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Old 09-06-2013, 08:04 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I think Hue got a bad deal in Oakland. He actually made them look competent for the first time in about 14 years. That alone was amazing.

He made one gigantic mistake, which was trading for Palmer. But other than that, I thought Hue was showing promise.

Dennis Allen just looks way in over his head. So does Reggie. When you're rebuilding a team that's been awful for 14 years, you have to establish a winning culture and atmosphere to be successful. His plan is to blow everything up and get worse before you get better. The problem with that mentality is you can lose the team because you didn't inspire confidence in the coaching staff which has a trickle down effect.

You need to change losing culture before you can build a winning program. Completely crippling the team and starting fresh will only allow the guy who follows you (after you get fired for being awful) to come in and take your credit.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:26 AM    (permalink
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I think Hue got a bad deal in Oakland. He actually made them look competent for the first time in about 14 years. That alone was amazing.

He made one gigantic mistake, which was trading for Palmer. But other than that, I thought Hue was showing promise.

Dennis Allen just looks way in over his head. So does Reggie. When you're rebuilding a team that's been awful for 14 years, you have to establish a winning culture and atmosphere to be successful. His plan is to blow everything up and get worse before you get better. The problem with that mentality is you can lose the team because you didn't inspire confidence in the coaching staff which has a trickle down effect.

You need to change losing culture before you can build a winning program. Completely crippling the team and starting fresh will only allow the guy who follows you (after you get fired for being awful) to come in and take your credit.
I can agree with that Jackson was the best Raiders coach of the past decade but he was a god awful GM.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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I can agree with that Jackson was the best Raiders coach of the past decade but he was a god awful GM.
Honestly I'm not familiar with any of his moves other than the Carson trade, which might be one of the worst trades of all time.

I think he deserves another chance as at least an OC somewhere.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I think Hue got a bad deal in Oakland. He actually made them look competent for the first time in about 14 years. That alone was amazing.

He made one gigantic mistake, which was trading for Palmer. But other than that, I thought Hue was showing promise.

Dennis Allen just looks way in over his head. So does Reggie. When you're rebuilding a team that's been awful for 14 years, you have to establish a winning culture and atmosphere to be successful. His plan is to blow everything up and get worse before you get better. The problem with that mentality is you can lose the team because you didn't inspire confidence in the coaching staff which has a trickle down effect.

You need to change losing culture before you can build a winning program. Completely crippling the team and starting fresh will only allow the guy who follows you (after you get fired for being awful) to come in and take your credit.
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I can agree with that Jackson was the best Raiders coach of the past decade but he was a god awful GM.
I can't deny that Hue was a great coach. He got the offense working very well, even though he single handedly lost the Lions game for them with a bone-headed deep throw on 3rd and short with the lead in the 4th.

But he there were 2 things he had working against him.

1) He made 2 absolutely awful trades mid-season 2011, first trading a 5th and a 7th rounder for Aaron Curry and then trading a 1st and 2nd for Carson Palmer. He sent out over half a draft for 2 players who aren't even on the team any more.

2) The moment Al Davis flat lined Hue went for the giant power grab to assert himself and possibly to protect himself. There was a power void and he tried to usurp the throne. You can't do that when someone the ownership is going to the guy's son.
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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A winning culture? With what? Crap overpaid players?
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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You can't say the Carson trade crippled Reggie without also pointing out that Reggie traded TWO draft picks for a backup quarterback. And also drafted a QB with one of his draft picks only to cut him the SAME year.


So that's THREE draft picks dedicated to the qb position by McKenzie that all amounted to nothing while he's trying to rebuild. Sound like a good plan?
Bull ****. A 4th, 5th and 6th round pick in different years is vastly different from a 1st and a 2nd round pick in your first years for a rebuilding team. You know that.

And when you have gone through Marques Tuiasosopo, Andrew Walter, Aaron Brooks, Charlie Frye, Bruce Gradkowski, Josh McCown, Jamarcus Russell and Carson Palmer in the past decade (to name a few) as your starting QBs, you kind of have to just throw a bunch of crap at the wall and see if it sticks.

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And trading back is fine, if you know, you get a player who didn't need to play with a red shirt all of training camp. The guy is a gigantic injury liability. When you draft that high you can't afford to miss and there are some serious concerns with the guy he selected. Can he pan out? Sure, but if he doesn't, he's another terrible mistake. And I'm erring on the side of him not panning out.
I'm so glad you think a guy who hasn't played a single snap of professional football is not going to pan out. What's next, calling a pick a bust before the name card even gets to the commissioner?

