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Old 11-09-2013, 09:24 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Default Is Gerlald McCoy really an ELite DT?

2 Sacks this season. 5 sacks a season ago where it came against teams of Dallas, Carolina, and the Eagles. (2012 sacks. )

I know he has a quick first step, but I've been watching him, as a buc fan, all year and nothing jumps out at me when he rushes the QB. He can get pressure, but cannot finish some times and all out, hasn';t made enough plays. I do say he's a very good Run defender and part of me thinks, he's better off in the 3-4 as a 5 tech because he can't get to the QB nor pressure him consistently. I compare him towards guys like Suh and Atkins, and to me, they both have to take on double teams and excel. Suh makes everyone around him better. McCoy, just seems to tbe the excuse he has no one. Atkins is just purely dominate in all aspects of the DT position.

It's funny: I've heard Buc homers call McCoy better than Atkins. It's just the Schiano Scheme. LOL.

Schiano and Sheridan's scheme do run a lot of dline stunts. But I don't think that's holding McCoy back. I think he is what he is" Very good Run Defender, below average pass rusher. Hasn't lived up to the #3 overall status being in his 4th year in the league.

PFF has him as a mid-season All Pro. I laughed a bit.

Any other opinions? General consensus on McCoy?
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Old 11-09-2013, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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The idea of a pass rusher is a pass rusher, not a pass sacker. There is more to rushing the passer than simply sacking him. Putting him under pressure can be just as important. Yes McCoy hasn't sacked the Quarterback that often this season but he has the same number of total QB pressures (35) that Jason Hatcher (who leads DTs in sacks) has and more QB pressures than Geno Atkins and Jurrell Casey.
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Old 11-09-2013, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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The idea of a pass rusher is a pass rusher, not a pass sacker. There is more to rushing the passer than simply sacking him. Putting him under pressure can be just as important. Yes McCoy hasn't sacked the Quarterback that often this season but he has the same number of total QB pressures (35) that Jason Hatcher (who leads DTs in sacks) has and more QB pressures than Geno Atkins and Jurrell Casey.
Ding. Ding. Ding. [/thread]
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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2nd tier DT. Starter on most teams, but not an impact player.

McCoy still has great value to the Bucs, he's just not 'great'.

Similar situation with OLB Brian Orakpo in Washington, one of those players based on their measurables and scouting reports you think should be better than he is.
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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According to PFF, he has the most quarterback hits and the second-most pressures of any defensive tackle.
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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id say he most def is, hes just stuck on a bad team...hell get his due next year
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
According to PFF, he has the most quarterback hits and the second-most pressures of any defensive tackle.
PFF also says the Skins have the best pass blocking Oline in the NFL. Stats are funny that way.
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Is this a way for a Bucs fan to get the board to talk about how great one of their players is?

Is Justin Houston any good, or is it just the talent around him? Asking for a friend.
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Is this a way for a Bucs fan to get the board to talk about how great one of their players is?

Is Justin Houston any good, or is it just the talent around him? Asking for a friend.

Thread 'jacking initiated....!!

I was soooo high on Justin Houston in the 2011 draft. His measurables and IMO his game film screamed top 15 pick. Did he slide all the way to the 3rd because he failed a drug test(marijuana)??

He should have been the 3rd OLB drafted after Miller/Aldon Smith.

I like Ryan Kerrigan, but Justin Houston should have been a Redskin.
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Is this a way for a Bucs fan to get the board to talk about how great one of their players is?

Is Justin Houston any good, or is it just the talent around him? Asking for a friend.
Nope. And shame on you vidae. Not one part of me hyped him on this post so don't put words in my mouth.

Lately I've been listening to radio segments and reading articles claiming how McCoy is an elite DT AND MIGHT be the best DT in the game.

I personally don't see either one and am getting a consensus here what others have seen. PFF has him as an all pro. I don't see it. Do others?
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Thread 'jacking initiated....!!

I was soooo high on Justin Houston in the 2011 draft. His measurables and IMO his game film screamed top 15 pick. Did he slide all the way to the 3rd because he failed a drug test(marijuana)??

He should have been the 3rd OLB drafted after Miller/Aldon Smith.

I like Ryan Kerrigan, but Justin Houston should have been a Redskin.
Same. I just saw Houston being a threat in the 4-3 as a rde or 3-4 olb. It was a shame he dropped to the 3rd. Tampa took bowers over him for Pete's sake.
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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When I look at the Bucs overall talent, they remind of the Chiefs last season. They have pro bowl caliber talent up and down their roster, IMO they lack a solid QB and the right HC.

There's no way they should be winless.
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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I thought one had to win a Super Bowl to be considered "elite".

