great, and a lot of things poorly.

I think he's a great developer of talent. He knows how to develop young players. I think he's great in the offseason with the draft process. He helps our front office a lot in evaluating players and getting the right guys in here.

I think he's a great manager of the game. He's a great playoff coach. Even in Jacksonville the guy has a pedigree for having success in the playoffs when being an underdog.

I think he's a very good offensive coach. He knows WRs. He's tough, he teaches discipline, he's a motivator, he has a lot of great qualities.

The problems: He delegates way too much to his coordinators, he makes poor choices in picking coordinators, he doesn't know a lick about defense, and he is too loyal to his coordinators and their gameplans.

Give Coughlin a good DC and he's a top 3 coach in the league. If he doesn't have a great DC his warts show. And that's where the inconsistency comes from. Our offense is always good to great, but we won 2 SBs bc our defense got hot at the right time. It's our inconsistency on defense that kills us.

And that's what he needs to correct.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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I'm not a Mike Smith fan. I think he rides Matt Ryan's ability to give the perception that he's a good HC but he doesn't command his team the way a great HC does. He was a Matt Ryan miracle away from getting fired this season after almost losing to Seattle in the playoffs. Before that he was 0-3 in the playoffs. And against SF they blew a big lead heading into the second half.

He seems to always get outcoached in the 2nd half. Just not a big Smith fan. He's a mediocre coach to me. Good but not great.

And Tomlin...we all know how I feel about Mike Tomlin.
: P

When it comes to Smitty I am very bias. He is a good coach, just a shady guy in general. So I can't properly evaluate him without me shaking my head and calling him a scumbag.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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o

7. Rex Ryan - dont care what anyone says, this guy is a great coach, players love him and respond to him, and he is one of the brightest defensive minds in football (unlike his brother). the team whiffed on Mark Sanchez and Santonio Holmes and just traded away their best player, its not fair to blame all these struggles on Ryan.


IDK about #7 but Im glad to know im not the only Rex Ryan believer left.




Also are there any non Ravens fans that think John should be ranked higher then Jim Harbuagh? I just say that because his 5 years w/ at least 1 playoff win is very impressive. Also having the Ravens peak at the right time when they weren't favorites to win in the super bowl is extremely impressive.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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I'm also a Rex fan. I think he's a good coach.

I think John doesn't get the credit he deserves bc he's a ST coach. He's not an X and O guy and those guys tend to get more credit.

John is like Coughlin in the sense that he has a great GM who gets him great talent, and he delegates playcalling and schemes to his coordinators and is more of a manager than a hands on coach with the gameplanning.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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I'm a big John Harbaugh fan and loved the hire at the time. Special teams coaches are always underlooked when looking for head coaches, but that job requires more versatility and roster management than any other. The job of a head coach is mostly a CEO at this point anyway, unless you have full control of your offense, so I'd like to see more special teams guys given a shot.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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I think more special teams guys deserve a shot as well. They work with both offensive and defensive players. That versatility helps them when they take on that CEO role.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:58 PM    (permalink
mightytitan9
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9. Jeff Fisher - ever heard of a Jeff Fisher team that didnt play hard?
.
Yes, the 2009 Titans that started the season 0-6, including a 59 to nothing loss against the Patriots after going 13-3 the season before.

He really should have been fired at that point, but winning 8 of the last 10 saved him his job.

VY was even playing decent at that point, and was even playing fairly well in 2010 as well.

Fisher just hated him beyond belief.

Not picking on ya, just saw that comment and it kind of made me laugh. That's exactly where I put him though and I think that's the perfect spot for him.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Yes, the 2009 Titans that started the season 0-6, including a 59 to nothing loss against the Patriots after going 13-3 the season before.

He really should have been fired at that point, but winning 8 of the last 10 saved him his job.

VY was even playing decent at that point, and was even playing fairly well in 2010 as well.

Fisher just hated him beyond belief.

Not picking on ya, just saw that comment and it kind of made me laugh. That's exactly where I put him though and I think that's the perfect spot for him.
yeah he had reached the end of his rope after about 15 years or whatever his tenure there was. but that team played hard year year in year out with him...but yeah I think the whole Vince Young thing ultimately ended Fishers career in tennessee - I feel like he was at odds with the owner over it and even lost his team a little bit. But then he goes to STL and instantly changes the culture there - they overachieved big time last year.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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IDK about #7 but Im glad to know im not the only Rex Ryan believer left.




Also are there any non Ravens fans that think John should be ranked higher then Jim Harbuagh? I just say that because his 5 years w/ at least 1 playoff win is very impressive. Also having the Ravens peak at the right time when they weren't favorites to win in the super bowl is extremely impressive.
its tough...in the head to head matchup, John has owned his little brother. I think John is superior game manager and is able to handle his emotions better, but Jim is more innovative and passionate...But more than anything, I look at John Harbaugh walking into a winning franchise with Ozzie and Ray and Ed and being put into a great situation to succeed, whereas Jim went into a team that had been in an abyss and instantly changed the culture and turned them into contenders..

harbaugh bros are crazy though. each have made the playoffs and won a playoff game in every year of their coaching careers. nuts.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Not trying to split hairs or be a homer, but Jim also inherited one very talented roster when he took over in San Fran. He is doing a hell of a job, but he also had a great core of players to build his foundation on. Also, the 49ers FO have been doing an equally outstanding job of building that roster the last couple of seasons.
yeah i thought about that but somehow the niners sucked ass year after year with that talented core of players....until jim harbaugh showed up

the Ravens were a strong team year in year out for quite a long time before John Harbaugh took over. he did take them to the next level though. they started making deep playoffs runs when he took over.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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yeah he had reached the end of his rope after about 15 years or whatever his tenure there was. but that team played hard year year in year out with him...but yeah I think the whole Vince Young thing ultimately ended Fishers career in tennessee - I feel like he was at odds with the owner over it and even lost his team a little bit. But then he goes to STL and instantly changes the culture there - they overachieved big time last year.
It's really just difficult for coaches to stay at the same place for so long and experience success and build a team and keep players motivated.

