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Old 12-31-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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I hear ya and to be honest I don't know a lot about Roman or Bevell just that the 9ers and Hawks rely on running the ball and their great defenses.
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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What's wrong with running the ball? The idea that you have to pass all day to win in today's NFL is just downright wrong. Sure, the rules have changed to favor quarterbacks and receivers, thus opening up the game, but that doesn't equal success.

For example, the top four teams in terms of percentage of passing plays (Atlanta, Cleveland, Miami and Dallas) all missed the playoffs and two of them were so bad that they're picking ahead of the Bucs in the coming draft. In fact, only one team in the top 10 in terms of percentage of passing plays actually made the playoffs (New Orleans).

Conversely, of the 10 most run-heavy teams, six of them (San Francisco, Seattle, Carolina, Philadelphia, San Diego and Cincinnati) are playoff teams. In addition, three more playoff teams (New England, Green Bay and Kansas City) are in the bottom half of the league in terms of percentage of passing plays.

If you want an offensive stat that can help determine playoff performance, it's points per game. Of the current playoff teams, only Carolina didn't finish in the top half of the league in that stat (18th), but they're still a full 5 PPG better than the Bucs. The Seahawks and Niners beat the Bucs in that category by 8 and 7 PPG, respectively, in this category, so they must be doing something right.
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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To touch on your point LEGACY, I think our team is more built for a pound and ground and play action. Dougie is a pro bowler, James and Rainy shown they can contribute also, big receivers on the outside that can win jump balls and one on one coverage with a QB that can throw deep. Tedford knows how to make use of his Runningbacks the likes of JJ Arington, Lynch, Jahvid Best, etc.

Personally I would like to have Norv Turner as OC but wish in one hand, **** in the other see which one fills up faster
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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The thing that really scares me is if Lovie is going to Cover 2/Tampa 2 or some variation of it, I would feel a lot better with a speed rusher on the outside somewhere. I know we have McCoy up the middle, and by no means am I knocking him but I really can't remember any meaningful sack he had this season other than the one against the Dolphins Oline minus 2 starters.
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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I agree that the Bucs are built around utilizing the run game, but it's not working because:

- The Bucs do not mix up their runs enough. If opposing defenses see the running back touch the ball, they can flood the middle of the line and get a stop 99% of the time. Running up the gut is fine, but you also need to utilize sweeps and tosses to the edge of the field to keep the defense guessing.

- The Bucs run in absolutely stupid situations. It seemed like Sullivan would always call a run on 2nd down no matter what. It's bad enough that teams know where we're going to run (up the middle, every time), but the play calling was often bad enough that even casual fans watching at home can correctly determine whether the Bucs are going to run or pass the vast majority of the time.

- The offensive line is ******* terrible.
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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The thing that really scares me is if Lovie is going to Cover 2/Tampa 2 or some variation of it, I would feel a lot better with a speed rusher on the outside somewhere. I know we have McCoy up the middle, and by no means am I knocking him but I really can't remember any meaningful sack he had this season other than the one against the Dolphins Oline minus 2 starters.
I don't want the Tampa 2 anywhere near Tampa.

Not only do we not have the edge rushers for it, but Mason Foster isn't capable of playing deep zone and we have Revis, who is still one of the best man-corners in the league. Forcing him to play zone is just absolutely stupid.

Besides, NFL teams have figured out how to beat that scheme. Kiffin tried it again in Dallas and they nearly set records for defensive ineptitude this season.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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The thing that really scares me is if Lovie is going to Cover 2/Tampa 2 or some variation of it.
I think Lovie is the ideal guy you want to bring in, he knows how to win in the NFL and he knows the franchise.

Tampa Bay has a lot of good young talent on the team. I actually think there is a lot of potential for Tampa to rebound in a big way next season.

The names being linked with Lovie Smith are also very interesting

Marc Ross as GM (just look at how well Dave Gettleman has done at Carolina).

Jeff Tedford (formerly of University of California) as Offensive Coordinator. Tedford is known as a groomer of quarterbacks.

Lezlie Frazier as Defensive Coordinator. Frazier is the defensive guru that would be ideal. He could well bring some of his former staff with him.

