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Old 10-28-2013, 02:16 AM    (permalink
7DnBrnc53
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If you think Josh McDaniels or Bill O'Brien "came out of no where", your'e ********. McD spent 9 years under Saban, Belichick/Weis before taking the reigns. Bill O'Brien spent 4 years with New England and had spent 14 years coaching major college football prior to his arrival. Dean Pees had been coaching college ball since 1979 prior to joining the Pats. He was the ******* head coach of Kent State (which has produced a lot of NFL talent) for 6 years prior to becoming the Linebackers coach in 2004. Matt Patricia was with the Pats for 8 years before becoming the DC and spent 8 years as a graduate assistant prior to his time with the Pats. Yeah, all these coaches with decades of experience at various levels are surely coming out of nowhere...

That reviewer is ********, the book surely is ********, and you are ********.
Why don't Belichick's proteges succeed very often when they leave New England, then?

For example, as a Bronco fan, I know how much of a joke Josh McDaniels was.

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LMAO. So because the Patriots played in the AFC East that makes Tom Brady overrated? I guess that makes Phil Sims underrated because he played in the NFC East in the 80's and Montana a fraud because he had to play the Rams, Saints, and Falcons twice a year. Oh and Peyton Manning is a goon for slapping the oh-mighty AFC South all those years.

Let's ignore that fact that Brady has been great in the playoffs not always playing his divisional rivals and has three rings to show for it plus two Super Bowl appearances that wouldn't exist if Bledsoe were still there. The "little help from the refs" bit is one of the worst excuses known to man when trying to detract from a team's success.
Brady has been great in the playoffs? How long ago did he win a ring? Oh, that's right, nine years ago!

And, his last SB trip two years ago only happened because he played the Denver Tebows (who didn't want Tebow taking them to a SB because they wanted him gone) and because of Cundiff and Lee Evans.

Also, those rings wouldn't exist if Belichick wasn't there. Brady probably doesn't win any rings as a starting QB if he went to another team.

As for Montana, I don't think he was a fraud (I think he was a system QB, though), but having at least one cupcake to feast on in the NFC West every year didn't hurt. And, the 49ers didn't play in cold weather too often either back then.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:22 AM    (permalink
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The author of that book does not appear to have any previous writing history, the author published it himself, and the reason I'm learning about this book on a forum is likely because it sucks, is inaccurate, just a ****** book, or all of the above.

Also pretty sure that this guy is trolling and is just a puppet account for Taber.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:31 AM    (permalink
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Why don't Belichick's proteges succeed very often when they leave New England, then?

For example, as a Bronco fan, I know how much of a joke Josh McDaniels was.


Brady has been great in the playoffs? How long ago did he win a ring? Oh, that's right, nine years ago!

And, his last SB trip two years ago only happened because he played the Denver Tebows (who didn't want Tebow taking them to a SB because they wanted him gone) and because of Cundiff and Lee Evans.

Also, those rings wouldn't exist if Belichick wasn't there. Brady probably doesn't win any rings as a starting QB if he went to another team.

As for Montana, I don't think he was a fraud (I think he was a system QB, though), but having at least one cupcake to feast on in the NFC West every year didn't hurt. And, the 49ers didn't play in cold weather too often either back then.
Those coordinators failed because they weren't good head coaches. Great coordinators =/= great head coaches. It's an entirely different approach running a whole team instead of just your offense/defense. They are smart guys but running a full franchise like Belichick is super hard. Heck Romeo was amazing as the Chiefs DC 2 years ago and then fell flat on his face as the HC. It isn't the same job.

Since when is going to 2 super bowls a bad thing. It is really really really ******* hard to even get to the super bowl and fans don't give teams enough credit. Just because a team doesn't win it all doesn't make them equal to the other 30 teams that lost. Success for a team is not just win a super bowl.

If Brady wasn't there I don't think Belichick wins those Super Bowls either. They both work hand in hand. If Brady goes to another team lots of things could have happened hypothetically, but what did happen is they paired together and both have become all time greats.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:33 AM    (permalink
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The author of that book does not appear to have any previous writing history, the author published it himself, and the reason I'm learning about this book on a forum is likely because it sucks, is inaccurate, just a ****** book, or all of the above.