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And every draft has talent. It's the job of the GM to find it. Saying there was a lack of talent in this draft is just an excuse for the guy.
Do you know how many Pro Bowlers McKenzie missed out on that were taken after his first selection as an NFL GM? None.

Don't get me this bull crap. You can't fish in a pond that doesn't have fish.

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And he had plenty of choices of HCs. Mike Zimmer is still waiting for a job.
Yeah? Do you think Zimmer would have taken the job knowing the next HC was almost assuredly going to get fired?

Me neither.

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I don't see how anyone can give him a ringing endorsement. So what, he's been on the job for 1.5 years. So? All the evidence in that time span has shown him to be incompetent thus far. It's going to take a lot for him to turn around what he's done.
Who is giving him a ringing endorsement?

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The bottom line is this team is a lot worse now than it was before he took over. He's not made the team better. And his decision making thus far makes me very skeptical that he ever will.
Of course it is. And anyone who saw the talent that took the Raiders to 8-8 in 2010 and 2011 would have known that it would be that way. You were talking about 8 figures to Richard Seymour, Kamerion Wimbley and Tommy Kelly. Seymour is old and broken, Wimbley got cut by the Titans and Tommy Kelly got fat and lazy again. Oh and he's old too.

The cap was getting more and more bloated with absolutely ridiculous contracts to absolutely mediocre players. It had to be stopped so that a proper flow of talent could be established.

The horse that carried the Raiders to their wins in 2010 and 2011 was Darren McFadden. When he was healthy the team was successful. But he can't stay healthy and thus the terrible record.

If he happens to be healthy this year, you could see single-digit losses again. But after seeing him on the field for much of the year last year but lacking the burst of the special DMC we are used to seeing, I question whether or not that will happen at all.

Reggie McKenzie has made bad calls. Greg Knapp as the offensive coordinator and allowing the ZBS to come to Oakland in 2012 was one of the biggest ones. Bergstrom in the 3rd round in 2012 may prove to be another. As well as moving to Wilson and Flynn this offseason.

But Rod Streater looks to be a very good UDFA picked. As do Brice Butler and Andre Holmes. Miles Burris looked very good at LB last year at times and should do better with a real LB corps around him.

McKenzie showed the ability to wheel and deal and multiply picks when he needed to get a youth infusion this year.

He deserves at least 4 or 5 full years to see how the franchise is moving. The bottom line with this rebuild will not be wins and losses from -2 years through the first 2 years. The bottom line will be after 4 years, is the overall direction a positive one? Is the cap in order for necessary moves? Is there a successful youth corps that is growing on both sides of the ball? Is the franchise moving away from making stupid penalties and learning how to play smart football for the first time in 25 years?

This is what McKenzie should be judged on. And 1.5 offseasons and 1 regular season isn't enough to even begin judging him.
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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Many teams have rebounded from a terrible stretch of years with no talent. Those teams tend to nail one or both of two things.

1. Get a franchise QB
2. Stockpile talent with all the high picks.

This is what the Raiders have done with their top picks...

Robert Gallery | Jake Grove | Stuart Schweigert
Fabian Washington | Stanford Routt | Andrew Walter
Michael Huff | Thomas Howard | Paul McQuistan
JaMarcus Russell | Zach Miller | Quentin Moses | Mario Henderson | Johnnie Lee Higgins
Darren McFadden | No 2nd | No 3rd
Darrius Heyward-Bey | Mike Mitchell | Matt Shaughnessy
Rolando McClain | Lamarr Houston | Jared Veldheer
No 1st | Stefen Wisniewski | DeMarcus Van Dyke | Joe Barksdale
No 1st | No 2nd | Tony Bergstrom

Current Starters
On Roster
No longer with team
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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Long time no see Johnnie Lee Higgins.
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:36 AM    (permalink
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Andrew Walter. A poor man's Kerry Collins. Now you know that's bad.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:38 AM    (permalink
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Pryor looks like he has potential guys. I knew picking him up in fantasy football would be a good idea :D

But seriously, I want to see them go read option with Pryor and see what they have there. The guy might actually pan out. His accuracy has improved greatly, he's a major threat with his legs, and he's making progressions. He's improving.

Give the man a chance. I like what I see out of the guy so far. If he can pan out, maaaaaaan, that really changes everything. Having a qb changes everything, the draft becomes easy for the most part once you find that qb of the future.