Both Lovie Smith and Lezlie Frazier have a ton of experience with effective 4-3 defenses with Tampa 2 roots.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Both Lovie Smith and Lezlie Frazier have a ton of experience with effective 4-3 defenses with Tampa 2 roots.
The biggest problem with mentioning the Tampa 2 is that the Bucs don't have any players who fit that scheme outside of McCoy and David.

Attempting to reinstall the Tampa 2 would be an absolute disaster.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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Lets wait and see what the guy says before we start the whole we don't have the players for his systems.

Revis is still a top CB playing zone. He's better in man to man, but he can play zone. I'm sure they put a system in place where he can be happy.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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Lets wait and see what the guy says before we start the whole we don't have the players for his systems.

Revis is still a top CB playing zone. He's better in man to man, but he can play zone. I'm sure they put a system in place where he can be happy.
Well, obviously... I didn't say he is going to install the Tampa 2. I only said I don't think it's going to work if he tries.

And, in regards to Revis, I don't care how good of a cornerback he is playing zone. You don't pay a cornerback $16 million a year to play zone defense. You use the money for pass rushers and a guy like Derrick Brooks (who we already have in David).
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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Lovie Smith is hired as TB coach, 4 years with option for 5th

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10...each-agreement

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Old 01-02-2014, 07:41 AM    (permalink
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I don't want the Tampa 2 anywhere near Tampa.

Not only do we not have the edge rushers for it, but Mason Foster isn't capable of playing deep zone and we have Revis, who is still one of the best man-corners in the league. Forcing him to play zone is just absolutely stupid.

Besides, NFL teams have figured out how to beat that scheme. Kiffin tried it again in Dallas and they nearly set records for defensive ineptitude this season.
Tillman made his name for himself by shutting down Megatron... in man coverage. What makes you think Lovie and Rod won't play a lot of man? Revis will tackle, he's versatile, he'd be great in any D... the better question is, do the Bucs want to allot $16 mil to a CB when DE is the biggest problem?

Michael Johnson and Greg Hardy are free agents, Brian Orakpo too. Adding one of these guys would give us an immediate threat on the edge we haven't had since Simeon Rice was with us.
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:43 AM    (permalink
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Well, obviously... I didn't say he is going to install the Tampa 2. I only said I don't think it's going to work if he tries.

And, in regards to Revis, I don't care how good of a cornerback he is playing zone. You don't pay a cornerback $16 million a year to play zone defense. You use the money for pass rushers and a guy like Derrick Brooks (who we already have in David).
Lovie's defenses in Chicago were always formidable and often frightening. The T-2 in Dallas had serious issues because they had injuries and no depth at the two most important places, DL and LB.
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:48 AM    (permalink
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Lovie's defenses in Chicago were always formidable and often frightening. The T-2 in Dallas had serious issues because they had injuries and no depth at the two most important places, DL and LB.
Lovie shy'd away from the strict Tampa two. He mixed a lot of cover 1 and 3 the past 3 seasons in Chicago disguising defenses along with cover 2.
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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Leslie Frazier is the Bucs defensive coordinator

I would expect Alan Williams as the defensive backs coach and Mike Singletary could be in the mix as LB coach

perhaps Rod Marinelli as DL coach


Pick up free agent vikings Jared Allen and Kevin Williams to boost the Defensive line rotation and, with the existing defensive roster, that looks like a very good unit.

You may be able to get Jason Hatcher to follow Marinelli as well

Last edited by Big_Pete : 01-03-2014 at 11:26 PM. Reason: fix typos
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Old 01-04-2014, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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Leslie Frazier is the Bucs defensive coordinator

I would expect Alan Williams as the defensive backs coach and Mike Singletary could be in the mix as LB coach

perhaps Rod Marinelli as DL coach


Pick up free agent vikings Jared Allen and Kevin Williams to boost the Defensive line rotation and, with the existing defensive roster, that looks like a very good unit.

You may be able to get Jason Hatcher to follow Marinelli as well

I wish we kept Byner at RB Coach and Bryan Cox at LBs coach. Those were two gems that stood out and players loved. They were actually very good coaches as well.
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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Awesome. So we picked a coach who's record reads almost identical to a coach that we just fired a couple years ago due to playoff ineptitude, sans Super Bowl win though, and we grew so tired of Schiano, saying that he had no NFL experience, that we went and hired an OC that has zero NFL experience...... then.... amazingly, we hired a DC who just got canned because his defense was ranked 31st AND thought it a good idea to try and save his job by bringing in Josh Freeman.

