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View Poll Results: Who will have the greater career?
RG3 6 5.41%
Wilson 12 10.81%
Kaepernick 16 14.41%
Luck 77 69.37%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-09-2013, 07:03 AM    (permalink
Bob Sanders Dreadlock
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Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
Sam Bradford is exactly 5 days older than Colin Kaepernick. He may have been starting earlier, but from a young perspective he's right there wiht them.
We have already seen what Bradford has to far and it has been below average at best. He hasn't made the jump yet. All those other guys have grossly outperformed him he shouldn't even be in the conversation.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:53 AM    (permalink
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Sam Bradford is exactly 5 days older than Colin Kaepernick. He may have been starting earlier, but from a young perspective he's right there wiht them.
I don't care how old he is. He has less than a full year of starting experience. Sam Bradford has 3. Why would you base comparison on age if their level of NFL experience is vastly different?
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:17 AM    (permalink
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Luck and Kaep were the only options IMHO. I went with Luck as his style of play will give him plenty of longevity. Niners certainly have the MUCH better chance of winning a SB in the near future though.

Wilson is alone on the next tier just behind the above two.

I would place Cam Newton and RGIII on the next tier but there is a gap between the top 3 and this tier.

If people are bringing in Bradford I'd put him at a tier below Newton/RGIII.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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I don't care how old he is. He has less than a full year of starting experience. Sam Bradford has 3. Why would you base comparison on age if their level of NFL experience is vastly different?
I don't personally believe that Bradford should be on the list, but the starting experience is a rather arbitrary cutoff line. If Kaepernick and Bradford have are the same age they've likely been primarily focusing on improving their play as a QB for the same amount of time.

For example Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years before becoming a starter, whereas Eli Manning played in his rookie season. Eli struggled quite a bit out of the gate, whereas Rodgers was a great QB from the moment he started. Does it necessarily make sense to consider Rodgers a young QB at 25-26 when he began starting whereas Eli by your method would have been a proven average guy? Staying for your senior year, and sitting for a year in your first year have a tangible impact on improving your overall game as does starting from day 1.

I'm not crazy about Bradford because of his average tools and hesitance to go downfield, but I don't think he should necessarily be excluded from the young gun conversation on the sole basis of the fact that he has an extra year or two of NFL starting experience.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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I don't personally believe that Bradford should be on the list, but the starting experience is a rather arbitrary cutoff line. If Kaepernick and Bradford have are the same age they've likely been primarily focusing on improving their play as a QB for the same amount of time.

For example Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years before becoming a starter, whereas Eli Manning played in his rookie season. Eli struggled quite a bit out of the gate, whereas Rodgers was a great QB from the moment he started. Does it necessarily make sense to consider Rodgers a young QB at 25-26 when he began starting whereas Eli by your method would have been a proven average guy? Staying for your senior year, and sitting for a year in your first year have a tangible impact on improving your overall game as does starting from day 1.

I'm not crazy about Bradford because of his average tools and hesitance to go downfield, but I don't think he should necessarily be excluded from the young gun conversation on the sole basis of the fact that he has an extra year or two of NFL starting experience.
I guess we can agree to disagree on this one. Number of years starting for an NFL team at QB is about the least arbitrary thing I can think of in this situation.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:31 AM    (permalink
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I guess we can agree to disagree on this one. Number of years starting for an NFL team at QB is about the least arbitrary thing I can think of in this situation.
Maybe arbitrary is the wrong word, but it doesn't make sense to me to consider one guy a developing product while the other is a finished product when they've been working on the same things for the same amount of time.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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Bradford has potential, according to some. I like the guy.
But he's done nothing to be worthy of this group of 4 guys. Not even close.