I hope he pans out.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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I hate Pryor with a passion. Seriously doubt he pans out but I'd bite my tongue and suck it up if he did.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:53 AM    (permalink
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He looked pretty decent yesterday. Give him a chance. What's the worst that could happen?

I see development. Legit development. Not flash in the pan kind of development. You see progression reading, you see that athleticism, you see more accuracy, you see an improved throwing motion, there's been a significant amount of development to his game.

If you build an offense around him, maybe he can pan out. The guy needs reps. Let him grow and see what happens.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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Pryor looks like he has potential guys. I knew picking him up in fantasy football would be a good idea :D

But seriously, I want to see them go read option with Pryor and see what they have there. The guy might actually pan out. His accuracy has improved greatly, he's a major threat with his legs, and he's making progressions. He's improving.

Give the man a chance. I like what I see out of the guy so far. If he can pan out, maaaaaaan, that really changes everything. Having a qb changes everything, the draft becomes easy for the most part once you find that qb of the future.

I hope he pans out.
His accuracy is definitely better and you could see it improve as the game went on. He still has a tendency for dead ducks every once in a while. I was just watching on NFL Sunday Ticket Online, but it looked like an issue with his release point and maybe a footwork issue as the core.

I think they have to give him a full year to see how he develops in the games. That's what he needs moving forward.

Also he needs to take charge more. The huddle was slow a lot. But that's normal for a first time starter too.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:39 AM    (permalink
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His accuracy is definitely better and you could see it improve as the game went on. He still has a tendency for dead ducks every once in a while. I was just watching on NFL Sunday Ticket Online, but it looked like an issue with his release point and maybe a footwork issue as the core.

I think they have to give him a full year to see how he develops in the games. That's what he needs moving forward.

Also he needs to take charge more. The huddle was slow a lot. But that's normal for a first time starter too.
He needs reps. I saw a lot of promise. I think a lot of his issues are very correctable with more reps. There's something there. I know it's early, but I'd be pretty excited about him if I were you. He's got potential.

He needs to start the whole season and just see his development. The guy can play and needs as many reps as he can get. And if he doesn't pan out he doesn't pan out. But if he does...that's HUGE.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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I'm not surprised at Tyler Wilson at all. Dude is a concussion machine. He's had at least 3 *that we know of. Plus he's had other injuries. I never expected anything out of him and wouldn't have drafted him, either. Word was he couldn't digest the playbook, and it sounded like they were blaming the concussions. He's brain is already mashed potatoes.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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I always thought Pryor showed legit NFL potential at Ohio State and I'm glad he's getting his chance
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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I think teams will limit his running ability, and then he makes bad throws. Two horrible interceptions.
He will struggle mightily this year I think, but hey he'll rack up fantasy points with his rushing yards.
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:57 PM    (permalink
Abaddon
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bigbluedefense sure doesn't know very much, does he?

Kudos to nip for trying to help the guy, but he looks like a lost cause to me.
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:17 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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I liked what I saw from Pryor. At least their offense will be fun to watch on a weekly basis.
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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I liked what I saw from Pryor. At least their offense will be fun to watch on a weekly basis.
He'll set them up pretty well to draft Teddy Bridgewater.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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He'll set them up pretty well to draft Teddy Bridgewater.
What I'm saying is - would you rather plod on towards Bridgewater behind Matt Flynn or the exciting-but-unpredictable play of a young, physically-imposing quarterback who can chuck it deep and run like the wind?
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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What I'm saying is - would you rather plod on towards Bridgewater behind Matt Flynn or the exciting-but-unpredictable play of a young, physically-imposing quarterback who can chuck it deep and run like the wind?
What does it matter if the end result is the same? Who's to say if Flynn gets a shot and throws for 300+ yds? Why would that not be exciting?
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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What I'm saying is - would you rather plod on towards Bridgewater behind Matt Flynn or the exciting-but-unpredictable play of a young, physically-imposing quarterback who can chuck it deep and run like the wind?
lol. Pryor + throwing it deep = dead duck every time.

That's one thing that's very different now in Oakland, after cutting Wilson, they have three QBs left with average-to-below average arm strength.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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What does it matter if the end result is the same? Who's to say if Flynn gets a shot and throws for 300+ yds? Why would that not be exciting?
It would be. I just don't think Flynn can do that with what the Raiders have at wide receiver.

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lol. Pryor + throwing it deep = dead duck every time.
I don't think it's quite that bad. I think he has at least the strongest arm on the roster.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Matt McGloin is now the 2nd string QB for the Raiders. Flynn dropped all the way to 3rd string and may even be inactive this Sunday.
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