Also pretty sure that this guy is trolling and is just a puppet account for Taber.
Jordan Taber is not this sloppy. All of the reasons he's trying to justify why Tom Brady and the Patriots are overrated or whatever are quite ridiculous beyond belief. Even by Jordan Taber's standards.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:06 AM    (permalink
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What do you mean, "the hell"?

Did you watch yesterday's game?

This is what I'm talking about. An AFC Least team like Miami lays down and dies for NE, with a little help from the refs. Same formula for the last 12 years.

Also, have you ever heard of this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Spygate-Untold.../dp/0985467002

Haven't read it yet, but I plan on getting it. Have seen some great reviews, like this one:

I had always wondered why the media never fully investigated this elaborate and sophisticated cheating scandal....which the Patriots have masterfully orchestrated for years and years. Now I know: there is a $9 Billion/Year business at stake. You know it had to burn at Beli-cheat and his ego to be seen as a second banana to Parcells for so many years - and his petulant, egotistical desire to win at all costs is revealed in factual, rational and logical detail in this very compelling and well researched book. There's nothing worse in competitive sports' than to know that you lost to a team that was playing with a decidedly unfair advantage. As I read this book, among many other shocking pieces of insight that the media never looked into, there were five revelations that spoke volumes to the level of shameless, unethical practices that have run rampant in Foxboro, MA for more than a decade:

1. The insanely abnormal and statistically unheard of "home winning %" the Patriots have in Foxboro since Belichick and Adams arrived.
2. How the Patriots hire virtual unqualified unknowns into Off and Def. Coordinator positions in New England, year after year, where they become "boy wonders" instantly - and then fail miserably when they go to other franchises.
3. The NFL not wanting to interview star witness Matt Walsh - in addition to Goodell having NFL officials "burn and destroy" all the illegal tapes "on site" at Patriots HQ'ers in Foxboro - rather than bringing them back to NFL HQ'ers for further investigation? Are you kidding me?
4. Even in 2010, 3 years after SpyGate, the Patriots go 14-2 with "neither" an Offensive Coordinator OR a Defensive Coordinator on the staff. Just the Pats "Director of Research" Ernie Adams speaking into Bill Belichick's Headset on Game Day. Completely unheard of in todays NFL.
5. And aside from all the illegal taping over the years, which is clearly documented in the book, the 2nd radio frequency, completely illegal, going into Brady's helmet, right before the snap, and/or during the play, so he gets alerted to step up in the pocket right before he gets crushed by a blindside blitz.....or know where an open receiver will be based on the defensive signals obtained.

It's just sickening that a franchise can cheat so deceptively for so many years....and alll they ever got was a slap on the wrist. KUDO's to Bryan O'Leary for writing this book. Tremendous read.
Wow, I need to get this book now, because, you know, that review!!! It has turned me around on the whole thing.

I'll try to get to all the points the reviewer has touched on.

1. Since 2000 the Patriots have a home winning % of .779. Since 2000 the Indianapolis Colts have a home winning percentage of .721. Oh, bye the way that also includes their tank job 2 years ago. So, even with the 2011 season the difference is minimal and works out as less than half a game better per season. Hardly insanely abnormal and statistically unheard of if another team was basically doing the same thing in the same timeframe.

2. As has already been pointed out they aren't virtual unknowns at all. Maybe to ignorant fans like this reviewer and possibly yourself they are, but it's not like Belichick picked them out of an economics class and said you're my new offensive coordinator. And as has also been pointed out, being a head coach is much different than being a coordinator.

3. The NFL did those things, not the Patriots. I know what everyone already thinks of this but it proves nothing. The Pats cheated and got punished. Who knows, they could have destroyed evidence because they were afraid it would lead to finding out the whole league was doing it. I know that is a conspiracy theory but it is every bit as circumstancial as anyone else saying it showed more than what the Pats got punished for.

