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Old 10-05-2013, 01:08 AM    (permalink
WCH
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Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
Yeah, that's good stuff. If ESPN replaced even a fraction of it's staff with people who do stuff like that instead of celebrity gossip but with NFL players ********, we would all be much better off.
I like to think that some of these guys will move on to bigger and better things, or at least make enough money from their sites to make it a full-time job. Florio started out as a hobbyist blogger.

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Old 10-05-2013, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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And it's happened in soccer with sites like ZonalMarking and the german language Spielverlagerung being highly tactical blogs that became full time jobs for the people who ran them.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:17 AM    (permalink
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Some of Richardson's decisions with the football just look plain D-U-M-B.
Maybe Trent needs contacts??

If TRich were a little more patient as a runner, I have to believe he'd be able to see in real time how the blocking up front is giving him better options than trying to create holes on his own.
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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Imagine a world where Brian Hoyer doesn't blow his leg out and Trent Richardson really was the next Adrian Peterson.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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At least we got a pick in the early 20s for him. I do still like him a lot and am not rooting for him to fail by any means but at leAst we got something nice for him in return.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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At least we got a pick in the early 20s for him. I do still like him a lot and am not rooting for him to fail by any means but at leAst we got something nice for him in return.
Which you will burn on a 30 year old project QB or something like that.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Which you will burn on a 30 year old project QB or something like that.
That was Holmgren trying to save his job. /fail
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Lombardi hasn't shown that kind of idiocy yet. Not yet.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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If Holmgren was going to gamble on a QB, I'm still surprised he didn't go with Wilson. With his love for Seneca Wallace, I really thought that Holmgren would be the one guy who would ignore the height issue.

I was one of those people who thought Wilson was too short, but too short > too old.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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that last series i really awful. before trent even gets the ball, you can *see* the hole being created and the defenders getting blown out. i can't even imagine it's a case of missing the hole. he had to actually see it and disregard it.

bleh. the more of these i see, the less i think he's capable of turning it around. these are abject failures of common sense (relative to the position), and i don't think that's something you can really coach out of a guy at this point. i wouldn't say never, and it would be interesting to see if things change in indy at all, but man. those are some appallingly bad plays by a guy who has the physical skill to be a fantastic rb.
that's usually the type of thing a guy might only learn by losing his job, or feeling threatened by it.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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If Holmgren was going to gamble on a QB, I'm still surprised he didn't go with Wilson. With his love for Seneca Wallace, I really thought that Holmgren would be the one guy who would ignore the height issue.

I was one of those people who thought Wilson was too short, but too short > too old.
Drafted Colt McCoy, who was also considered to be too short, a bit higher than some would have too. Wilson to Cleveland made a lot of sense. Who knows how it would have turned out, but you've got to figure whoever they would have drafted in the first and Wilson later would have put them in a much better position.

Total captain hindsight though. I didn't like Wilson's starting prospects either.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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You also have to consider Pat Shurmer as head coach at the time. He was an absolutely horrific playcaller and probably would have destroyed Wilson as far as development is concerned.
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Old 10-05-2013, 04:23 PM    (permalink
WCH
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Weeden was always a stupid pick, and his age is 99% of the reason. Other sports have figured out that age matters a whole lot, to the point that people flipped the **** out over Shabazz Muhammad being 20 instead of 19.

With Weeden, his age cohorts are Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith. How freaking good would those guys have been if they could have dropped back down to the NCAA? They would have been gods among men. Their development curve was behind them, and they spent it honing their skills in the NFL. Weeden spent his entire development curve dicking around with baseball and college football. He was a good (though not elite) prospect, for a 22 year old.

Wilson's film was good enough to warrant a top-5 pick, if he had been four inches taller. Weeden's film wasn't good enough to warrant that type of pick even if he were 7 years younger. Wilson's entire development curve was still ahead of him. Weeden's entire development curve was behind him. With Wilson, you could look at him and think "hey, maybe he'll be the first 5'10" guy ever who actually pans out." I wouldn't have taken those odds, but it was within the realm of possibility. With Weeden, there was no good reason to think that he'd pan out.

I just have no idea what Holmgren was thinking.

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Old 10-05-2013, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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I hate him and just want him off the team. I get exhausted reading about him at this point. I don't even really want to watch the games because of him. Now, it's even worse after watching Hoyer play well now I have to revert back to this ******* clown allow the pocket to collapse around him while he doesn't see open receivers.

******* awesome
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Yeah WCH, but if we assume that Weeden would've been a top 5 pick had he been 21, he was a steal that late!
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Old 10-06-2013, 05:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WCH View Post
Weeden was always a stupid pick, and his age is 99% of the reason. Other sports have figured out that age matters a whole lot, to the point that people flipped the **** out over Shabazz Muhammad being 20 instead of 19.

With Weeden, his age cohorts are Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith. How freaking good would those guys have been if they could have dropped back down to the NCAA? They would have been gods among men. Their development curve was behind them, and they spent it honing their skills in the NFL. Weeden spent his entire development curve dicking around with baseball and college football. He was a good (though not elite) prospect, for a 22 year old.

