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Old 11-18-2013, 11:27 PM    (permalink
Jcn92
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It was clear on the 4th down play that Kuechly couldn't cover Gronk one on one down the seam so here with the game on the line I think Kuechly just said **** it and hugged Gronk to restrain his hands.

Even if their was a holding or PI call that still doesn't guarantee a win. I'm still dissapointed in the defense on Carolina's final drive. That holding call on McCourty was incredibly stupid by McCourty on third down, and in retrospect it's exactly what Kuechly did to Gronk. The defense gave them way to many chances on that last drive. Any time Talib goes out of the game it's like they can't keep it together.
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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Ok well either way, at this point you've got to take Carolina seriously as a SB contender. In the NFC alone you've got QB's like Kaepernick, Russel Wilson, Matt Stafford, and Nick Foles as some of the QB's in the playoffs other then Drew Brees. We'll see how they stack up against them, but with their defense and how it's gonna be to defend Cam, they aren't going to be a good match-up for anyone.
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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That was a blown call and should have allowed the Patriots a chance from the 1 yard line.

There is no viable explanation as to where no form of penalty was called on this play.

Just piss poor call by the officials on that one, there's no other way to say it.
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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Ok well either way, at this point you've got to take Carolina seriously as a SB contender. In the NFC alone you've got QB's like Kaepernick, Russel Wilson, Matt Stafford, and Nick Foles as some of the QB's in the playoffs other then Drew Brees. We'll see how they stack up against them, but with their defense and how it's gonna be to defend Cam, they aren't going to be a good match-up for anyone.
A lot of ball to be played. You could still have Rodgers, Cutler and Manning in the playoffs. You giving up on Tony already?
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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It doesn't matter who makes playoffs, Panthers are absolutely, unequivocally a SB contender. They are, at the absolute worst, the 5th best team in the NFL right now and that front 7 is going to make them a miserable matchup for anyone come Playoffs.
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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It was clear on the 4th down play that Kuechly couldn't cover Gronk one on one down the seam so here with the game on the line I think Kuechly just said **** it and hugged Gronk to restrain his hands.

Even if their was a holding or PI call that still doesn't guarantee a win. I'm still dissapointed in the defense on Carolina's final drive. That holding call on McCourty was incredibly stupid by McCourty on third down, and in retrospect it's exactly what Kuechly did to Gronk. The defense gave them way to many chances on that last drive. Any time Talib goes out of the game it's like they can't keep it together.
The officials seem content to let the players play in the final snap of a close game like that. Kuechly might have just taken his chances. And like Rod Woodson said once "it's better to move the sticks than give up six".
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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The officials seem content to let the players play in the final snap of a close game like that. Kuechly might have just taken his chances. And like Rod Woodson said once "it's better to move the sticks than give up six".
Wish they would have let them play when they overruled a missed fg when the Pats lost to the Jets. Can't have it both ways.
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:48 AM    (permalink
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It doesn't matter who makes playoffs, Panthers are absolutely, unequivocally a SB contender. They are, at the absolute worst, the 5th best team in the NFL right now and that front 7 is going to make them a miserable matchup for anyone come Playoffs.
The Panthers defense didn't exactly look that impressive this game though to be honest.
Punt
Fumble
Field Goal
TD
TD
Field Goal
Interception(which is debateable)

The fumble was in the red zone, the first field goal had a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on NE to back them up, the last field goal was a 4th and 1 at the 8 and of course, the final drive resulting in the game ending interception that was of penalty.
The Pats from what I saw were able to move down the field with relative ease.
Pats had 28 first downs, 5-10 on 3rd down, 4+ ypc on the run, overall averaged 5.8 yards per play and every possession drove down inside Carolina territory.
If the Pats can do that, I think the Saints and Brees could as well.

I will say, with how the NFL is this year, they are a top contender in the NFC. I just don't know if they will be able to hold up against a team like Seattle or New Orleans.