4. You do know that Bill O'Brien was the offenseive playcaller from 2008 and was basically the offensive coordinator without the title, as with Matt Patricia on defense. But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a good theory.

5. Man, I would love to see proof of this, because then you know, we could finally declare the Pats frauds all this time later

I haven't read this book, I don't plan to read this book. It seems as though it is going to be based on what has been reported, rumours of other transgressions and made up conclusions based on those facts.

This probably should have been said to you a long, long time ago. But don't believe everything that is written down.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:50 AM    (permalink
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Brady's certainly doing a damn good job this year of giving this thread some legitimacy.

I would entertain legitimate arguments that Brady is a better quarterback than Romo. "He has 3 ringzzz" is not one of them.
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:30 AM    (permalink
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:23 AM    (permalink
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They only hate you when you're good.
Alex Smith agrees!
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:07 AM    (permalink
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They only hate you when you're good.






I respectfully disagree.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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Alex Smith agrees!
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I respectfully disagree.
In both cases, you can thank the fans for that.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:09 AM    (permalink
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Why. Does. This. Thread. Continue. To. Exist?
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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Didn't want to dig up the Bradford thread so it works here.

Per Grantland:

Quote:
Anyway, let's start here

Player A: 1,687 yards, 60.7% comp, 6.44 YPA, 14/4 TD/INT, 90.9 rating, 48.1 QBR, +8.20 DVOA
Player B: 1,723 yards, 58.3% comp, 7.73 YPA, 8/11 TD/INT, 74.3 rating, 35.8 QBR, -18.8 DVOA
Player C: 1,708 yards, 55.4% comp, 5.99 YPA, 8/5 TD/INT, 75.3 rating, 48.5 QBR, -12.2 DVOA
Player D: 1,741 yards, 60.5% comp, 6.55 YPA, 8/13 TD/INT, 69.5 rating, 32.3 QBR, -20.3 DVOA

If you had to guess the identities of Tom Brady, Sam Bradford, Carson Palmer and Geno Smith based on those 2013 numbers, how would you pick?

(Hold on, I'll give you a few seconds.)

(And a few more.)

(And time!)

Player A: Bradford. Player B: Geno. Player C: Brady. Player D: Palmer.

Hold on, I have to finish vomiting.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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So abaddon got a job writing for grantland now?
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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Brady's leadership intangibles are off the charts compared to Romo.
No way Dez Bryant would have had that tantrum yesterday with Brady, and if he did both he AND Brady would have been toe to toe about to get into it.

Romo's personality is kind of passive which reflects on the entire team's inability to close games when Romo has played well enough to win.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:42 AM    (permalink
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Being passive outwardly isn't a reflection of poor leadership. Different people lead in different ways. We don't know if Romo is ripping him in the meetings or not. Getting in a guy's face on the sideline isn't the right answer either. We just give Brady a pass for it bc it's Brady.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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Romo's going to secure another postseasonless season for the cowgirls when the giants take the division at 7-9
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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Being passive outwardly isn't a reflection of poor leadership. Different people lead in different ways. We don't know if Romo is ripping him in the meetings or not. Getting in a guy's face on the sideline isn't the right answer either. We just give Brady a pass for it bc it's Brady.

Yeah but a QB like ELi has been able to counter a passive outward personality with his clutch play in big games. As a teammate, you respect him as a player because he makes things happen.

Romo doesn't have that to fall back on so his personality issues IMO become more of a negative.

You can be a quiet franchise QB, but your game better have some magic in it to make your teammates believe in you.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:01 AM    (permalink
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I can't believe the money Double J is paying for a 4-4 team. He's gotta be furious right now.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:02 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by cgf (Rosebud) View Post
Romo's going to secure another postseasonless season for the cowgirls when the giants take the division at 7-9
Lol, you're such a raging homer. Why can't you be like this with the Knicks?!

Gimme a hashtag.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:04 AM    (permalink
Trogdor
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Rosebud goes from "Giants freaking suck I'm glad we'll have Clowney" to "Giants are WINNINGZ THE SUPERBOWLZ" after beating a Matt Barkley led Eagles.

