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Old 07-26-2013, 09:12 AM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
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Default Profootballfocus Page of Fame: Defensive Ends

Profootballfocus.com recently ran an interesting feature called their "page of fame", where they highlight their top-rated single-season performances for each position. They've done this for every position in the NFL.

Their ranking of the top 4-3 DE seasons is pretty interesting:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...efensive-ends/

Cameron Wake had the single highest-rated season of any 4-3 DE since Profootballfocus has been grading the NFL at a stunning +53.8. He's probably the best DE or OLB in the NFL right now.

Trent Cole had a run in the past few years with some really tremendous years. He's slowed down a bit lately, but there was a time when you could consider him the top 4-3 DE in the game.

Julius Peppers really earned his money with the Bears in 2010. That was one of the few free agent signings that was worthwhile.

Terrell Suggs qualifies as a 4-3 DE because of the way he played in the Ravens defense, and he is consistently great year-in and year-out.

Brandon Graham in 2012 had the #7 ranked DE performance in Profootballfocus.com's history. Amazing that a player with such little recognition played so well - almost historically well.

Similarly amazing is the fact that a much-hyped player like Jason Pierre Paul doesn't even crack the top-20 list in Profootballfocus's history. Graham actually had a better season in 2012 than Pierre Paul has had in 2010, 2011, or 2012.

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Old 07-26-2013, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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You would be a lot wiser to simply make the prediction that Graham will have a true breakout this year and ascend above JPP.

Rather than just posting ultimately irrelevant stats about a guy who played a rotation role on one of the worst defenses in the league.

I'm all for sparking discussion with controversial and unpopular opinions, but it only works if you predict something rather than try to prove a different past than what actually occurred.
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Old 07-27-2013, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:21 PM    (permalink
Eazy Picks
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I have a subscription to PFF and do take a look at their stats, but to me you have to take it with a grain of salt. All these stats are useful, but to go completely off it is ridiculous. You have to mix in film study, because there is a lot of stuff that happens on the field that doesnt go into their grading system. But it seems to me like you put all of this in there just to make a point about JPP who you have some huge grudge against for some reason. I dont care what PFF says, theres no way JPP was worse than the likes of John Abraham, Carlos Dunlap and Jared Allen in 2011. He was playing hurt last year and may be again this year and probably wont be elite again until he gets healthy. But for the record, in 2011, he received a score of +22.4. And in 2012, he scored at 23.2. Now to me, theres no way his 2012 season was better than his 2011 season, which goes back to me taking PFF with a grain of salt. But the point is he ranked extremely high both of the past 2 years even if he didnt make the "page of fame". JPP was also the highest rated run defending 4-3 end last year.

And no, I dont think Cameron Wake just had the best season ever for a defensive end. But he is underrated.

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Old 07-27-2013, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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Was this listed because Brandon Graham is running with the 2nd team?
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Eazy Picks View Post
I have a subscription to PFF and do take a look at their stats, but to me you have to take it with a grain of salt. All these stats are useful, but to go completely off it is ridiculous. You have to mix in film study, because there is a lot of stuff that happens on the field that doesnt go into their grading system. But it seems to me like you put all of this in there just to make a point about JPP who you have some huge grudge against for some reason. I dont care what PFF says, theres no way JPP was worse than the likes of John Abraham, Carlos Dunlap and Jared Allen in 2011. He was playing hurt last year and may be again this year and probably wont be elite again until he gets healthy. But for the record, in 2011, he received a score of +22.4. And in 2012, he scored at 23.2. Now to me, theres no way his 2012 season was better than his 2011 season, which goes back to me taking PFF with a grain of salt. But the point is he ranked extremely high both of the past 2 years even if he didnt make the "page of fame". JPP was also the highest rated run defending 4-3 end last year.

