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Old 11-28-2013, 08:37 AM    (permalink
rawdawg
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Default Separate the Top DTs

This looks to be a pretty deep group at the top if some of the expected guys leave school. But after Louis Nix, I'm having a hard time differentiating between the mid-to-late 1st and early 2nd round guys.

Ra'Shede Hageman, DT, Minnesota- 6'5-6'6 long, athletic sometimes dominant. Kind of raw though.

Stephon Tuitt, DT/DE, Notre Dame- 6'5. Some versatility to play DE on run downs and move inside on passing downs

Kelcy Quarles, DT, South Carolina. Quick, putting up sack numbers this year; is it the Clowney effect?

Timmy Jernigan, DT, Florida State. Shorter, stockier build. Very quick.

Ego Ferguson, DT, LSU- Having a strong year outplaying teammate Johnson

Anthony Johnson, DT, LSU- Maybe most potential on the list, but not exactly flashing a ton this year.

Will Sutton, DT, Arizona State- Put on weight, lost some explosion. Most polished pass rush moves of the group.

Dominique Easley, DE/DT, Florida. Injured, but was dominant before getting hurt. Tweener? Can he hold up inside at DT? Is he quick enough off the edge?

How would you rank these guys? And are these guys as bunched up as I think they are?
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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I don't look at them as bunched up as much as I look at them as all having different types of skill sets that are desirable to different teams. So it isn't necessarily who's the best, but who's the best fit for each team. Off of that list for the Cowboys I would find Timmy Jernigan to be the ideal pick. For a 3-4 team, I would love to have Tuitt.
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Old 11-28-2013, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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I've been working on the DTs for Draft Examiner lately, and here's what I have:

1. Louis Nix, Notre Dame*

2. Rashede Hageman, Minnesota

3. Dominique Easley, Florida

4. DaQuan Jones, Penn St.

5. Will Sutton, Arizona St.

6. Timmy Jernigan, Florida St.*

7. Anthony Johnson, Louisiana St.*

8. Caraun Reid, Princeton

I still need to take another look at guys like Aaron Donald, Ego Ferguson, and Daniel McCullers.
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Old 11-28-2013, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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Quarles is unquestionably benefiting from having Clowney right there, but he's a good pass rusher in his own right. He's not a big guy (although still strong enough to hold his own), but he's extremely athletic with a high motor. Should project as a starting UT.
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Old 11-29-2013, 03:45 AM    (permalink
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I've got them ranked:

1. Ra'Shede Hageman - has some boom or bust about him, but when he's on you can't stop him.

2. Ego Ferguson - I'm a sucker for the two gap guys - not as good as Brockers, but still good.

3. Louis Nix - medical drops him. Also thought he was being asked to be a 2 gap NT and wanted to 1 gap - needs the right system. Tendonitis more of a concern than the torn meniscus as that will continue to be a problem.

4. Danny Shelton - Washington - big two gap NT - refuses to stay blocked, very high motor. Love watching him.

5. Stephon Tuitt - versatility a plus, against BYU was at 4 man front DE and DT plus 3 man front DE in the base defense. Slow twitch but has pass rush ability - trying to work out how he does it! Slow to recover from off season surgery, so should be better as a rookie than he has been this year.

6. DaQuan Jones - Penn State - big guy, but moves well - strong with long arms - under rated.

7. Will Sutton - has been playing better but I don't think as good as last year. Added weight the big story - best fit for me as a 5 technique in a one gap 3-4 (e.g. Houston/San Diego).

8. George Uko - USC - doesn't rotate so does get worn done at times - but still flashes ability to penetrate. Classic Monte Kiffin 3 technique.

9. Anthony Johnson - LSU - shows flashes, but quite frustrating as in some games he's invisible.

10. Dominique Easley - didn't like him last year, but thought he was playing much better before the injury this year. Projecting him forward, is he a tweener?

11. Aaron Donald - willing to move him up if he can add some weight and retain his speed - has very good tape, but size is a problem.

12. Timmy Jernigan - have discussed him on another thread, I'm not a big fan.

13. Caraun Reid - Princeton - liked him better than Catapano last year (wonder if Reid will get a thread of his own?!) - willing to move him up with a good Senior Bowl week.