That's one hell of a rollercoaster.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Lol, you're such a raging homer. Why can't you be like this with the Knicks?!

Gimme a hashtag.
Cause with the giants it's going to happen, with the Knicks...james dolan...

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Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post
Rosebud goes from "Giants freaking suck I'm glad we'll have Clowney" to "Giants are WINNINGZ THE SUPERBOWLZ" after beating a Matt Barkley led Eagles.

That's one hell of a rollercoaster.
The giants were securing losses in games they could win like Tony Romo was the QB. Now we're two games out of the division lead with a game against Dallas still on the cards!
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Those coordinators failed because they weren't good head coaches. Great coordinators =/= great head coaches. It's an entirely different approach running a whole team instead of just your offense/defense. They are smart guys but running a full franchise like Belichick is super hard. Heck Romeo was amazing as the Chiefs DC 2 years ago and then fell flat on his face as the HC. It isn't the same job.
I agree. That is a good point. Norv Turner is an example. I don't know how he got more than one HC job.

However, I want to compare the success of Bill Walsh's (in SF), Tom Landry's, and Paul Brown's assistants in the NFL as HC with Belichick's (in NE).

Bill Walsh's 49er assistants:

Mike Holmgren coached in three SB's and won one.
Ray Rhodes took the 1995 and 96 Eagles to the playoffs.
George Seifert led the 49ers to another SB title, and to the playoffs five more times.

Tom Landry's assistants:

Mike Ditka won six NFC Central Titles, took the Bears to the playoffs seven times, and won SB XX.
Dan Reeves won five AFC West Titles in Denver, coached the Giants to the 1993 playoffs (and had two straight winning seasons), and led the Falcons to their only SB appearance.
And, oh by the way, this isn't the NFL, but Gene Stallings, a Landry assistant from 1972-85, led Alabama to the 1992 National title.

Paul Brown's assistants:

Chuck Noll coached the best team ever to four SB titles.
Bill Walsh won three SB's in San Fran, and basically made Anderson, Fouts and Montana into what they were.
Don Shula won two SB's, coached in five, and has the all-time win record.

These three guys started a winning culture in these cities. Before these guys got to their respective teams, they were in disarray.

Bill Belichick's assistants (at NE):

In the NFL, the biggest mark made by one of his assistants is Josh McDaniels, but in a negative way. He is the antithesis of Noll, Walsh, and Shula because he made the team worse, not better.

And, oh by the way, McFail also got caught for spying, just like his hero. He had Dante Scarnecchia's (O-line coach at NE) son on his staff filming games for him. That's why Pat Bowlen ultimately s***-canned his butt.

Now, Weis did lead ND to some success, and Bill O'Brien is doing a decent job at Penn State (my favorite college team) with what he has after the mess that Rapedusky, Louis Freeh, Mark Emmert, and the PSU Board of Trustees left. I commend him. He has a young team.

However, none of them have done anything positive in the NFL as HC's.

So, while it is a different job, why have Landry's, Walsh's, and Paul Brown's assistants succeded, while the Evil Hoodie's have failed?

Bryan exaggerates somewhat about the "Belichick hires cardboard cutouts as assistant coaches" angle, but when you look at what I present above, it isn't all that far off.

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Brady's leadership intangibles are off the charts compared to Romo.
That's due more to Romo's shortcomings than Brady's strengths.

Quote:
Brady's certainly doing a damn good job this year of giving this thread some legitimacy.

I would entertain legitimate arguments that Brady is a better quarterback than Romo. "He has 3 ringzzz" is not one of them.
Stats aren't one of them, either, especially with the suspicion of Spygate.

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The NFL did those things, not the Patriots. I know what everyone already thinks of this but it proves nothing. The Pats cheated and got punished. Who knows, they could have destroyed evidence because they were afraid it would lead to finding out the whole league was doing it. I know that is a conspiracy theory but it is every bit as circumstancial as anyone else saying it showed more than what the Pats got punished for.
Maybe other teams cheated, but the most evidence points to New England.