And no, I dont think Cameron Wake just had the best season ever for a defensive end. But he is underrated.
Watt did though.
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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Just let this terrible rehashed argument die. Graham can't even earn a starting spot. "History" refers to since 2008. Eazy has this handled. Stats are only part of the picture.
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Watt did though.
no argument here. probly the best defensive season in history. If not for Peterson going nearly breaking the rushing record and carrying his team on his back to the playoffs, my MVP vote woulda gone to Watt. The mere fact that were talking about a 3-4 DE as an MVP candidate says just how ridiculous Watt was last season.
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Old 07-27-2013, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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no argument here. probly the best defensive season in history. If not for Peterson going nearly breaking the rushing record and carrying his team on his back to the playoffs, my MVP vote woulda gone to Watt. The mere fact that were talking about a 3-4 DE as an MVP candidate says just how ridiculous Watt was last season.
Not to diminish what Watt did, because it was an all-time great season. I just think that the utilization of a 3-4 DE has been so non-flashy this decade that he really stood out.

But then I think back to how Bruce Smith devastated the league in a 3-4.
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:14 AM    (permalink
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I'm iffy to lump praise on Watt solely for being a 3-4 DE. His season was legendary and it was historic, but I'm not going to pretend he was holding the point like in a 2 gap scheme. Wade lets him attack up field and shoot gaps. The 3-4 designation really doesn't matter. He plays outside shade of the guard on a lot of his sacks.

Watt is just waaaaay too athletic for the guards he lines up against in passing situations. He feasted on less athletic guards a lot. His motor is insane too. On bunch of sacks, he just kept working and got there.

Watt is the best defender in the league, but the 3-4 part is misleading.
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Old 07-28-2013, 02:16 AM    (permalink
Eazy Picks
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I'm iffy to lump praise on Watt solely for being a 3-4 DE. His season was legendary and it was historic, but I'm not going to pretend he was holding the point like in a 2 gap scheme. Wade lets him attack up field and shoot gaps. The 3-4 designation really doesn't matter. He plays outside shade of the guard on a lot of his sacks.

Watt is just waaaaay too athletic for the guards he lines up against in passing situations. He feasted on less athletic guards a lot. His motor is insane too. On bunch of sacks, he just kept working and got there.

Watt is the best defender in the league, but the 3-4 part is misleading.
yes but the point is he is lining up on the inside. I know Phillips doesnt ask him to be a run anchor and just take on blocks like many 3-4 ends do, but he isn't lining up on the edge to get that outside leverage that you see all the sack leaders get. Think of all the other great pass-rushers now and throughout history, they are either 4-3 ends (Reggie White, Michael Strahan, Simeon Rice, Dwight Freeney, Jared Allen, John Abraham...) or they are outside linebackers who blitz all day (demarcus ware, aldon smith, von miller, lawrence taylor). Ive never heard of a lineman who had to use interior pass-rushing moves that had that kind of production...I guess theres Warren Sapp, Geno Atkins...but even Sapp cannot compare to Watt, who damn near just broke the sack record and is only in his second season, and also has ridiculous productivity outside of that. he had 15 batted passes (hence JJ swatt nickname), 57 tackles outside of his 20 sacks, led the league in stops (solo tackles causing an offensive failure on a play) with 72, and only missed 2 tackles all year. The more I look at the year he had the more I can barely believe it....He has enormous talent and it seems impossible that he could have already peeked in his second season, but it also seems impossible he can play any bettter.

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Old 07-28-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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Brandon Graham in 2012 had the #7 ranked DE performance in Profootballfocus.com's history. Amazing that a player with such little recognition played so well - almost historically well.
Quick question...

How is the 7th best season for a DE since 2008 "playing almost historically well"? Compared to the history of all the NFL, I'm sure the 7th best season in the last 5 years might be top 50 all time.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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biggest troll in nfldc history?
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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I wasnt paying attention at first to see it was since 2008. I was gonna say holy **** the game has become a passing league.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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biggest troll in nfldc history?
Calling Ache/Thumper a troll is a compliment. A good troll get people fighting among each other. Ache we all know is just a PFF fanboy that likes to talk up Eagle players and make over the top predictions.

Kevin Kolb is all i have to say....
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