I need to do more work on Quarles - have watched him twice and didn't see anything special, 4th round is my early grade, didn't think he was a top 100 talent.
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Old 11-29-2013, 04:15 AM    (permalink
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Quarles, physically, looks like Warren Sapp to me. Not saying he plays like him, but he looks like him.
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Old 11-29-2013, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by villagewarrior View Post
Quarles, physically, looks like Warren Sapp to me. Not saying he plays like him, but he looks like him.
I was thinking Nick Fairley. Same listed H/W numbers depending on where you look for weight. Even look like similar builds with the same belly fat. Sapp is a good couple inches shorter.
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Old 11-29-2013, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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I was thinking Nick Fairley. Same listed H/W numbers depending on where you look for weight. Even look like similar builds with the same belly fat. Sapp is a good couple inches shorter.
Definitely see Fairley too. The Clowney effect is a good point. Still, he has been able to step up and make the plays which should count for something.
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Old 11-29-2013, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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Quarles is unquestionably benefiting from having Clowney right there, but he's a good pass rusher in his own right. He's not a big guy (although still strong enough to hold his own), but he's extremely athletic with a high motor. Should project as a starting UT.
I agree with this, Quarles explosion off of the snap is upper echelon and top end speed appears to be very good as well. I think he is a great fit as an UT in a one gap scheme to take advantage of his ability to get off the ball. I do factor Clowney into his success to a certain respect and always take caution when scouting prospects that potentially overachieve due to a superstar teamate around them. A perfect example would be the 2005 NC state defense that produced 1st rounders in Manny Lawson, John McCargo and a third rounder Tank Tyler. All three players taken ended up flopping in the league after having solid college careers playing with Super Mario. Not to say this is always the case but I truely believe the chances of supporting players getting increased production can falsely raise grades.

I also tend to grade down guys who underachieve with tons of talent around them. Anthony Johnson ,who was highly recruited, is someone who flashes but really hasn't been a consistent playmarker despite being surounded by big time players. He is a guy some scouts will fall in love with because of potential ala Michael Brockers but I personally prefer the production of his teammate Ego Ferguson.

This is what I have so far:

1) Louis Nix III, Notre Dame- Explosive for a man of his size and has more scheme versatility then he gets credit for. Somewhere between Marcel Darreus and Phil Taylor in terms of skill set and can play "0"tech or traditional NT in a 4 man line.

2) Dominique Easley, Florida- Has experience as a 5-tech but best fit is as a UT in a 4 man line. Much better pass rusher then his former teammate Floyd who was in contention with Sheldon Richardson as the best DT prospect last year. Effective at knifing in the backfield and has the awareness to find the ball carrier especially when given a 1 gap assignment. Injuries are going to knock him down some boards but could be a steal in the 2nd/ 3rd round.

3) Ra'Shede Hageman, Minnesota- Versatility is Hageman's calling card and can potentially find a home in any scheme. He has the athleticism and size to play 3tech, 5tech, or NT in a 4 man lane. Has streaks that he can be unblockable, rips through double teams, or pursuits down the LOS. On the flip side technique and effort seem a little unconsistent and tends to lose battles when his pad level gets to high. Still has a learning curve even though he is a redshirt senior.

4) Kelcy Quarles, South Carolina- Extremely quick off of the snap with the acceleration to close space in a hurry. Tough to keep a body in front in pass protection and is squatty enough to get some push when single blocked. Continues to work through blocks even when stalled off of the initial rush. Sees a good amount of single blocks due to Clowney getting a ton of attention on the outside. Could stand to add more moves to his passrush and has some room to grow since he is only a redshirt sophmore. Also, has a thinner lower half that could stand some time in the weight room to add strength to anchor.

5) Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame- Highest potential out of any DT in the class but also comes with a considerable bust factor. Like Hageman can fit in a variety of schemes and could even be an option as a jumbo end in some 4 man fronts. Physically gifted with elite movement skills for a man of his size and is extremely hard to keep in front of when the effort is there. Surprisingly is a sub par run defender and can get completely washed out of plays that are run directly at him. Needs to do a better job of getting low to anchor but his mistakes are all be corrected with good coaching.

6) Timmy Jernigan, Florida St.- Jernigan is another potential UT with prototypical size and speed. Aggressive hand fighter that puts good effort in keeping linemen on their heels. Used in a heavy rotation at Florida St and gets most of his action at NT for the Seminols.

7) DaQuan Jones, Penn St- Powerful player with a strong closing burst in open space. Doesn't get enough hype but can play in both one gap and two gap schemes. Plays in spurts and can disapprear throughout the game and possibly has some conditioning issues.

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Old 11-29-2013, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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I haven't seen a single college football game this year, but why is Tuitt all of the sudden a DT? Wasn't he a really good DE?
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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I haven't seen a single college football game this year, but why is Tuitt all of the sudden a DT? Wasn't he a really good DE?
He plays 5 technique for the Irish and he rushs inside a lot.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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And he's over 300lbs.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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And he plays tall and is a terrible run defender. Perfect defensive tackle.
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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I really like Joey Mbu from Houston too, hes a 2015 guy but lots of upside.
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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When I saw Dominique Easley play the canes.. I couldn't help but think Tommie Harris (Former Bear).