If the NFL really cared about integrity, they should have banned Belichick and Brady from the NFL for good (and the Hall of Fame), fined Robert Kraft, and still took away their 2008 first-round pick.

And, make it clear to other teams that there are severe consequences for doing what NE did.

However, they didn't do that. They destroyed the tapes, gave the Pats a slap on the wrist, and allowed Belichick and Ernie Adams, the guy I call the "cheating coordinator", to continue to do their jobs, and Brady to continue to be the "face of the league".

And, as far as the LeBatard-Flutie situation is concerned, I don't blame you for wanting proof. I Googled that topic myself, and there is just a lot of hearsay out there.

I ask you this, though: Why did this rumor dealing with Flutie hearing signals coming through on Brady's helmet even come up in the first place?

I know it's just a rumor, but I remember hearing a "rumor" on ESPN 25 years ago about how Gretzky may be traded soon. Look what happened there.
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:38 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Have you ever noticed that coaches calling plays cover their mouths with papers they are holding, it is because they know their team tries to steal signals from the other teams just like other teams try to steal signals from them. Cheating is a way of life in pro sports and all teams do it.

BB wasn't fined for cheating, he was fined and penalized for ignoring a league memo asking teams to stop filming other teams on their sidelines, a practice that had been around for years. BB made the error in judgment of continuing the practice and that is what he was penalized for. He certainly wasn't the only team that had incorporated the practice but he was one of the few teams that didn't obey the league memo.
If we were to go back retroly and penalize all the teams in pro sports that cheated, you'd probably be left with a few bottom feeders who couldn't afford to hire someone to do it. Heck, George Halas secretly recorded the other team's dressing rooms and you can bet every successful HC tried all sorts of suspect methods to get an edge on their opponents and still do.

So quit your crying about BB and I'm not a fan of NE one bit, but I actually respect BB for trying to find an competitive edge to help his team win.

Oh, yeah, you have noticed that teams review pictures practically after every play about the formations teams use during the game, so every team still films the other teams during the game, they just aren't allowed to do it on the other team's side of the field. It was all a big deal about nothing but the newspapers love to stir up trouble because it sells and you fell for the nonsense.
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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Tony Romo is not even better than Matt Stafford.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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Have you ever noticed that coaches calling plays cover their mouths with papers they are holding, it is because they know their team tries to steal signals from the other teams just like other teams try to steal signals from them. Cheating is a way of life in pro sports and all teams do it.

BB wasn't fined for cheating, he was fined and penalized for ignoring a league memo asking teams to stop filming other teams on their sidelines, a practice that had been around for years. BB made the error in judgment of continuing the practice and that is what he was penalized for. He certainly wasn't the only team that had incorporated the practice but he was one of the few teams that didn't obey the league memo.
If we were to go back retroly and penalize all the teams in pro sports that cheated, you'd probably be left with a few bottom feeders who couldn't afford to hire someone to do it. Heck, George Halas secretly recorded the other team's dressing rooms and you can bet every successful HC tried all sorts of suspect methods to get an edge on their opponents and still do.

So quit your crying about BB and I'm not a fan of NE one bit, but I actually respect BB for trying to find an competitive edge to help his team win.

Oh, yeah, you have noticed that teams review pictures practically after every play about the formations teams use during the game, so every team still films the other teams during the game, they just aren't allowed to do it on the other team's side of the field. It was all a big deal about nothing but the newspapers love to stir up trouble because it sells and you fell for the nonsense.
Congratulations for that canned response that totally misses the mark.

The biggest thing that the Pats did wasn't filming. They wired Brady's helmet with a second radio frequency so that he could hear from the coordinator (or Ernie Adams) all the way up until the center snapped the ball.

To my knowledge, they were the only team doing that.

The league knew that they were doing that. Chris Mortensen reported that at the time. However, it was swept under the rug, and the tapes were destroyed at NE's facility.

Bottom line: Bellicheat should have been banned for life, and Brady's HOF candidacy should be in serious question.
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