Newton has much more validity to be in this group, but he fails to measure up to any of the other 4 either.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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It's not all about what you've done. Bradford's a smart and cerebral QB who was going to take some time to really master the NFL, but when he did he had the instincts in the pocket, the quick release, the pinpoint precision and sense for the passing game to really be in command. But unlike other similar QBs like Peyton, Ryan or even luck he didn't get a support cast until this season. And so far he tore up a very good Arizona defense to drive his team back for the win when he had to. That's the type of performance I expect from him this season and so far so good. If he does that he absolutely puts himself in the discussion with these other young QBs, especially if he can lead them to the playoffs.
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:56 AM    (permalink
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Maybe arbitrary is the wrong word, but it doesn't make sense to me to consider one guy a developing product while the other is a finished product when they've been working on the same things for the same amount of time.
Developing? From below average to mediocre? He has been around long enough to see what he has to offer.
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:03 AM    (permalink
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Developing? From below average to mediocre? He has been around long enough to see what he has to offer.
Congrats, you missed the point entirely.
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:17 AM    (permalink
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I don't have a horse in this race; but in other sports, analytics has shown that age matters a whole hell of a lot. In some cases, it can be a better predictor than experience or production.

That may or may not apply to the NFL, because the NFL has so many more variables.
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:33 AM    (permalink
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I don't have a horse in this race; but in other sports, analytics has shown that age matters a whole hell of a lot. In some cases, it can be a better predictor than experience or production.

That may or may not apply to the NFL, because the NFL has so many more variables.
It makes sense. You have to figure one guy may have an extra 500 or so professional attempts, but in the grand scheme of the massive amount of physical and mental reps they're taking as part of their collegiate and professional development, they're really not that far apart from an experience standpoint. Brees looked worse than Vick his first few years, Manning looked worse than Roethlisburger, and Stafford looked worse than Sanchez initially. People develop at different intervals, and just because 2 guys are 25 and one has 3 years of experience while the other has 1 doesn't necessarily mean that the guy with 3 years doesn't have as much room to get better as the guy who has 1 year.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Congrats, you missed the point entirely.
Actually your entire point just sucked. They haven't been working on it the same time. Bradford has been in the pros longer and has already been surpassed by all those guys in one year. He has had 3 years and has only managed below average. Bradford has shown the same as he was in college and that is a guy that can't go deep. He regularly finishes at the bottom or near the bottom in yards per attempt. You are right though Sam Bradford does have room to improve because he is awful.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Actually your entire point just sucked. They haven't been working on it the same time. Bradford has been in the pros longer and has already been surpassed by all those guys in one year. He has had 3 years and has only managed below average. Bradford has shown the same as he was in college and that is a guy that can't go deep. He regularly finishes at the bottom or near the bottom in yards per attempt. You are right though Sam Bradford does have room to improve because he is awful.
Which are all essentially things that I said if you had bothered to read instead of just spouting off. The point from the get-go is that a youth perspective based exclusively on professional game experience rather than age is a faulty one. Bradford isn't done developing because he wasn't a finished product in the league as a 24 year old 3rd year pro with a terrible supporting cast.

Players who are the same age and who played major college football have been working primarily to make themselves a better QB for a similar amount of time. Just because one left a year early and broke in as a starter doesn't mean they've hit their ceiling and the other one hasn't just because they hit the ground running earlier.

You need to separate the player from the point.
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Old 09-10-2013, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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Which are all essentially things that I said if you had bothered to read instead of just spouting off. The point from the get-go is that a youth perspective based exclusively on professional game experience rather than age is a faulty one. Bradford isn't done developing because he wasn't a finished product in the league as a 24 year old 3rd year pro with a terrible supporting cast.

Players who are the same age and who played major college football have been working primarily to make themselves a better QB for a similar amount of time. Just because one left a year early and broke in as a starter doesn't mean they've hit their ceiling and the other one hasn't just because they hit the ground running earlier.

You need to separate the player from the point.
So what are you trying to say?
That Bradford is better than these other 4 guys based on what you think he might be capable of?
These guys have already accomplished things Bradford never will.

If he does some of them, then he could be part of this discussion.
As of now, he's in the discussion with Josh Freeman, Mark Sanchez, and almost Andy Dalton.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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was cam newton in the last one?

