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Old 11-26-2013, 11:35 AM    (permalink
dregolll
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Default Cam Newton vs RG3

Letís revisit the Cam Newton vs. RG3 discussion. We all know that RG3 is going through a rough slump right now and if you think back one year ago, Cam was in a similar situation although Cam did go on a little winning streak and finished strong. My question now is now that they have both been through their slumps, who would you start your franchise with and why. Feedback please.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Cam is arrogant as hell but figured out the game can't be all about himself if the team is going to win.

I feel like RG3 never shuts up and has no idea how he comes across in the media right now. That on top of the injury and the fact that it looks like he forgot how to throw a football are not good for him ATM.

Also - I think Cam is playing well, but not insanely good. That defense is awesome.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Size is the biggest difference. And despite being bigger Cam protects himself way more than RGIII does.

How do people view Bryce Petty as a NFL player?

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Old 11-26-2013, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Everyone thinks Cam had a sophmore slump his numbers last year were very close to this rookie year. There was never a sophmore slump there.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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I've always been on Team Cam. I didn't like his college resume very much, but I loved his Auburn film, his combine, his play with the Panthers -- everything.

People just like to hate on him because he's kind of a schmuck. But you can be a schmuck and still be a great QB.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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i have always liked cam better, obviously its easier to say that now without being criticized. newton is having a great year, rg3 is clearly struggling….Im not holding this year too much against rg3 tho, i really blame it on shinny and even snyder cuz he just does an awful job of running the franchise. they messed up letting him play through his injury last year, he probably should have sat out the beginning of this season, he has a pretty terrible supporting cast, and the organization has done very little to show they have his back or try to protect him from all the media frenzy going against him right now. RG3 will probably be OK, he's tremendously talented, and his supporting cast will get better. maybe a new coaching staff could help as well, that offense has gotten a little too gimmicky, its not working with RG3 not able to run like he was last year.

As for Cam, I thought his rookie season one of the greatest rookie seasons Id ever seen, and Id still take Cams rookie year over RG3s, even though RG3 made the playoffs. Just like RG3, Cams "sophomore slump" was overblown. He went through struggles but still put up solid numbers and had some nice games. I think that could be said for RG3 as well, even if a lot of those numbers came when the team was in a big hole….But Cam has busted through in his third year, and he is playing like a seasoned vet, his composure is so much better.

But overall I just like his game better. Injuries have always been a concern with me for RG3, before he even entered the league just his reckless game and his thin frame spelled trouble. I like the filled out frames of guys like Cam, Kaepernick and Luck. They can run, but they don't need to be nearly as terrified of taking a hit, and I feel like they will stay healthy throughout their careers.

They both have live arms, but I feel like Cams deep balls are a little more controlled and pinpointed. Last year, I would have said RG3 was a more accurate short passer, but I can't say that this year. RG3s footwork has taken a step back this year, which probably has a lot to do with his knee, and I think that has affected his accuracy.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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I've always been on Team Cam. I didn't like his college resume very much, but I loved his Auburn film, his combine, his play with the Panthers -- everything.

People just like to hate on him because he's kind of a schmuck. But you can be a schmuck and still be a great QB.
I think he finally realized he had a poor attitude and has done a lot to change.

They said his first two years, he was a little bit of a loner. Probably because he was full of himself. But he seems to have adopted the team first mentality now. Seems to have a better relationship with teammates.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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Last year I said I'd take Cam Newton over any young QB not named Andrew Luck and I struggled with picking Luck over him.

Luck has clearly distanced himself from the pack. Cam Newton is and always has been better than Griffin, Kap & Wilson. You put him on the Niners the past two years and they are going for their third straight Super Bowl right now.

Couldn't believe he was being exclusively ranked behind those three when ESPN were pumping Kap, RGIII & Wilson at the end of last year.

Best college player of all time & the start to his career hasn't been matched by many people. Always take the 6'5, 250 QB with the 4.5 & rocket arm. He still has a lot to work on but I'm glad he's getting more praise.

That being said RGIII will get it together. He rushed himself back too early but he's going to be elite when he's finally healthy. I wouldn't bet against him but everyone will continue to bash him. He'll have a terrific season next year and they'll jump back on the bandwagon.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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I said Cam last time, and this season has only validated that for me. Cam has limitless potential at the QB position. He's already arguably top 10 with relatively mediocre supporting cast. Give it a few years for the Panthers to get some cap space to build an offense around Cam then look out.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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Everyone thinks Cam had a sophmore slump his numbers last year were very close to this rookie year. There was never a sophmore slump there.
Exactly. He didn't take the jump people thought he should and there were a few times he sulked but the narrative of him coming out of Auburn was he was a bad character guy and the media were waiting for him to show any signs of it and latched back onto it.

He seems like a great kid & if you asked 32 GM's right now if they had the #1 pick to start a Franchise excluding Luck, he'd go #1 16/32 times.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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The Packers and Panthers played during Cam's rookie year, and my dad sent me this text message: "Is it just me, or are the Packers making Newton look like Unitas."

He might not be Unitas, but he's pretty good.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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I'll take the man who thinks he's an airplane, Cam.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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The problem with a new coach for RGIII, is that I can't see many good coaches running the work with him or with Snyder. I think Shanny has done a good job swallowing his pride and putting together an offense to best utilize his QB. I'm sure he'd prefer to be running something like he did in Denver.