Or is that just for quarterbacks?
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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I thought one had to win a Super Bowl to be considered "elite".

Or is that just for quarterbacks?
LOL. You know QBs have to be winners to be considered elite.
Everyone else just has to be a dominant level individual performer with great stats.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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When I look at the Bucs overall talent, they remind of the Chiefs last season. They have pro bowl caliber talent up and down their roster, IMO they lack a solid QB and the right HC.

There's no way they should be winless.
I've heard people say if they fire Schianno that the Bucs head coaching job will be "toxic". I completely disagree; given the level of talent they have at just about everywhere aside from QB.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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According to PFF, he has the most quarterback hits and the second-most pressures of any defensive tackle.
Do you have to pay for those stats or are they on their site for free? I can never find individual stats on their site.
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Old 11-09-2013, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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Same. I just saw Houston being a threat in the 4-3 as a rde or 3-4 olb. It was a shame he dropped to the 3rd. Tampa took bowers over him for Pete's sake.
Bucfan12 you've taken your hate for McCoy to a new level. The guy is a top 5 DT. He just doesn't have much around him on the Dline to help. Clayborn looked good his rookie year and is just now showing some of that old form from the knee injury he had.

Also with taking Bowers over Houston. If we all remember Bowers was a top 10 pick that fell because of his Knee not his talent. This is what was said after drafting Bowers by espn.

" Bowers is a top-10 talent who fell because of concerns about a knee injury, but when healthy he is both stout against the run and a determined pass-rusher who showed a much better motor in 2010. He does not have elite explosiveness but never stops working to get to the quarterback. If he remains healthy, he could become one of the best 4-3 LDEs ends in the NFL. "

So it hasn't worked out for Bowers because of injuries and this year he's seemed to give up. Houston has become a monster. It happens. That's part of drafting players is the great unknown.

But when the Bucs took Bowers you can't say it was a bad call. You were taking a shot on getting a top 10 player at 51.
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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Bucfan12 you've taken your hate for McCoy to a new level. The guy is a top 5 DT. He just doesn't have much around him on the Dline to help. Clayborn looked good his rookie year and is just now showing some of that old form from the knee injury he had.

Also with taking Bowers over Houston. If we all remember Bowers was a top 10 pick that fell because of his Knee not his talent. This is what was said after drafting Bowers by espn.

" Bowers is a top-10 talent who fell because of concerns about a knee injury, but when healthy he is both stout against the run and a determined pass-rusher who showed a much better motor in 2010. He does not have elite explosiveness but never stops working to get to the quarterback. If he remains healthy, he could become one of the best 4-3 LDEs ends in the NFL. "

So it hasn't worked out for Bowers because of injuries and this year he's seemed to give up. Houston has become a monster. It happens. That's part of drafting players is the great unknown.

But when the Bucs took Bowers you can't say it was a bad call. You were taking a shot on getting a top 10 player at 51.
Hate is a strong word Bigbuc. I don't hate anyone. Read my posts before you toss that around pal.
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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I've heard people say if they fire Schianno that the Bucs head coaching job will be "toxic". I completely disagree; given the level of talent they have at just about everywhere aside from QB.
yeah they will be this years chiefs next year. I anticpated they would suck this year and make the playoffs in 2014, and I still think thats right. Their defense is stacked, they have good pieces on the OL, a legit workhorse back, a go-to WR...they remind me a lot of the Chiefs. Get a new HC, a legit QB, an impact edge rusher, and some more weapons for the passing game, and theyre gonna be tough as hell next year.
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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PFF also says the Skins have the best pass blocking Oline in the NFL. Stats are funny that way.
PFF is horseshit I can't believe people put any stock into that site.
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:24 AM    (permalink
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PFF is horseshit I can't believe people put any stock into that site.
PFF's grading system is horseshit but they do chart what happens on every play, so their numbers are normally spot on. If they left it at that then it would have some merit as a website. But they try to quantify each stat and put it in an overall perspective.
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Old 11-11-2013, 11:36 PM    (permalink
jth1331
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McCoy had what I would call a pretty freakin good game...sure looked elite to me
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:36 AM    (permalink
bigbuc
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McCoy had what I would call a pretty freakin good game...sure looked elite to me
He did. But he should have. Phins missing starting OG and RT.
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:37 AM    (permalink
villagewarrior
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If a defensive tackle gets the quarterback on the ground, great, but his primary job is to collapse the pocket and make the quarterback step back thus pushing him into the arc the defensive ends/outside linebackers are running.
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:38 AM    (permalink
Raiderz4Life
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Gerald McCoy is pretty good.

Gerlald McCoy I ain't so sure about.
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