AFC is going to be interesting as well now. Indy and NE are both 7-3, Cincy 7-4, and then Denver and KC both 9-1.
If NE loses next week to Denver, they'll drop to 7-4, Denver will be 10-1. Indy places a tough Arizona team, but if they win and go to 8-3, they are in good shape to help securing a bye.
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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The Panthers defense didn't exactly look that impressive this game though to be honest.
Punt
Fumble
Field Goal
TD
TD
Field Goal
Interception(which is debateable)

The fumble was in the red zone, the first field goal had a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on NE to back them up, the last field goal was a 4th and 1 at the 8 and of course, the final drive resulting in the game ending interception that was of penalty.
The Pats from what I saw were able to move down the field with relative ease.
Pats had 28 first downs, 5-10 on 3rd down, 4+ ypc on the run, overall averaged 5.8 yards per play and every possession drove down inside Carolina territory.
If the Pats can do that, I think the Saints and Brees could as well.

I will say, with how the NFL is this year, they are a top contender in the NFC. I just don't know if they will be able to hold up against a team like Seattle or New Orleans.

AFC is going to be interesting as well now. Indy and NE are both 7-3, Cincy 7-4, and then Denver and KC both 9-1.
If NE loses next week to Denver, they'll drop to 7-4, Denver will be 10-1. Indy places a tough Arizona team, but if they win and go to 8-3, they are in good shape to help securing a bye.
By losing 12-7, apparently.
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:15 AM    (permalink
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not that i'm trying to twist the knife, and not that i think it's a meaningful equivalency, but after years of the patriots getting calls, it's hard to cry too much after tonight. especially when it won't really make any difference in playoff terms.
Once again... another thing that cannot be overstated
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:18 AM    (permalink
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:25 AM    (permalink
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How can they ever call PI away from the ball now after this "definition?"

How many hundreds of times has a guy been called for defensive holding, illegal contact, or PI when the QB didn't even look to that side of the field?


This, along with the Brooks v Brees media storm is creating a rather uncomfortable week for the NFL brass.

A pass being uncatchable is a very common reason to pick up a flag for DPI. It happens all the time. Defensive holding and illegal contact can be called anywhere. This explanation changes nothing.

The problem is that the ball was not at all "uncatchable" when Kuechly grabbed Gronk. It probably would have been intercepted anyway, but the ball was still in the area of the receiver, and he may have been able to make a play of he wasn't mugged.
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Old 11-19-2013, 04:49 AM    (permalink
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The biggest issue with the call, and I don't want to ***** about it because **** happens, but it seems as though the flag was thrown by the back judge when he saw the contact. Then after a deliberation it was decided that because it was picked it was an uncatchable ball.

Now, this opens a can of worms if the NFL want to do this. Does an INT override PI? It can't work like that.

To me it seems that the officials looked and saw the INT and thought Gronk wasn't going to make a difference whether held or not, which is probably the case. But that doesn't warrant picking up the flag.

The argument about it being a catchable ball is also moot IMO because an argument could be made that if Gronk wasn't held he could have stopped and worked back to the ball. Flimsy argument yes but still better than what the officials gave.

All in all, it sucks to lose this game, especially in this way. But this Panthers team is for real. I do think their secondary can be attacked if you can pass protect long enough which the Pats couldn't do last night. Overall, maybe Brady's best performance of the season because it came against a legit D, but stupid penalites and mental mistakes cost them the game. Like the Jets game it shouldn't have come down to the officials and it should have been over before that.
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Old 11-19-2013, 05:51 AM    (permalink
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Ok well either way, at this point you've got to take Carolina seriously as a SB contender. In the NFC alone you've got QB's like Kaepernick, Russel Wilson, Matt Stafford, and Nick Foles as some of the QB's in the playoffs other then Drew Brees. We'll see how they stack up against them, but with their defense and how it's gonna be to defend Cam, they aren't going to be a good match-up for anyone.
I'm starting to like the Saints out of the NFC. I just think Brees is the clear best QB out of that bunch and I think that matters more in the playoffs. Rodgers/Eli/Romo are out yet but they aren't in either. The Saints are a top offense and their defense has its moments. I think Brees can attack the Panthers defense quick enough to fins success. Saints have 2 games vs Carolina and a game vs Seattle left. Those 3 games will tell us a lot, especially if NO has to travel to Seattle for a playoff game.

I'm not trying to disrespect the other NFC teams (some disrespect for the NFCE) but I see it between the Seahawks and the Saints right now with Carolina maybe playing the spoiler if their defense keeps it up.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:07 AM    (permalink
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**** the Saints they should of lost that game but they had home field refs that gave them the pussie ass call and the game . again **** the Saints. GO AFC!
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:32 AM    (permalink
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So the head zebra basically blames Brady for a "bad pass"?

