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Old 11-11-2013, 10:55 AM    (permalink
Brown Leader
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
Eh, it was more than that. Carr held onto the ball too long. When their backup QBs would play with the same line they would not get sacked as much. But it's much like the Browns with Tim Couch, bad offensive line and no talent at runningback set up a promising young talent to fail, who probably would've been good on a good team.
Ahhh, the myth of a ****** QB's failure because of lack of support. I wonder if Jacksonville fans will eventually look at Gabbert in this light.
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Old 11-11-2013, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Carr showed much, much more ability than Gabbert
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Old 11-11-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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I'll copy/paste from the mock thread....Carr is like a slightly bigger Colt McCoy. His arm is a little bigger but not by much.

This way off. When the predraft process is over, I believe Derek Carr will be rated one of the strongest arms in this class.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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I see Carr as a very raw version of Jay Cutler. They both have strong arms with a quick release, decent athleticism with the ability to throw on the run, and an unfortunate habit of throwing off their back foot. I'm still of the opinion that he doesn't handle pressure well which makes me even more skeptical of him.

I could see him being pushed into the 1st round, especially if some of the underclassmen stay in school, but personally I think he's too risky for the first round and would profile him as a high-end developmental 2nd rounder.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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Ahhh, the myth of a ****** QB's failure because of lack of support. I wonder if Jacksonville fans will eventually look at Gabbert in this light.
No I'm not saying that about Carr. Couch probably is true, he wasn't bad in the end before he destroyed his arm. Carr held onto the ball too long and wasn't a franchise QB no matter where you put him was my point earlier.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, Colt McCoy physically could not throw outside of the numbers. Derek Carr I was under the impression has a very good arm much like his brother.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Couch was going to be a pretty solid QB before he hurt his arm and was never the same after that. Carr was simply a flop, he lacked the mental toughness to ignore the last play. Sometimes a lack of surrounding talent can set back a rookie QB but if they are mentally tough, sooner or later, they will be in a position to succeed.

You could put the Gabbert's and the Carr's on the best teams and they would still be huge disappointments.
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
This way off. When the predraft process is over, I believe Derek Carr will be rated one of the strongest arms in this class.
I agree but GM's will be looking to see if he is mentally tough, something his brother wasn't. He could slip a bit because of his brother's failure even if they aren't the same. It's just human nature to wonder if they are built from the same cloth.
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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I refuse to believe a new coaching staff will want to dump a 2nd year guy like Glennon if he continues to build on his year so far. Well maybe not refuse to believe, but I would imagine it would be wise to go a different direction unless Glennon just falls on his face from here on out.
Coaching staffs are very good at assessing the long term talent of a prospect who plays for them. There is little guessing in it. If they can tick off 'sure fire franchise QB' beside Glennon's name, of course they won't draft another one with a very high pick, but if they are ticking off, 'OK, but not special" then all bets are off and they'll draft another QB very high, ASAP.
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Old 11-11-2013, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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No I'm not saying that about Carr. Couch probably is true, he wasn't bad in the end before he destroyed his arm. Carr held onto the ball too long and wasn't a franchise QB no matter where you put him was my point earlier.
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Couch was going to be a pretty solid QB before he hurt his arm and was never the same after that. Carr was simply a flop, he lacked the mental toughness to ignore the last play. Sometimes a lack of surrounding talent can set back a rookie QB but if they are mentally tough, sooner or later, they will be in a position to succeed.

You could put the Gabbert's and the Carr's on the best teams and they would still be huge disappointments.
It's a myth that Couch was ever, or ever going to be, a good QB.

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Yeah, Colt McCoy physically could not throw outside of the numbers. Derek Carr I was under the impression has a very good arm much like his brother.
McCoy didn't fail as a starter because of his arm.

