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Old 09-20-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
BallerT1215
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Are you saying that because of what Calvin just did to him?? Because at least he was trying to cover Calvin 1 on 1.
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Old 09-20-2013, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Sherman is the best imo
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Old 09-20-2013, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Sherman is the best imo
I second that
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Old 09-20-2013, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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I'd go Sherman and Haden as 1a and 1b.
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Old 09-20-2013, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mufasa View Post
Is he really though? I don't think I've ever seen him not ranked in the top 5, and he's almost always in the top 3.


Unless you're talking about being underrated by the average fan in real life, but that doesn't count because they don't know anything about anything.
If you ever wander over to the Browns message board, not on the main site, you will find the old timers always bitching that Haden isn't elite and really not that good of a player etc.

It's ******* absurd. He's easily the best player on our roster, and like you said, the average fan hardly even acknowledges him. This team without Haden last year was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad.
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Old 09-20-2013, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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Revis is best. His hype has turned people off but it's him. Brady agrees.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BallerT1215 View Post
Are you saying that because of what Calvin just did to him?? Because at least he was trying to cover Calvin 1 on 1.
Calvin wasn't the only one. He's just not a shut down corner yet. He can be one day sure, but he just gives up too many yards.

Peterson's hype train is unjustified. Yeah he physically looks like the best CB in the game. But he's not the best CB in the game. Not even top 3.

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Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
Revis is best. His hype has turned people off but it's him. Brady agrees.
Yes. Revis is hands down the best, I honestly think people say he isn't just to be a hipster and be different, or bc they don't believe in his knee. Bc other than that, there's really no way he isn't the best. He's just on a different level from anyone else, and I firmly believe he's the best CB we've seen since Deion Sanders. And if he keeps it up could one day surpass Deion.

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Sherman is the best imo
Sherman is great, but he's 3 on my list for one simple reason: Haden doesn't have Earl Thomas back there to clean up his mess.

That's the thing we overlook with Sherman. He's got the best ballhawk in the game behind him, and when you know you have that guy up top, you can be more aggressive.

Still great, but I give Haden the nod bc he's just as much of a shut down guy as Sherman without the benefit of having a guy like Earl behind him.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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The thing with Revis is the one WR that always made plays on him was Stevie Johnson because Stevie is physical with CBs and his route running so maybe I'm a little ignorant on his talent although he was my #1 CB that year coming out of Pitt.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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That's not really true though. Stevie didn't really do much to Revis. Revis has spoiled us so much that if we see Stevie get 60 yards receiving on him it's considered a good day.

When it's really not.

And he's no way near as physical as Dez is and Revis took Dez out too. Held Calvin Johnson to 1 catch for 7 yards. 1 catch. 7 yards.

When Stevie gets 120 and 2 TDs on Revis wake me up. A 60 yard day or a 70 yard day with no TDs isn't beating Revis.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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But as you said - On Revis, that is a great game and with **** QB's throwing him the ball. Stevie constantly made catches on him.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BallerT1215 View Post
But as you said - On Revis, that is a great game and with **** QB's throwing him the ball. Stevie constantly made catches on him.
Right, but if we're going to judge Revis on a different scale from everyone else, doesn't that make him the best by default?

You can't use one scale for Revis and another for everyone else.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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Cards were using Peterson on offense last week. Not sure if a lot of people noticed. He threw a completion and caught a pass. He looked like he could be a pretty good QB. It was fun to watch.
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand the hatred some people have for Ohio. Unless you hate Buckeyes fans for some reason I honestly do not get it one bit. What an odd place to "loathe"
I've spent more time than I'd ever want to in Cleveland when I volunteered at the Cleveland Clinic, and have had to drive through Ohio countless times when going Chicago-Buffalo. Northern Ohio just sucks more and makes sure other suffer when they pass through
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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Say what????
Do they even try his side of the field? I wouldn't.

I'd put Charles Tillman that list too.
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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Richardson might be even worse with the Colts. The Browns have some good offensive lineman (except for the guards), but the Colts are average or worse all along the OL. The one thing that helps is Andrew Luck will cause seven-man boxes instead of eight-man boxes like I assume Richardson faced in Cleveland (because a defense can get away with daring Brandon Weeden to beat them).
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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Right, but if we're going to judge Revis on a different scale from everyone else, doesn't that make him the best by default?

You can't use one scale for Revis and another for everyone else.
Nailed it.
I don't like Revis sometimes because of the whole contract debacle. But Im glad he is on a team I don't hate.

As for Peterson, he has a long way to go. He looks great then looks bad.

I guess it depends on what you want in a CB. Do you want the consistent great coverage and taking a WR away for a game or a guy who could change a game in a heartbeat with a big play but also gives up the same amount right back.

Very few guys are ever super consistent in coverage and make big plays without giving them back.
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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Richardson might be even worse with the Colts. The Browns have some good offensive lineman (except for the guards), but the Colts are average or worse all along the OL. The one thing that helps is Andrew Luck will cause seven-man boxes instead of eight-man boxes like I assume Richardson faced in Cleveland (because a defense can get away with daring Brandon Weeden to beat them).
Richardson won't also have to carry the ball as much. They will use him as a receiver more IMO.

But yeah, not playing with Weeden will be huge.
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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That's not really true though. Stevie didn't really do much to Revis. Revis has spoiled us so much that if we see Stevie get 60 yards receiving on him it's considered a good day.

When it's really not.

And he's no way near as physical as Dez is and Revis took Dez out too. Held Calvin Johnson to 1 catch for 7 yards. 1 catch. 7 yards.

When Stevie gets 120 and 2 TDs on Revis wake me up. A 60 yard day or a 70 yard day with no TDs isn't beating Revis.
What is a good/bad day to you? Week 12 of 2011 Stevie had 8/75/1 on Revis and Week 9 he had 3/85, including a 52 yarder (which would've been a 75 yard touchdown if Brodney Pool didn't make a great tackle).