We saw it with Andy Reid last year, and with Shanahan in his last years with Denver.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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yeah i thought about that but somehow the niners sucked ass year after year with that talented core of players....until jim harbaugh showed up

the Ravens were a strong team year in year out for quite a long time before John Harbaugh took over. he did take them to the next level though. they started making deep playoffs runs when he took over.
He got them a QB, whether that was Ozzie getting the right man or John and the coaching staff developing him I'll never know. But the difference is that Brian Billick could never get the QB and John did.
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Old 07-29-2013, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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I'm still rather bored until the preseason actually starts, so was curious everyones rankings of the Head Coaches currently in the NFL. It's a lot harder than it seems, so if you want to bash it too much please make your own list to share with others. Here goes mine (reasoning for top 10)

1) Bill Belichick, Patriots- Love him or hate him he's far and above the next coach on this list. Although I feel he (or maybe the people under him) have slipped in recent years, he's still the best.

2) Jim Harbaugh, 49ers - Innovative and gets the most out of his players. He's aready one of the best in his short lived career.

3) John Harbaugh, Ravens - Although he edged out his brother in the big one, I've still been more impressed with Jim in his short career than John. John is still one of the best, but he inherited a rather good roster and Newsome always stocks the shelves.

4) Mike Shanahan, Redskins - I think I may have him higher than most, but he always seems to get the best out of his players and injuries to star players only slow him down so much.

5) Tom Coughlin, Giants - On a year to year basis you don't know what you're going to get with the Giants, perhaps Coughlin is losing some of his motivation, but he's still one of the best.

6) Mike McCarthy, Packers - A personal favorite of mine, he almost always seems to have his team prepared and ready to play.

7) Pete Carrol, Seahawks - He runs a great scheme with great personnel. A little higher than some more proven guys, but I think he's on his way.

8) Sean Payton, Saints - I think Paytons evolved from his early days that made you question him, but I still don't know if he always does what's best for the team.

9) Jeff Fisher, Rams - Right now, he's one of the best. The Rams are going to be set up for major disappointing seasons, only to surprise everyone later. But right now, Fisher keeps them in nearly every game.

10) Mike Tomlin, Steelers - I struggled with where to place Tomlin because he inherited a good team, was able to retain a DC that almost guarantees a top 5-10 D every season and already had a good QB. Sure he's coached well, but he inherited a lot.

11) Andy Reid, Chiefs

12) Marvin Lewis, Bengals

13) Mike Smith, Falcons

14) Gary Kubiak, Texans

15) John Fox, Broncos

16) Greg Schiano, Buccaneers

17) Jason Garrett, Cowboys

18) Rex Ryan, Jets

19) Leslie Frazier, Vikings

20) Joe Philbin, Dolphins

21) Mike Munchak, Titans

22) Chuck Pagano, Colts

23) Ron Rivera, Panthers

24) Jim Schwartz, Lions

25) Bruce Arians, Cardinals

26) Dennis Allen, Raiders

27) Marc Trestman, Bears

28) Chip Kelly, Eagles

29) Mike McCoy, Chargers

30) Rob Chudzinski, Browns

31) Gus Bradley, Jaguars

32) Doug Marrone, Bills
I'm a bit curious as to why you are so down on Fisher and the Rams. Is it because he had some rough seasons in Tennessee and never won the Super Bowl? Are you upset because he left? I am being sincere and not trying to be sarcastic or throw jabs. It would just seem to me that you would have warmer feeling towards the guy that was your head coach for so long and won a lot of games for you.

And, for what it's worth, I think Bud Adams should shoulder a lot of the blame for the Titans' struggles during Fisher's tenure. From what I have read (and I don't claim to be the authority on this because I am not a Titans fan) Fisher never wanted Young in the first place; it has been suggested that Adams insisted on drafting Young and playing him as a personal vendetta against the state of Texas, despite the fact that Fisher thought Kerry Collins was the better QB. Would you mind enlightening me as to what really went down, or at least what the public perception there was?

I almost certainly have a biased opinion on the issue, since Fisher is now my team's HC and he has finally brought excitement and legitimacy that has not been here in so long. I am pretty much of the opinion that it was Adams' constant meddling in team affairs that were above his football knowledge that were more to blame for the Titans' failures than Fisher's ineptitude to lead his team to the Championship.
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Old 07-29-2013, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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I don't buy Jeff Fisher's crap about not wanting Young, bc guess what?

He wanted Leinart instead. So Fisher can suck a fat one. Bc Young was still infinitely better than Matt Leinart.
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