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Old 09-19-2013, 07:39 PM    (permalink
Naga114
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Originally Posted by Scotty D View Post
I'm surprised the other recent Alabama RB Mark Ingram wasn't traded first. Hell, Browns should send a mid round pick to NO for him.
If there's someone dumb enough to trade for Mark Ingram, he's absolutly welcome to give us anything, a backup longsnapper would be more valuable than him.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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I want to see Ingram go somewhere and be the main guy. NO can ruin RBs.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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It's not like Reggie Bush has proven his role in New Orleans to be wrong. He's still seems like the guy who has a few great games every year and struggles to stay healthy the rest of the time.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scotty D View Post
I want to see Ingram go somewhere and be the main guy. NO can ruin RBs.
Me too. Ingram was a favorite of mine since I first saw him as a freshman at Alabama. He's just a really old-school sort of runner, and his strengths aren't really what the Saints value in their running backs. Cleveland might, oddly, be a good sort of place for him, because they'd be forced to feed it to him.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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Me too. Ingram was a favorite of mine since I first saw him as a freshman at Alabama. He's just a really old-school sort of runner, and his strengths aren't really what the Saints value in their running backs. Cleveland might, oddly, be a good sort of place for him, because they'd be forced to feed it to him.
This type of phrasing to describe someone is the worst. Do you mean he's super slow and tries to be powerful? That seems about right.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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it's just my favorite circular argument ever. someone wants to suggest that (and i'm not pointing fingers) joe thomas is an elite LT. but then, trent richardson can't run, because his crappy LT can't ever open even a single hole. but he's actually elite, so trent richardson must suck. but he doesn't suck, so... ad infinitum, ad absurdum.

which all ignores the fact that brandon weeden is a terrific draft pick because he's nfl ready and has at least 6 years of being elite.
Just because they have a good LT and C, and a RB who could be really good, or may just be fine, doesn't mean that offense doesn't still suck with Weeden and 3 other awful lineman.

I'd love to see the giants Shaun O'hara things up again and sign Mack next summer despite how much cleveland have sucked.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
This type of phrasing to describe someone is the worst. Do you mean he's super slow and tries to be powerful? That seems about right.
If you aren't fast, you'd better be powerful. Ingram is actually neither.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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It's too late now.
Meh, there's a handful of people who you've just gotta laugh at and move past that lead every thread down the drain at some point, but the NFL forum has been a lot worse before.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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If there's someone dumb enough to trade for Mark Ingram, he's absolutly welcome to give us anything, a backup longsnapper would be more valuable than him.
Giants should be all over that.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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If you aren't fast, you'd better be powerful. Ingram is actually neither.
Which is DeAngelo Williams? You can be a valuable and effective RB if he have good balance and vision and can block/catch/hold onto the ball, not saying Ingram can do those things, as I don't watch teh saints' too often and when I do it's Brees and that passing game that draw my entire focus, but RBs can be very useful without being fast or powerful.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Which is DeAngelo Williams? You can be a valuable and effective RB if he have good balance and vision and can block/catch/hold onto the ball, not saying Ingram can do those things, as I don't watch teh saints' too often and when I do it's Brees and that passing game that draw my entire focus, but RBs can be very useful without being fast or powerful.
Ingram has no vision at all. He's worthless and I'd just cut him if the saints couldn't find someone dumb enough to trade a later rounder for him
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Which is DeAngelo Williams? You can be a valuable and effective RB if he have good balance and vision and can block/catch/hold onto the ball, not saying Ingram can do those things, as I don't watch teh saints' too often and when I do it's Brees and that passing game that draw my entire focus, but RBs can be very useful without being fast or powerful.
DeAngelo is extremely quick once he gets a burst through the hole, just look at his big run in week one (or last week, whichever). Ingram doesn't really do anything.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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DeAngelo Williams ran a 4.45 at his pro day and has numerous 60+ yard runs throughout his career. He qualified as fast.

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Old 09-19-2013, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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it's just my favorite circular argument ever. someone wants to suggest that (and i'm not pointing fingers) joe thomas is an elite LT. but then, trent richardson can't run, because his crappy LT can't ever open even a single hole. but he's actually elite, so trent richardson must suck. but he doesn't suck, so... ad infinitum, ad absurdum.

which all ignores the fact that brandon weeden is a terrific draft pick because he's nfl ready and has at least 6 years of being elite.
Yeah, but who are the other 3 guys on that line? Just because you have a left tackle and a center doesn't mean you have a good line. It just means you have a good left tackle and a good center.

The whole right side of the line is ******, and the LG is ******. The whole right side of that line has been ****** forever, too. It's ALWAYS been a problem that they've refused to address.

