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Old 10-07-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
killxswitch
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TRich has some vision problems and maybe some running style problems, that is clear. But for those of you just looking at stat lines, please understand that once again (as everyone on this site should know) YPC doesn't tell the whole story. If you watched the Colts/Seahawks game, you'd know that (just like every other game TRich has played in so far) the majority of TRich's carries are in these ridiculous jumbo/power I formations that allow the defense to stack 8+ in the box. There are zero holes for him to run through in these situations. He gets hit in the backfield and has to break tackles just to net any positive yardage at all.

Our coaches explain this as the desire to get in some "body shots" early to soften the defense and allow the runners to grind the clock late in the game. This kind of worked vs. Seattle as we saw with TRich's improved YPC in the 4th, but a lot of that was a result of his being allowed to run from other non-goaline formations with the defense spread out. I am hoping they'll stop this nonsense soon but they're stubborn.

I don't think after 3 games anyone can definitively say the trade was a bad one for Indy.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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Yeah I'm sure stacking the box against Andrew Luck will be something that defenses do every week.

This argument might have worked in Cleveland but there's no excuse for 3ypc playing with Andrew Luck.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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Yeah I'm sure stacking the box against Andrew Luck will be something that defenses do every week.

This argument might have worked in Cleveland but there's no excuse for 3ypc playing with Andrew Luck.
It might if it is a goaline set on the 40...
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:12 AM    (permalink
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Yeah I'm sure stacking the box against Andrew Luck will be something that defenses do every week.

This argument might have worked in Cleveland but there's no excuse for 3ypc playing with Andrew Luck.
Believe it or don't but that is what's happening and I'm not the only one to comment on it. You're not watching the games or you don't understand what you are seeing. Either way you're talking out of your ass.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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That's a funny excuse for his struggles. In Cleveland last year with a good offensive line he still had troubles, and they didn't use power I formations, especially early this season under Norv where they would spread it out to run it more. Plus Donald Brown and Ahmad Bradshaw in Indy and Montario Hardesty last year in Cleveland didn't have problems looking good behind the same line. It's not like all of the backs are struggling where Richardson has been, and it's extremely obvious he is hesitant in the backfield and misses the holes. It's on him not the scheme or defenses, and he can still improve but great backs and even good backs don't have these problems.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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That's a funny excuse for his struggles. In Cleveland last year with a good offensive line he still had troubles, and they didn't use power I formations, especially early this season under Norv where they would spread it out to run it more. Plus Donald Brown and Ahmad Bradshaw in Indy and Montario Hardesty last year in Cleveland didn't have problems looking good behind the same line. It's not like all of the backs are struggling where Richardson has been, and it's extremely obvious he is hesitant in the backfield and misses the holes. It's on him not the scheme or defenses, and he can still improve but great backs and even good backs don't have these problems.
I am not talking about Cleveland carries. I have not watched any Cleveland football because why the hell would anyone who isn't a Cleveland fan do that. I am not giving you an excuse. I am telling you what has happened. Donald Brown gets like 6 carries a game and they are almost all out of single back or shotgun formations. The few carries he's gotten out of power run formations have failed miserably.

In the 2nd half of the Seattle game TRich finally got some non-jumbo package carries and had 12 attempts for 54 yards. I am not saying he is perfect. His vision is lacking, and he is patient and impatient at the wrong times. He has work to do, and I was very hopeful he could learn from Bradshaw this year. But you can't just call it an excuse when someone tells you what is happening. It's not a "take", or my opinion, or an excuse. It's a statement of fact. Either watch the game and find out yourself or stop talking like you know just because you watched him in Cleveland and looked up stats on the internet.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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The reason defenses allow big runs to Brown out of those formations is not solely because of the formation.

It's also because:

A) Donald Brown is in the backfield.
B) Down and distance.

The coaches know what they're doing. They called a brilliant game last week.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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Speaking of facts, this is all I know.
He was a big disappointment in Cleveland.
He was traded for a first round pick, which, for if you're a runningback, you better produce and be a pro bowl guy that defenses hate seeing get the ball.
He hasn't done jack **** in Indy. Like 3 yards a carry.
If you put any good back in those same formations he's gonna do more than Richardson has done.
El busto. Thanks for the pick, enjoy your average runningback that you can find 3rd rounders any year that can outproduce him.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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I don't know what else to tell you guys. gngpc you saw the game. The gameplan in the 1st half was to trot out extra blockers (leaving TY Hilton on the bench) and to send Richardson crashing into a line with no holes. Regardless of down and distance, 1st and 10 or 3rd and 3, it didn't matter. It isn't hard to defend, 6 OLmen a FB and two TEs means "we are going to run so stack the box." Our offense adjusted at halftime and his YPC went up to 4.5 in the 2nd half.

If Richardson's YPC is still hovering around 3 by the end of the season I will admit I am wrong about him. As I've said, he does have some things to improve on. But I'm not going to say it was a bad trade after three games.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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You may be right. I don't think is never gonna be a 4 ypc back unless he improves a good bit, certainly not this season and I don't think playcalling has that much to do with it. Of course he's better than the 2 or 2.6 or whatever ypc he was doing early against Seattle but it's not like he was taking everything they gave him either I bet. Just no vision, speed, or burst through the hole. Too indecisive and he misses the hole. Bradshaw never had trouble with this in that one game he and Trent played together and split snaps fairly evenly.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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You may be right. I don't think is never gonna be a 4 ypc back unless he improves a good bit, certainly not this season and I don't think playcalling has that much to do with it. Of course he's better than the 2 or 2.6 or whatever ypc he was doing early against Seattle but it's not like he was taking everything they gave him either I bet. Just no vision, speed, or burst through the hole. Too indecisive and he misses the hole. Bradshaw never had trouble with this in that one game he and Trent played together and split snaps fairly evenly.
That is why Bradshaw's injury sucks so bad. He would be a perfect mentor to Richardson. I see TRich's problems as fixable, but they would've been a lot easier to fix with Bradshaw taking half the carries and showing him what to do. He's not going to learn **** from Donald Brown.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Running backs don't need mentoring on how to run. If you think someone needs to teach Richardson how to run, then he's a bust.

