Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-24-2014, 01:14 PM    (permalink
Jomoz (Thumper)
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 275
Reputation: 26881
Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default Jason Pierre-Paul: Bust?

Now that the 2010 draft class is basically almost 5 years in the books, let's take a look back at one of the prominent members of that class and his career arc.

When he was drafted by the Giants in 2010, Jason Pierre Paul was expected to benefit from the presence of Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyiora on the defensive line and become the next great Giant pass rusher.

In 2011, with Tuck and Umenyiora playing at career peaks, Pierre-Paul seemed to really thrive in the absence of attention. As most offensive lines were preoccupied with blocking Tuck and Umenyiora, Pierre-Paul had the benefit of picking and choosing his blocks. He ended the season with a whopping 16.5 sacks, 7 pass deflections, 2 forced fumbles, and 72 tackles.

Clearly after the 2011 season Pierre-Paul looked like a lock to be one of the best defensive players in the league - if not the best player in the league.

Following that season, however, Pierre-Paul has looked anything but that type of player. His 2012 season wasn't bad, with 6.5 sacks, 5 pass deflections, and 43 tackles. But he wasn't the impact defender he appeared to be in 2011. His 2013 and 2014 seasons so far have been extremely mediocre at best. With Tuck and Umenyiora gone, all attention has been shifted to Pierre-Paul, and he is simply not good enough of a player to be "that guy".

So with one stellar season and essentially 4 below-average seasons in the books for Pierre-Paul, and no signs of regaining his 2011 form, is it possible that Jason Pierre-Paul is actually a bust? We've seen "one year wonders" before, either due to flukey seasons or injuries, and it's highly possible that Jason Pierre-Paul is one of these. You can point to his injuries, or you can point to his losing Tuck and Umenyiora, but the fact of the matter is that the production is simply not there and shows no signs of returning.

Everyone went crazy about Pierre-Paul after the 2011 season; could it be that the hype and the praise was way too early and short-sighted? Will we find ourselves relegating Jason Pierre-Paul to nothing more than a footnote in the annals of NFL history?

And we need to heed this lesson in the future; don't overreact to one season and don't hype a player too early in his career, because nothing is guaranteed going into the future.
Jomoz (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 01:22 PM    (permalink
Halsey
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cookeville,TN
Posts: 5,118
Reputation: 667043
Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

__________________

^What I just did to your argument
Halsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 01:25 PM    (permalink
Jomoz (Thumper)
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 275
Reputation: 26881
Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
Yeah that's great that the Giants team won the Super Bowl in 2011 but a Super Bowl ring 3+ years ago does nothing for Jason Pierre Paul's career and the Giants today and going forward into the future.
Jomoz (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 01:32 PM    (permalink
Halsey
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cookeville,TN
Posts: 5,118
Reputation: 667043
Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomoz (Thumper) View Post
a Super Bowl ring 3+ years ago does nothing for Jason Pierre Paul's career
__________________

^What I just did to your argument
Halsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 01:35 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 5,016
Reputation: 1639686
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Turning out to be something other than the single best player at one of the two marquee defensive positions does not make a player a "bust." Getting little-to-nothing out of a high draft pick does. JPP is a mid-first pick who had an All-Pro year, was part of a Super Bowl run and while he isn't putting up the sack totals that had everyone drooling, he's becoming a better run defender and is still going to play in the NFL for a long time. So no, he's not a bust. He's just not the best.
Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 01:35 PM    (permalink
cgf (Rosebud)
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lover by trade, Villain by necessity
Posts: 2,064
Reputation: 1132929
cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Here's a pic of JPP wishing he had won a hypothetical superbowl ring before his back broke:



You can't tell from the pic, but he's saying that he wishes he played for the iggles so he could share in that franchise's long history of success.
__________________
Talkin bought Brodie

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
We've already seen that your love is only capable of destroying.
cgf (Rosebud) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 01:37 PM    (permalink
Jomoz (Thumper)
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 275
Reputation: 26881
Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf (Rosebud) View Post
Here's a pic of JPP wishing he had won a hypothetical superbowl ring before his back broke:



You can't tell from the pic, but they're all saying that they wish they played for iggles so they could share in that franchise's long history of success.
I'm a draft guy, I don't root for a team. Super Bowl wins mean nothing to me. I'm a guy who evaluated Brandon Graham as a much better player than Jason Pierre Paul before the 2010 draft and my evaluation of those two players is what matters to me.