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This way off. When the predraft process is over, I believe Derek Carr will be rated one of the strongest arms in this class.
Wow. Really? And then Fredder with the Cutler comparison? Idk, I just don't see that kind of arm. I'm stretching it with saying just a little better than McCoy but calling it on Cutler's level or strongest in this class is an even farther stretch. In any case, his issues with poise under pressure and on the move negate what ever kind of arm he has.
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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Wow. Really? And then Fredder with the Cutler comparison? Idk, I just don't see that kind of arm. I'm stretching it with saying just a little better than McCoy but calling it on Cutler's level or strongest in this class is an even farther stretch. In any case, his issues with poise under pressure and on the move negate what ever kind of arm he has.
Carr has a cannon, dude. Fresno doesn't let him uncork it and go deep nearly often enough. He makes throws off his back foot and/or short-arming it that most QBs can't do with their feet set and perfect mechanics.
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Carr has a cannon, dude. Fresno doesn't let him uncork it and go deep nearly often enough. He makes throws off his back foot and/or short-arming it that most QBs can't do with their feet set and perfect mechanics.
Carr has been alot of fun to watch this year. He has a rifle for an arm. I have come away far for more impressed with him than I thought I would prior to the season. He should also test well during the pre draft process. Hard to imagine him not going in the first round.
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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BL, You're right, McCoy didn't fail because of his arm, which is really bad because he couldn't make all the throws by a longshot. His accuracy (which was supposed to be his calling card) was/is atrocious. If he had good ball placement he would've been fine even with a puny arm in the west coast system he was in.
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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Can Aaron Murray be an NFL starter?
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Boise (95th) and SDSU (73rd) are the best defenses Carr's faced this season.



^Everything intermediate and downfield is a lob. Now, he gets decent zip on some of those (4.15)(9.20-great throw) and can really chuck it for some distance (2.55) but he doesn't drive the ball into tight windows downfield. Worst example...(13.25, driving late in the game with his team down 6). At best I think he's got Tom Brady's arm.

^When the play isn't run as designed and he get's pressured or has to buy time things get funky on him. Look at the play and reaction at 5.11. What could possibly be going through his head there. Reminds me of the Weeden flip.



^Against the best D he's faced things don't look that great.

He's tough, mentally and physically but he also gets petulant on the field and has shown up teammates. I feel like he's partly carrying the burden of his righting his brother's bust on his back. Not that it qualifies anything but, interestingly, McShay is overheard in the clip calling him a 3rd round prospect and questioning his arm.
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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Can Aaron Murray be an NFL starter?
I wouldnt count on it he doesnt have the arm strength and size. If he does become a NFL starter your looking at best at a Andy Dalton type career with some good talent around him.
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Carr=Tony Romo. Quick release arm strength and pocket presence.
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Can Aaron Murray be an NFL starter?
I think so. I wouldn't spend a 1st on him or anythin crazy like that but he's a talented QB.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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Carr has a cannon, dude. Fresno doesn't let him uncork it and go deep nearly often enough. He makes throws off his back foot and/or short-arming it that most QBs can't do with their feet set and perfect mechanics.
Same thing that happened with Nick Foles on this board in 2011 with many people thinking he didn't have a strong arm because of the short passing spread offense he played in at Arizona.

THe offense these guys run in college isn't always indicative of how well they can throw the football.

Everything I've seen leads me to believe Carr can rip it.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:06 AM    (permalink
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Can Aaron Murray be an NFL starter?
I think he has a shot but will be a likely 2nd round pick. He was having a great senior season till everybody on his offense got hurt. Early in the year, he put to rest the idea he couldn't win big games.
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SchizophrenicBatman View Post
Jordan Lynch can't throw the ball. Go watch the FSU Orange Bowl for clarification.
what I remember from that game is NIU's offensive line gettiing man handled with no time for Lynch and nowhere for him to run. They kept running the inverted veer (where the qb has the option to run up the middle and the rb is the outside threat), there were guys in his face the entire time and guys on the rb if he wanted to hand it off. The team had more talent and had the scheme to stop the read option. I see Lynch more as a rb, he is built like one, they run him up the gut quite a bit as well like a rb, and numerous scouts have said he would be better suited to play rb in the NFL.
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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Rough day for Manziel and Mariota. Great day for Derek Carr.

Interesting.
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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I think Mariota and Hundley stay in school at this point. Derek Carr is a potential top 10 pick at this point.
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Old 11-23-2013, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rawdawg View Post
I think Mariota and Hundley stay in school at this point. Derek Carr is a potential top 10 pick at this point.
Both could learn so much and would be stupid to leave. I put that with Manziel as well, but I think he'll leave.
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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These QBs didn't all play in a vacuum today. I imagine facing LSU in Baton Rouge is a little tougher than playing New Mexico in your home stadium. That seems to be getting a little overlooked in this discussion.
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