Also the bottom line is that the read option is not here to stay in the NFL. It was the the 2012 version of the wildcat. It still can be used here and there but not like we saw it last year. I actually like the way Panthers use it. They seem to use it as more of Power run. For short gains. They don't count on it for huge gains like the Skins seems to.

There is also an art to throwing and turning at the same time to avoid a hit. So you get hit in the back and can get your hands down. RGIII threw a ball last night and just stood there as Aldon Smith destroyed him. It was like he didn't even see him coming right in his face.

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Old 11-26-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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The problem with a new coach for RGIII, is that I can't see many good coaches running the work with him or with Snyder. I think Shanny has done a good job swallowing his pride and putting together an offense to best utilize his QB. I'm sure he'd prefer to be running something like he did in Denver.

Also the bottom line is that the read option is not here to stay in the NFL. It was the the 2012 version of the wildcat. It still can be used here and there but not like we saw it last year. I actually like the way Panthers use it. They seem to use it as more of Power run. For short gains. They don't count on it for huge gains like the Skins seems to.

There is also an art to throwing and turning at the same time to avoid a hit. So you get hit in the back and can get your hands down. RGIII threw a ball last night and just stood there as Aldon Smith destroyed him. It was like he didn't even see him coming right in his face.
If the choice is Griffin and Newton i have to go Newton hands down. Just has a better build and skillset for the pro game. RGIII is built like a wr, which is probably going to get him killed because he can't make the mental adjustments needed to stay safe out there.

As for any talk that Mike Shanahan is the problem there in Washington that is almost laughable.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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As for any talk that Mike Shanahan is the problem there in Washington that is almost laughable.
Shanny will go long before RGIII does. That is for sure. Regardless of who is more to blame.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Super man Cam
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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I would take newton but Carolina's turn around this year is more about them playing better defense than anything. Griffin bought into the hype, endorsements and believing he was the greatest thing ever and this year he has obviously crashed back down to earth. Like another poster already stated the read option has been figured out and effectively been neutralized as the centerpiece of an offense.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Newton >>>> RG3

Its time for Griffen to mature, and do it quickly. The guy has a big time problem with never shutting his mouth, he never gets rid of the ball in a timely manner, and he's setting himself up for a short career with how he plays the game. Teams are really catching on to what the Skins did last year, they essentially ran an offense like Florida did with Tebow at the helm. A read opton offense, and a 1 read passing game. Griffen cannot and does not go through progressions for dick.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Newton >>>> RG3

Its time for Griffen to mature, and do it quickly. The guy has a big time problem with never shutting his mouth, he never gets rid of the ball in a timely manner, and he's setting himself up for a short career with how he plays the game. Teams are really catching on to what the Skins did last year, they essentially ran an offense like Florida did with Tebow at the helm. A read opton offense, and a 1 read passing game. Griffen cannot and does not go through progressions for dick.
Add in that RGIII had the worst conversion ratio of ANY QB IN NFL HISTORY on 3rd and 10+ last year. He isn't an NFL QB. The gimmick offense worked last year and teams are forcing him to actually play QB and he's struggling. He is VERY intelligent and I think he'll adapt and become a very solid NFL QB though :) That being said Newton is VASTLY superior and it isn't really close.

Remember when Redskins fans were trolling the hell out of the forums about RGIII and how he's an MVP and best QB eva!?!?! Yeah. Good times.

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Old 11-26-2013, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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I also think the lore of RGIII had a lot to do with the turn around of the Baylor program. However that seems more to do with coach Briles now. He's really built something there.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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after a lot of debate I'm going to go with Marcus Mariota
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:00 PM    (permalink
Babylon
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Originally Posted by Jughead10 View Post
Shanny will go long before RGIII does. That is for sure. Regardless of who is more to blame.
Agree. My guess is Shanny isn't enjoying himself there and might even walk for a better job somewhere else.

If the choice is between a HOF coach and an overrated QB i'd go with the coach but i understand the reality of the situation.
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:12 PM    (permalink
Raiderz4Life
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Originally Posted by CC.SD View Post
after a lot of debate I'm going to go with Marcus Mariota
I agree with this!

From the 2 choices though....Newton. Dislike em both but Newton is superior in every way
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R4L does security, and strips on the weekend.
He told me the best part is being able to wear the same uniform to both jobs.
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:18 PM    (permalink
San Diego Chicken
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I still prefer RG3 as a passer. I think with a full training camp in a more standard offense, he'll be ok. It's been a tough season all around and I'm willing to give him a pass. I haven't watched every Panthers game but Cam's still making more conversions with his legs that I would like, though he has been better at patiently getting though his progressions.
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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I still prefer RG3 as a passer. I think with a full training camp in a more standard offense, he'll be ok. It's been a tough season all around and I'm willing to give him a pass. I haven't watched every Panthers game but Cam's still making more conversions with his legs that I would like, though he has been better at patiently getting though his progressions.
Not sure what part of passing Griffin is good at. He doesn't see the whole field very well and holds onto the ball too long. His accuracy is streaky but mostly has been bad in early parts of games.

I'm all for getting him totally healthy but he's hasn't shown a willingness to protect himself out there. My guess is a year from now he'll still be pretty much the same QB.
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