I am on record as saying that Graham will have a better career (either playing for the Eagles or some other team) than Pierre-Paul over the course of the 10+ years they're in the league after being drafted, and I'm pretty confident about that assessment now.
Jomoz (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 01:38 PM    (permalink
Jomoz (Thumper)
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 275
Reputation: 26881
Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
Turning out to be something other than the single best player at one of the two marquee defensive positions does not make a player a "bust." Getting little-to-nothing out of a high draft pick does. JPP is a mid-first pick who had an All-Pro year, was part of a Super Bowl run and while he isn't putting up the sack totals that had everyone drooling, he's becoming a better run defender and is still going to play in the NFL for a long time. So no, he's not a bust. He's just not the best.
He had one great year, and he's basically played at a below-average level as a pass rusher in every other year of his career.

If you want a decent run stuffer, you don't pay him a ton of money or draft him with a first round pick.

If you draft a DE in the top 20 picks and he's nothing more than an above-average run stuffer, then I think you can call him into question as a bust.
Jomoz (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 01:46 PM    (permalink
cgf (Rosebud)
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lover by trade, Villain by necessity
Posts: 2,064
Reputation: 1132929
cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

lol oh thumper. Maybe some day you'll become a fan of a team who are actually capable of winning a superbowl and then you might be able to understand why JPP's all-pro year was so much more important than all of the hypothetical sacks Graham could've gotten if only his co-ordinators stopped trying to force him into a 4-3 or 3-4 front.
__________________
Talkin bought Brodie

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
We've already seen that your love is only capable of destroying.
cgf (Rosebud) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 01:48 PM    (permalink
Jomoz (Thumper)
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 275
Reputation: 26881
Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf (Rosebud) View Post
lol oh thumper. Maybe some day you'll become a fan of a team who are actually capable of winning a superbowl and then you might be able to understand why JPP's all-pro year was so much more important than all of the hypothetical sacks Graham could've gotten if only his co-ordinators stopped trying to force him into a 4-3 or 3-4 front.
Since the end of the 2011 season:

Brandon Graham: 13 sacks, 6 forced fumbles, 67 tackles
Jason Pierre-Paul: 12 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 93 tackles

I thought more sacks and more forced fumbles usually is better, right?

And Graham has played HALF the snaps of Pierre-Paul.

So unless you live in a warped world where "less stats = better player", then you're just delusional if you think Pierre-Paul is a better player in any measure than Graham.
Jomoz (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 01:52 PM    (permalink
cgf (Rosebud)
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lover by trade, Villain by necessity
Posts: 2,064
Reputation: 1132929
cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'm assuming you think that you made a point with that post. I can't for the life of me understand what it is. That Superbowl wins are awesome even if you can't understand just how awesome? That all graham needed for JPP not to blow him away was for JPP to break his back and become a fraction of his former self? That graham still sucks against the run?
__________________
Talkin bought Brodie

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
We've already seen that your love is only capable of destroying.
cgf (Rosebud) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 01:54 PM    (permalink
Jomoz (Thumper)
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 275
Reputation: 26881
Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf (Rosebud) View Post
I'm assuming you think that you made a point with that post. I can't for the life of me understand what it is. That Superbowl wins are awesome even if you can't understand just how awesome? That all graham needed for JPP not to blow him away was for JPP to break his back and become a fraction of his former self? That graham still sucks against the run?
I guess you're kind of slow here so I'll break it down like I'm talking to a toddler:

more sacks = better player.

injuries = no excuse. Graham was injured in his rookie season and missed the entire 2011 season.

super bowl wins = do not matter to draftniks discussing individual players because super bowl wins are a team effort, and we're evaluating individual players.
Jomoz (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 02:06 PM    (permalink
cgf (Rosebud)
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lover by trade, Villain by necessity
Posts: 2,064
Reputation: 1132929
cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

So no, there was no point to your post. Thought so.
__________________
Talkin bought Brodie

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
We've already seen that your love is only capable of destroying.
cgf (Rosebud) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 02:11 PM    (permalink
Jomoz (Thumper)
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 275
Reputation: 26881
Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf (Rosebud) View Post
So no, there was no point to your post. Thought so.
What a clever response full of actual substance that perfectly refutes my point!

It took you 10+ minutes to come up with that? Clearly you have no answer to my argument which is so true you are blinded by the truth of it all.
Jomoz (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 02:11 PM    (permalink
SuperPacker
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: awkward
Posts: 11,399
Reputation: 2356853
SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

OP is right. JPP is definitely a bust. Brandon Graham is more a productive player.
__________________



RIP themaninblack
SuperPacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 02:13 PM    (permalink
TitansCJftw
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 252 represent
Posts: 1,743
Reputation: 1652644
TitansCJftw is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitansCJftw is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitansCJftw is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitansCJftw is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitansCJftw is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitansCJftw is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitansCJftw is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitansCJftw is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitansCJftw is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitansCJftw is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitansCJftw is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

__________________
TitansCJftw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 02:43 PM    (permalink
ImBrotherCain
Moderator
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 11,728
Reputation: 3133441
ImBrotherCain is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ImBrotherCain is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ImBrotherCain is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ImBrotherCain is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ImBrotherCain is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ImBrotherCain is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ImBrotherCain is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ImBrotherCain is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ImBrotherCain is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ImBrotherCain is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ImBrotherCain is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'll commend Thumper on taking this discussion out of the Giants forum unlike the last 3x he tried this.