Quote:
A flag was thrown on the play, but after conferring with his group of officials, referee Clete Blakeman announced that there was not in fact a penalty, waving off the flag.

Following the game, Blakeman explained and defended his crew's decision, saying the original call was pass interference but that Gronkowski's distance from the ball rendered the penalty moot.

"So it was determined at that point in time that when the primary contact (molestation by Kuechly) occurred on the tight end that the ball, in essence, was coming in underthrown and in essence it was [immediately] at that point intercepted at the front end of the end zone," Blakeman said. "So there was a determination that, in essence, uncatchability, that the ball was intercepted at or about the same time the primary contact against the receiver occurred."
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:00 AM    (permalink
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A pass being uncatchable is a very common reason to pick up a flag for DPI. It happens all the time. Defensive holding and illegal contact can be called anywhere. This explanation changes nothing.

The problem is that the ball was not at all "uncatchable" when Kuechly grabbed Gronk. It probably would have been intercepted anyway, but the ball was still in the area of the receiver, and he may have been able to make a play of he wasn't mugged.
I really don't think it was catchable unless you think Gronk somehow undercuts that safety and makes the catch w/o Kuechly holding him. I agreed with the call then and still agree with it now after watching the play again. I just don't see a scenario where Gronk could have caught that ball. If the safety isn't there, it's obviously DPI to me. But that's not the case.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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That's some dirty **** to do to a stand-up guy.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:18 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
do you have any vague clue how to read? he's saying they ruled the pass was uncatchable, the same thing every single person has been discussing since it happened. are you not capable of catching up with the conversation, or did you think you were just offering some incredible insight? are you about to link this back to packers injuries somehow?
Why do you do this to yourself?
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:20 AM    (permalink
brat316
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I hope cannon is fined a game check for that ****.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:21 AM    (permalink
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I really don't think it was catchable unless you think Gronk somehow undercuts that safety and makes the catch w/o Kuechly holding him. I agreed with the call then and still agree with it now after watching the play again. I just don't see a scenario where Gronk could have caught that ball. If the safety isn't there, it's obviously DPI to me. But that's not the case.
That's not what the rule is about. It's not about the likelihood of a catch being made, it is the possibility that it could happen. Plus, Gronk is ridden out of the play from before the area where Lester makes the INT. To say it is an uncatchable ball the officials had to guess what would have happened and that can't be how the rule is enforced
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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I really don't think it was catchable unless you think Gronk somehow undercuts that safety and makes the catch w/o Kuechly holding him. I agreed with the call then and still agree with it now after watching the play again. I just don't see a scenario where Gronk could have caught that ball. If the safety isn't there, it's obviously DPI to me. But that's not the case.
The safety being there means absolutely zero. Kuechly interfered with Gronkowski at almost the exact spot the ball was intercepted. Had he not been held, Gronk could have come back to the ball and at least had a chance to break up the interception. Now, breaking up the interception would have meant nothing because there was no time left but how much time left on the clock should have no impact on the calls being made.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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Can we please stop with the Gronk was pushed out of the play crap. Gronk is a monster who showed ZERO interest in breaking back towards the ball. If he wanted to break back on the ball he would had bullied Kuechly. He was content to stand with Kuechly once he realized the ball was well short. Hence why the flag was picked up for DPI.

Should it have been holding? Absolutely. Outside of the final play of the game that would have been called defensive holding. That being said it's the last play of the game on a toss up. Referees are going to keep their flags barring egregious.


Also that leg whip deserves harsh justice. That's just a dirty play that has no place in the NFL.

Last edited by Trogdor : 11-19-2013 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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It doesn't matter who makes playoffs, Panthers are absolutely, unequivocally a SB contender. They are, at the absolute worst, the 5th best team in the NFL right now and that front 7 is going to make them a miserable matchup for anyone come Playoffs.
I support this message. They're a very good team and Cam is the type of QB who could get hot at the right time.

I feel like the NFC is wide open at this point. If you put a gun to my head, I'd probably pick Seattle, but Carolina would be my next guess.
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