We'll just go from the Joe Thomas years on... 2007: Hank Fraley C, Seth McKinney RG (passable, I'll give them that), Kevin Shaffer RT (AWFUL!). 2008: Insert Rex Hadnot for McKinney (downgraded and still running Fraley & Shaffer out there). 2009: Alex Mack C, Pork Chop RG, St. Clair RT - solid line, and not surprisingly was good enough for 8th best rushing team in the NFL despite no passing game. 2010: same, but a lot of regression. 2011: lost Steinbach, replaced by Pinkston (awful), Lauvao replaced Pork Chop (awful), Pashos replaced St. Clair (bad). 2012: John Greco new LG, Lauvao new RG, Mitchell Schwartz new RT (all awful). 2013: Cousins replaced Lauvao (wtf are they doing?).
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Does Trent Richardson remind anyone else of Edgerrin James. I feel like they have similar running styles and skill sets. Its kind of fitting that he ended up Indy w/ Luck. The Colts drafted Peyton no. 1 in 99, and then got Edge the next year, and now the Colts are doing something very similar by grabbing Richardson. Now they just need to get a franchise LT, as Castonzo couldnt hold tarik glenn's jock strap.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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i didn't, so i think we're ok there.



i didn't mention anything about their offense.



so those two guys are incapable of blocking anyone, or ever creating a hole? or is it that they *can* block the guy across from them, but somehow the other three guys are so bad, their backups would be better and no one's noticed, and that's the only reason trent can't run?



so they can't run left? come on.
are you seriously trying to say that if a team has a good LT and a bunch of crappy OL around him, they can just run behind him every time and it will work? You gotta be kidding me. First off, it would be incredibly obvious and teams would catch on fast. Second, the whole line has to do its job. There are 11 guys on defense, the LT can only block one. Last, the running game is affected by the rest of the offense. If defenses dont respect the passing game, they will pack the box and the back wont have time to throw. Look at the SF-SEA game last week, the Seahawks stuck Sherman on Anquan Boldin and packed the box all game, and even though the 49ers have an amazing OL, they couldnt get Frank Gore going.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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This type of phrasing to describe someone is the worst. Do you mean he's super slow and tries to be powerful? That seems about right.
It was vague, but he runs with persistence and stamina, high effort and keeps his legs moving after contact. Those are more important traits when being fed the ball 25 times a game than when you're part of a three-man rotation and get 8 carries. Being slow and lacking power has nothing to do with what era a player is playing in, but we are now in an era where most teams are more focused on producing big plays with their offense (with speed), and we all know what he ran at the combine. I don't think Ingram is too slow or too weak to play in the NFL by any means, it's just that New Orleans, obviously, is an extremely pass-heavy offense and the runners who have the most success there are the ones who have skills relevant to the passing game, which again, is not Ingram's forte.

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Old 09-19-2013, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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Mark Ingram isn't a great fit on offenses that try to get yards.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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...I can tell you what's gonna happen. The Jags are gonna get the #1 pick and not put it up for sale b/c they need a QB badly, and the Browns are gonna have the #2 pick and not be able to trade up for Teddy at #1. And we have no need for Clowney with a loaded unit of Kruger/Sheard/Mingo/Groves at pass rusher.

I agree with others who believe there's 3-4 QBs in the upcoming draft worth taking in the top 5. It's not Bridgewater or bust.

The Browns are going to come out of the 2014 draft with a QB prospect 10x better than Weeden.
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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I agree with others who believe there's 3-4 QBs in the upcoming draft worth taking in the top 5. It's not Bridgewater or bust.

The Browns are going to come out of the 2014 draft with a QB prospect 10x better than Weeden.
So what you're saying is Ryan Nassib+giants 1st round pick for Clowney?
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i'm not saying that at all. please re-read what i've posted.



i agree.
not really sure what youre talking about, or where the sarcasm is coming from.

the guy said that the right side of the line was terrible, and your response was that they should be able to just run left.
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:12 AM    (permalink
DcmRulz
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I agree with others who believe there's 3-4 QBs in the upcoming draft worth taking in the top 5. It's not Bridgewater or bust.

The Browns are going to come out of the 2014 draft with a QB prospect 10x better than Weeden.
this is cleveland. with their luck, Mariota and Hundley decide to stay in school, and Indy makes the playoffs.

Then Cleveland decides that you don't pass on a franchise talent like Clowney, he goes #2 over Boyd, and they start talking themselves into McCarron or Manziel with that other first rounder.
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Old 09-20-2013, 02:27 AM    (permalink
Mufasa
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Cleveland and Manziel seems like too perfect of a failure to not happen.
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Old 09-20-2013, 02:33 AM    (permalink
Jcn92
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Fired executive who drafted player disagrees that player should've been traded.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:09 AM    (permalink
niel89
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I agree with others who believe there's 3-4 QBs in the upcoming draft worth taking in the top 5. It's not Bridgewater or bust.

The Browns are going to come out of the 2014 draft with a QB prospect 10x better than Weeden.
I think it is a bit early do have any real idea how the draft QBs shake out. Guys will stay back and some guys will fall off during the season and during the post season testing. Saying there are 3 or 4 top 5 worthy QBs seems to be overly optimistic. There is still a good chance there isn't a worth QB for the Browns to draft in their spot or move up to draft.
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