Pass protection, routes, hands, yeah sure. Running? No. If he needs to be taught how to run then he's a bust.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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It's tough to teach "vision" and that's where the problem lays with Richardson. And I loved him as a prospect because of his violent running style but we haven't really even seen that out of him. I'd be nervous if I was a Colts fan.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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I don't know what else to tell you guys. gngpc you saw the game. The gameplan in the 1st half was to trot out extra blockers (leaving TY Hilton on the bench) and to send Richardson crashing into a line with no holes. Regardless of down and distance, 1st and 10 or 3rd and 3, it didn't matter. It isn't hard to defend, 6 OLmen a FB and two TEs means "we are going to run so stack the box." Our offense adjusted at halftime and his YPC went up to 4.5 in the 2nd half.

If Richardson's YPC is still hovering around 3 by the end of the season I will admit I am wrong about him. As I've said, he does have some things to improve on. But I'm not going to say it was a bad trade after three games.
Problem is, you haven't seen any of his Cleveland games. I've watched each of his Colts games including every one of his Browns. TR looks like the same guy in Indy then he was in Clev. Doesn't mean the guy's a bust but your always looking for something more. Your argument about formation and guys in the box has been used time and again by many a Browns fan.

There was carry early in the Sea game where he pressed the hole and it was plugged and he seemingly didn't have a speed cut to the outside where he would've been one on one with K.J. Wright. He stayed inside and tackled by Irvin for no gain. Next series he presses the hole again but this time makes a jump cut immediately to the outside but can't outrun the DL chasing from behind. No gain. That's TR in a nutshell.

Honestly even the 20yd yarder he had should have been more imo. He burst into the 2nd level thru a gaping hole and has only E.Thomas coming at him and stumbles into him for the tackle. Thomas is a great safety, yes, but that's a big powerful, shifty dozer with a head of steam coming at him.

Imo, it's already a solid trade for Indy because Bradshaw is out and the Colts are in a playoff hunt but it was a steep price to pay, no question.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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They needed a back worse than they thought yes, if they gave up a mid round pick for him it was solid, but they gave up a first for a guy that is giving them the production of a street free agent back.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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It's tough to teach "vision" and that's where the problem lays with Richardson. And I loved him as a prospect because of his violent running style but we haven't really even seen that out of him. I'd be nervous if I was a Colts fan.
Definitely expected more of this stuff watching him @ Alabama.

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Old 10-09-2013, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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You may be right. I don't think is never gonna be a 4 ypc back unless he improves a good bit, certainly not this season and I don't think playcalling has that much to do with it. Of course he's better than the 2 or 2.6 or whatever ypc he was doing early against Seattle but it's not like he was taking everything they gave him either I bet. Just no vision, speed, or burst through the hole. Too indecisive and he misses the hole. Bradshaw never had trouble with this in that one game he and Trent played together and split snaps fairly evenly.
I'm not trying to excuse him. I don't like the trade very much at all. I would much rather have a shifty guy that can catch out of the backfield and make people miss. All I'm saying is that our offense is not best used running TRich out of a jumbo set. Spread the line of scrimmage out with 3 WR sets and no FB and watch our offense do better running the ball. This doesn't mean TRich is great. We are just setting him up to fail. Moreover, we keep running these plays hoping to justify tossing a 1 for him. It is nonsense.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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Had Grigson given up a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Richardson I'd be totally fine with the trade. Giving up a low 20s 1st rounder in all likelihood seems pretty steep. For whatever reasons though T-Rich has played well for us in the 4th quarter and I'm happy Grigson made the trade looking back at the injury to Bradshaw. In all fairness, I think I'll reserve my final thoughts on the trade till the end of the season. Three games afterwards seems a bit early to call it a bust or hit.
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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FYI expect a big game from Richardson and a new rousing chorus of talking heads re-visiting this trade after this evening.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:02 PM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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Originally Posted by CC.SD View Post
FYI expect a big game from Richardson and a new rousing chorus of talking heads re-visiting this trade after this evening.
I expect a big game from everyone playing on the offensive side of the ball tonight, except Ryan Mathews obviously.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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I just need Phillip Rivers to outscore Danny Woodhead and I'm good.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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And Trent can score too. He's gonna get replaced by Gio in my starting lineup anyway but he can score too.

Build that trade value up Trent.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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I need Woodhead and Wayne to score less than 6 points combined to win...yeah.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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I'm down 3 pints and I have Gates and Luck and he has TY Hilton. I think I got this one. Hopefully... (Sorry Killxswitch)

Regarding Richardson, I don't expect him to have a phenomenal game. Maybe yardage wise, but his average will remain pretty terrible unless we start running put of 3 WR sets. (Then we might see a mediocre 3.8?) I also would like to see Satele benched and McGlynn at center.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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Eddie Lacy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TRich.

Fat boy can bring it.
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