And now that we've got the employees in place, the Glazers are trying to hire a boss for them all.


Fire them. Fire the damn Glazers.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Just when I was starting to warm up to the idea of Lovie Smith, it's reported that he will have the final say on personnel decisions, which essentially makes any GM the team hires a "Yes" man.

I guess the Glazers forgot what happened the last time they allowed the coach to have that kind of power...
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Old 01-06-2014, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Some people just can't be pleased. So who would the Lovie haters have preferred? I believe he was easily the BCA.
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Old 01-06-2014, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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Just when I was starting to warm up to the idea of Lovie Smith, it's reported that he will have the final say on personnel decisions, which essentially makes any GM the team hires a "Yes" man.

I guess the Glazers forgot what happened the last time they allowed the coach to have that kind of power...
I remember the last time. It is also the last time we didn't get our teeth kicked in on a weekly basis.
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Old 01-06-2014, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Awesome. So we picked a coach who's record reads almost identical to a coach that we just fired a couple years ago due to playoff ineptitude, sans Super Bowl win though, and we grew so tired of Schiano, saying that he had no NFL experience, that we went and hired an OC that has zero NFL experience...... then.... amazingly, we hired a DC who just got canned because his defense was ranked 31st AND thought it a good idea to try and save his job by bringing in Josh Freeman.

And now that we've got the employees in place, the Glazers are trying to hire a boss for them all.


Fire them. Fire the damn Glazers.
It was Rick Spielman that brought Freeman in, not Frazier. I don't think he's a great DC, but he is far better than Sheridan/Schiano.
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:52 PM    (permalink
DeadEagle
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It was Rick Spielman that brought Freeman in, not Frazier.
If that were true, then Frazier would not have felt pressure to start Freeman so soon.


We both know I'm right, as Spielman is still gainfully employed by the Vikings, and Frazier not, as well as now 4 people in the Vikings organization having said that was the last straw that got Frazier canned.
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Old 01-07-2014, 11:15 PM    (permalink
DeadEagle
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Some people just can't be pleased. So who would the Lovie haters have preferred? I believe he was easily the BCA.

He may have been the best beloved retread... but hardly best coach available. And I don't "hate" Lovie. Not at all. He's just no more a winner than his dismal record indicates.


Here are four coaches I'd have looked at hard.....

David Shaw
Darrell Bevell
Pete Carmichael
Rich Bisaccia

..... and done what was needed to get them here, in that order.
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:09 PM    (permalink
kBuc5
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He may have been the best beloved retread... but hardly best coach available. And I don't "hate" Lovie. Not at all. He's just no more a winner than his dismal record indicates.


Here are four coaches I'd have looked at hard.....

David Shaw
Darrell Bevell
Pete Carmichael
Rich Bisaccia

..... and done what was needed to get them here, in that order.
From the Glazers perspective I think it was important to get a guy with Head Coaching expierience who has had success as one. 5 out of 9 seasons he had with the Bears he had a winning record.
I was hoping for a offensive minded coach but Lovie is a big upgrade over what we've had since Gruden.

Last edited by kBuc5 : 01-08-2014 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:51 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
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He may have been the best beloved retread... but hardly best coach available. And I don't "hate" Lovie. Not at all. He's just no more a winner than his dismal record indicates.


Here are four coaches I'd have looked at hard.....

David Shaw
Darrell Bevell
Pete Carmichael
Rich Bisaccia

..... and done what was needed to get them here, in that order.

Shaw has stated multiple times he's not leaving now so no one has even interviewed him bc he's turned away. Carmichael hasn't even been a play caller. He's the puppet behind Payton. I'd rather see him as a playcaller first.

I agree. Bevell was at the top of my wish list as well. Love Basaccia. I wanted him in 2009 when they fired gruden but they screwed the pooch on that one. Wanted him in 2012 as well.

I'm not going to complain about lovie. One of my favorite coaches in the nfl prior to this hire.

I think a year off could do him well. We know the defense will be great. He's putting together a unique but qualified staff.
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