I do think Revis is the best, but I also think the hype is excessive. All corners get beat some of the time (some obviously much less than others) but a lot of people act like Revis never ever gets beat. Ted Ginn blows by Revis for a 53 yard game-winning touchdown a few years ago and everyone just blows it off. Roddy White beats Richard Sherman in last year's playoffs and that's all you hear about for the next six months when discussing cornerbacks.
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Read an article over at grantland that said "Luck was hit 83 times per Football Outsiders, with second-place Aaron Rodgers closer to the 17th-place quarterback in hits than he was to Luck. The scary thing is that Luck has been hit even more frequently this year: Through two games, Luck has been knocked down 14 times. That puts him on pace for 112 knockdowns."

PredictionMachine.com simulated the 2013 season 50,000 times and earmarked the "improved" Colts for 6.5 wins. That has the makings of a top 10 pick that could improve our line. We could be losing out on Kouandjio/Lewan/Richardson
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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The thing with Revis is the one WR that always made plays on him was Stevie Johnson because Stevie is physical with CBs and his route running so maybe I'm a little ignorant on his talent although he was my #1 CB that year coming out of Pitt.
I don't think an argument based on one exception works when that exception burned the guy you are championing in what was arguably a better performance than he ever had against Revis.
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bengals78 View Post
Nailed it.
I don't like Revis sometimes because of the whole contract debacle. But Im glad he is on a team I don't hate.

As for Peterson, he has a long way to go. He looks great then looks bad.

I guess it depends on what you want in a CB. Do you want the consistent great coverage and taking a WR away for a game or a guy who could change a game in a heartbeat with a big play but also gives up the same amount right back.
i said it when he was drafted: hes a deangelo hall clone.

super athletic player with some spotty fundamentals who will take some big risks and make huge plays one way or the other.
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Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.
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Old 09-20-2013, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-21-2013, 02:08 AM    (permalink
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This is worth it to me. Underwhelming YPC for a rookie season with 2 cracked ribs doesn't bother me. Hell, Tomlinson's rookie YPC were the same as Richardson's. He has a great chance to shine here in Indy.

Plus it makes sense for the Browns too, hopefully they can use their new pick well. Could very well be a rare win/win trade.
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Old 09-21-2013, 02:15 AM    (permalink
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I don't think an argument based on one exception works when that exception burned the guy you are championing in what was arguably a better performance than he ever had against Revis.
Well.....McGee. Tu che.
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Old 09-21-2013, 03:00 AM    (permalink
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Richardson might be even worse with the Colts. The Browns have some good offensive lineman (except for the guards), but the Colts are average or worse all along the OL. The one thing that helps is Andrew Luck will cause seven-man boxes instead of eight-man boxes like I assume Richardson faced in Cleveland (because a defense can get away with daring Brandon Weeden to beat them).
People keep talking about 8 man boxes for Trent Richardson, but that's probably not true this season, as it definitely wasn't last season.

Last season, with the same crappy QB:

RANK---NAME---TEAM---1-7 IN BOX----8+BOX---% OF 8+ IN BOX

1 Frank Gore SF 149 109 42.25%
2 Shonn Greene NYJ 168 108 39.13%
3 Adrian L. Peterson MIN 228 120 34.48%
4 Bilal Powell NYJ 74 36 32.73%
5 DeMarco Murray DAL 111 50 31.06%
6 Ryan Mathews SD 136 48 26.09%
7 Vick Ballard IND 156 55 26.07%
8 Mark Ingram NO 116 40 25.64%
9 Isaac Redman PIT 82 28 25.45%
10 Michael Turner ATL 166 56 25.23%
11 Donald Brown IND 81 27 25.00%
12 Jonathan Dwyer PIT 117 39 25.00%
13 Rashad Jennings JAX 76 25 24.75%
14 Michael Bush CHI 86 28 24.56%
15 Arian Foster HST 267 84 23.93%
16 Steven Jackson SL 197 61 23.64%
* LEAGUE 10130 3069 23.25%
17 Stevan Ridley NE 226 64 22.07%
18 DeAngelo Williams CAR 136 37 21.39%
19 Marshawn Lynch SEA 248 67 21.27%
20 BenJarvus Green-Ellis CIN 220 58 20.86%
21 Alfred Morris WAS 267 68 20.30%
22 Ahmad Bradshaw NYG 177 44 19.91%
23 Felix Jones DAL 89 22 19.82%
24 LaRod Stephens-Howling ARZ 90 20 18.18%
25 Trent Richardson CLE 219 48 17.98%
26 Ray Rice BAL 215 42 16.34%
27 Doug Martin TB 267 52 16.30%
28 Chris D. Johnson TEN 233 43 15.58%
29 Darren McFadden OAK 183 33 15.28%
30 Bernard Pierce BAL 92 16 14.81%
31 Fred Jackson BUF 98 17 14.78%
32 Matt Forte CHI 212 36 14.52%
33 Alex Green GB 116 19 14.07%
34 Reggie Bush MIA 196 31 13.66%
35 Willis McGahee DEN 146 21 12.57%
36 Pierre Thomas NO 92 13 12.38%
37 Jamaal Charles KC 252 33 11.58%
38 C.J. Spiller BUF 184 23 11.11%
39 Knowshon Moreno DEN 124 14 10.14%
40 LeSean McCoy PHI 180 20 10.00%
41 Bryce Brown PHI 105 10 8.70%
42 Mikel Leshoure DET 202 13 6.05%

24 backs faced stacked boxes more than him. He faced them 5% less than the league average. He ran for 3.6 YPC behind the #11 run blocking line. Alabama running backs suck.
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