I do have to wonder what your fixation is though? Even if JPP is a bust why bring it up every single week? Do you just seek the approval of random people on the internet?
__________________
ImBrotherCain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 03:28 PM    (permalink
cgf (Rosebud)
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lover by trade, Villain by necessity
Posts: 2,064
Reputation: 1132929
cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Why would I argue with you thumper? Without JPP the giants don't win that latest superbowl, we all agree with you on that.
__________________
Talkin bought Brodie

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
We've already seen that your love is only capable of destroying.
cgf (Rosebud) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 03:29 PM    (permalink
badgerbacker
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,336
Reputation: 1207655
badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomoz (Thumper) View Post
I guess you're kind of slow here so I'll break it down like I'm talking to a toddler:

more sacks = better player.

injuries = no excuse. Graham was injured in his rookie season and missed the entire 2011 season.

super bowl wins = do not matter to draftniks discussing individual players because super bowl wins are a team effort, and we're evaluating individual players.
Then JPP is the better player. He has more career sacks.
__________________
badgerbacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 03:30 PM    (permalink
Jomoz (Thumper)
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 275
Reputation: 26881
Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jomoz (Thumper) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

We all agree that Brandon Graham is the better played the last 3 years and probably the better player going forward into the future.

We can all give Jason Pierre Paul one magical year in 2011 and just call him a one year wonder. Case closed.
Jomoz (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 03:38 PM    (permalink
badgerbacker
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,336
Reputation: 1207655
badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.badgerbacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I wouldn't agree with that at all.

Other than JPP's 2011, both players have had average careers. I'd say both have been disappointments as far as sustained success, but JPP has at least flashed the ability to be a really special player.
__________________
badgerbacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 03:50 PM    (permalink
DcmRulz
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,239
Reputation: 214753
DcmRulz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DcmRulz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DcmRulz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DcmRulz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DcmRulz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DcmRulz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DcmRulz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DcmRulz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DcmRulz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DcmRulz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DcmRulz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

So JPP has given as much value to his team as Graham has, if you remove that one year where he was a force of nature that helped the Giants win a ring.
DcmRulz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 03:59 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,691
Reputation: 1222489
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

LOL. Why is JPP's career over?? Because the OP said so??

It's a miracle that Pierre Paul has been as productive as he's been with his back issues. But I still he's going to be a starter no matter where he goes if the Giants release him for salary cap reasons.

The weird thing is I think there's a strong possibility he still stays in the division.
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 05:15 PM    (permalink
thenewfeature06
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,426
Reputation: 169153
thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by badgerbacker View Post
I wouldn't agree with that at all.

Other than JPP's 2011, both players have had average careers. I'd say both have been disappointments as far as sustained success, but JPP has at least flashed the ability to be a really special player.
This is pretty much correct.

Graham was far better in college, he was dominant.

I just did not watch enough of USF but I knew he was a freak, Graham was just a man amongst boys in college but in the NFL he couldn't really get consistent. They both have underachieved but JPP has at least been talked about as one of the premier pass rushers for whatever year that was.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLDirtyBirds View Post
Coples is that dude.
Go Amare.

Orioles - Raiders - UNC - Nuggets/Wizards
thenewfeature06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 05:51 PM    (permalink
cgf (Rosebud)
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lover by trade, Villain by necessity
Posts: 2,064
Reputation: 1132929
cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cgf (Rosebud) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
LOL. Why is JPP's career over?? Because the OP said so??

It's a miracle that Pierre Paul has been as productive as he's been with his back issues. But I still he's going to be a starter no matter where he goes if the Giants release him for salary cap reasons.

The weird thing is I think there's a strong possibility he still stays in the division.
JPP's career as a difference maker is over. He can't bend with his back the way it is now and so he's lost all of his athleticism in space. He's become a beast against the run and I could see him filling out and become a really good 5tech, but he's done as a premiere edge guy.

I have a lot of sympathy for others who've had back problems, so I hope JPP turns into a monster again for someone else, but I'm not holding my breath.

He was still crucial to our last SB win so he can't be a bust, but unfortunately we'll never know what he would've done if his career hadn't been prematurely ended.
__________________
Talkin bought Brodie

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
We've already seen that your love is only capable of destroying.
cgf (Rosebud) is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.