Wilson's film was good enough to warrant a top-5 pick, if he had been four inches taller. Weeden's film wasn't good enough to warrant that type of pick even if he were 7 years younger. Wilson's entire development curve was still ahead of him. Weeden's entire development curve was behind him. With Wilson, you could look at him and think "hey, maybe he'll be the first 5'10" guy ever who actually pans out." I wouldn't have taken those odds, but it was within the realm of possibility. With Weeden, there was no good reason to think that he'd pan out.

I just have no idea what Holmgren was thinking.
I don't agree that a player's development curve is entirely predicated by his age.
Development is directly correlated to actual on the field play. Weeden's age doesn't factor in unless you're trying to project him as a 10 year starter for your franchise.

IMO he was still a first round talent in 2012, whether he was 22 or 29. The gamble was how long, if ever, was it going to take for him to develop at the pro level??
This is where age factors in.
If Weeden is up to speed in a year or 2, you've got a 31 year old starting QB for 4-6 years on the cheap, at which point you can look for his replacement.
Good deal for the Browns.

However if Weeden is 3-5 years from being a solid contributor at QB, it's hard to imagine you get more than 3-4 years of productive play from him.
An 'old' QB if their physical skills haven't eroded is not really a huge negative in my book unless your franchise has committed millions to him over the next several years.

People are unfortunately equating Weeden's age to his not being a very efficient NFL QB when they aren't really related, beyond the fact he's only played 4 years( 3 at Ok St, barely one season for the Browns), of high level football.

What if the light comes on for Weeden at 32??? Is he too old to play??
Of course not.
I think the Browns are bailing on Weeden so quickly in part because of internal organizational anxiety about his age, which is silly to do with a QB.

Unless they think he can't play, which should have nothing to do with how old he is.
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:15 AM    (permalink
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I don't think it's age. I think it's because he sucks. 1 decent game against Buffalo won't convince me otherwise. It's a season and a quarter of him looking like ****. How much more time can you waste on him? He has shown absolutely no improvement under duress, so until he shows he has some balls against the blitz (which he doesn't) teams will keep sending 6 at him and forcing him into idiotic throws.

There's no hope for the guy. He is ******* abysmal -- he is blatantly inaccurate, his pocket awareness is terrible and he holds onto the ball too long because his field vision is ****. Offensive coordinators can't make him see receivers.
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Old 10-06-2013, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Game 3:

D. Heyward-Bey 7.0 YPC
D. Brown 6.2 YPC 1 TD
T. Richardson 3.1 YPC
A. Luck 2.3 YPC

Big game for Trent! Broke the 3.0 YPC mark and had a big 5 yard run on the last drive of the game for the Colts.
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Old 10-06-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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So definitely worth a first round pick.
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Old 10-06-2013, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Game 3:

D. Heyward-Bey 7.0 YPC
D. Brown 6.2 YPC 1 TD
T. Richardson 3.1 YPC
A. Luck 2.3 YPC

Big game for Trent! Broke the 3.0 YPC mark and had a big 5 yard run on the last drive of the game for the Colts.
That's an MVP caliber performance (if the MVP was only comprised of Alabama RBs in the NFL)
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Old 10-06-2013, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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That's an MVP caliber performance (if the MVP was only comprised of Alabama RBs in the NFL)
False, lacy would like a word with you.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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I am withholding my judgement here. I remember giving up on Darren McFadden and then he went off for 1 1/2 seasons before injuries derailed him. He had a lot of the same issues with picking the right holes, making people miss, etc. Not exactly the same issues as they are wildly different styles of runners, but he was dismissed early on as well.
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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TRich looks really bad. He had 56 yards. 20 on a run in the second half that he didn't have anyone around him for the first 18 yards of it. He has no wiggle to make anyone miss. He's a true North/South runner that needs a line to run.

I get that he's country strong will make people hurt for tackling him. As of right now if I was the Colts I'd really hope that Bradshaw can come back. Because he's by far the best back on that team.
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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What if the light comes on for Weeden at 32??? Is he too old to play??
Of course not.
I think the Browns are bailing on Weeden so quickly in part because of internal organizational anxiety about his age, which is silly to do with a QB.

Unless they think he can't play, which should have nothing to do with how old he is.
I would say yes. Actually, I would say that the light won't come on at 32. A handful of guys have broke out in their late 20's or early 30's, but they were all guys who had spent at least half a decade playing professional football, or they were Roger Staubach.

A lot of QBs play well in their 30's, but they've cut their teeth on NFL/CFL/AFL defenses. Usually, the guys who play well in their 30's were also effective NFL players while they were in their 20's.

And back to the main topic, thank god Richardson was traded to the Colts so he wouldn't be held back by that Browns offense.

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Old 10-07-2013, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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.

And back to the main topic, thank god Richardson was traded to the Colts so he wouldn't be held back by that Browns offense.

And this is a joke.
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