I only say that because Colin is in this one and they were drafted the same year
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:04 AM    (permalink
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Matt Stafford should also be in the conversation he's 25 and the same age as Kaep.
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:34 AM    (permalink
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The point from the get-go is that a youth perspective based exclusively on professional game experience rather than age is a faulty one. Bradford isn't done developing because he wasn't a finished product in the league as a 24 year old 3rd year pro with a terrible supporting cast.
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So what are you trying to say?
That Bradford is better than these other 4 guys based on what you think he might be capable of?
No, that's not what he's saying at all. He's saying that in a conversation about "young guns" you're identifying a certain group of quarterbacks as the topic; the "guns" part obviously refers to quarterbacks, and he's arguing that "young" should refer to a player's age, not his experience in the league. He's not saying that Bradford is better than anyone, but that in terms of his development he should be compared to Colin Kapernick and Russell Wilson, etc., because they are all close together in age.

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These guys have already accomplished things Bradford never will. If he does some of them, then he could be part of this discussion.
As of now, he's in the discussion with Josh Freeman, Mark Sanchez, and almost Andy Dalton.
In your mind, is this thread limited to "star" young quarterbacks, or can it include all young ones? All of those guys still have future potential due to their young ages. A light bulb can go off for someone at any time, and more than any position, a quarterback can stretch his starting career past his physical prime. There are plenty of quarterbacks through history who hit their stride at 30, and for pretty much anyone named here that's another 5 seasons to develop. Anything can happen, and each of these guys has an opportunity to succeed because they're NFL starters. And they're young. Young guns. What makes the sport interesting is in not really knowing who's going to succeed until the end of the season. Why limit the conversation to players who've already earned formal accolades?
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:24 AM    (permalink
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Because players never have surprising break out years. Every season the same guys who got hyped the season before deserve hype...
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:35 AM    (permalink
Grizzlegom
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I voted Luck but just wanted to say Tannehill!
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/po...ising-qb-stars

thought this analysis was interesting

Quote:
Accuracy
Kaepernick has missed (over or underthrown) on 12 percent of his passes since the start of 2012, which is best in this group and the entire league.

QB Accuracy - 2012-13
Miss pct Avg Throw Dist.
Colin Kaepernick 12% 9.9
Russell Wilson 13% 9.0
Robert Griffin III 15% 8.1
Andrew Luck 20% 10.1<<
Cam Newton 21% 8.8
>>Deepest in league

Kaepernick’s accuracy is even more impressive when considering his deep average throw distance. His average pass travels 9.9 yards downfield, second-highest among 39 quarterbacks with at least 100 attempts since Week 1 of 2012.

Wilson has been excellent as well, missing on 13 percent of passes with an average throw distance of 9.0 yards downfield.

Kaepernick, Wilson and Eli Manning are the only quarterbacks in the league with an off-target percentage that is less than 20 percent and an average throw depth beyond 9.0 yards downfield.

Accuracy is not Newton’s statistical strength. Newton has missed on 21 percent of his throws, the only quarterback of the five above 20 percent.

Five of the nine players ranked below Newton are no longer starting, and two more (Josh Freeman and Blaine Gabbert) are in danger of losing their jobs
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Bradford has potential, according to some. I like the guy.
But he's done nothing to be worthy of this group of 4 guys. Not even close.

Newton has much more validity to be in this group, but he fails to measure up to any of the other 4 either.
Bradford was 2-1-1 against the two superpowers (Seattle and San Francisco) so there is that.
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:06 PM    (permalink
Borat
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Voted for Luck. Hope to hell it's Kaep though.
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
Bradford was 2-1-1 against the two superpowers (Seattle and San Francisco) so there is that.
That is that!
Good points. Wins trump everything (not everything, but that is the bottom line) in the end....
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Hey...where's the Terrelle Pryor option? :D
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No offense, but your Raiders draft sucks.
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