With his burst off the snap
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Old 11-30-2013, 08:15 AM    (permalink
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I am a huge fan of Hageman, and he will never reach his potential if he's kept inside in the NFL. He's a 5 technique in an odd man front. Overall, this class of defensive tackles is nothing to get excited about.
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Old 12-01-2013, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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This is how I would separate them into 4/3 DT, 3/4 DE and NT


I would have these the top 5:

Ra'Shede Hageman Minnesota
Timmy Jernigan Florida State JR
Louis Nix III Notre Dame RS JR
Ego Ferguson LSU JR
Daniel McCullers Tennessee

Easley would be in the top 5 but depends if he can come back from the injury or not.



Hageman has so much potential and could easily be a 3/4 DE or a 4/3 DT. Has ideal size and pass rushing ability, good strength and is a good overall athlete. Yes he is a little raw but that is good because it gives him room to grow and I think he does have room to improve.

He has this season 11 TFL and 9 pass deflections 2 blocked kicks, only 2 sacks but potentially he has the piece ceiling and upside and has the best physical size and athletic ability compared to the other top defensive tackles. But it all ends up being what team is picking and what needs them have.





4/3 DT
Ra'Shede Hageman Minnesota
Timmy Jernigan Florida State JR
Louis Nix III Notre Dame RS JR
Ego Ferguson LSU JR
Dominique Easley Florida
Daniel McCullers Tennessee
DaQuan Jones Penn State
Anthony Johnson LSU JR
Aaron Donald Pitt
Will Sutton Arizona State
Beau Allen Wisconsin
Gabe Wright Auburn JR
Kelcy Quarles South Carolina JR
Derrick Hopkins Virginia Tech
Jeoffrey Pagan Alabama JR
Jay Bromley Syracuse
Josh Mauro Stanford
Tyler Hoover Michigan State
E.J. Dunston UCF
Quinton Washington Michigan
Roland Johnson Minnesota
Byran Jones Arkansas


3/4 DE
Ra'Shede Hageman Minnesota
Stephon Tuitt Notre Dame JR
Dominique Easley Florida
Brent Urban Virginia
Ed Stinson Alabama
Aaron Donald Pitt
Ben Gardner Stanford
Jeoffrey Pagan Alabama JR
Will Clarke West Virginia
Denico Autry Miss State
Darryl Cato-Bishop NC State
Taylor Hart Oregon
Tyler Hoover Michigan State
Dominic Alvis Iowa
Lee Pegues East Carolina


NT
Louis Nix III Notre Dame RS JR
Daniel McCullers Tennessee
Beau Allen Wisconsin
Justin Ellis La Tech
Calvin Tonga Colorado State
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Old 12-01-2013, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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I think a lot of you are sleeping on Donald. Easy to knock his size but he's going to be a beast of a rotational player for someone.
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Old 12-01-2013, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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GaMeTiMe I think a lot of you are sleeping on Donald. Easy to knock his size but he's going to be a beast of a rotational player for someone.
The guy is a stud but hard to pick him that high because of the height issue even though he does have really long arms. But this season he is having, easy to forget because Pitt is not on TV all that often.

26 TFLs!

That is crazy and in a different situation, in the senior bowl if he plays like he does on Pitt and impresses in the workouts he will be a very high pick. Will see what he does against the best competition, height is an issue again sure but I totally believe even if he slips to the 2nd or 3rd round the kid will make plays for the team he is with. As a 3/4 DE I think he could be the best fit, 4/3 DT depends on the team and the situation.


If the kid was 6-3 or 6-4 and 300, everyone would be saying top 10 pick with the numbers he puts up. But at 6-0 285 and I assume those are inflated also, he is probably more like 5-11 but his long arms really help him a lot on the field.

Elvis Dumervil is the only guy who comes to mind as a DL who is very short but really productive in college. But Dumervil fit into your 3/4 OLB pass rusher, not sure Donald could do that but maybe he can. If so then there is no height issue arguably, but not sure he is the athlete Dumervil was.


If he measures well, puts on a few pounds and workouts good he could gain momentum easily with how he performs on the field.
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Old 12-01-2013, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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Jernigan looked good against Florida yesterday. Consistently over loading OLmen from the NT position and causing disruptions all over the field.

4-3 teams will be salivating at a guy who can potentially rush from the NT spot.
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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I think a lot of you are sleeping on Donald. Easy to knock his size but he's going to be a beast of a rotational player for someone.
Rotational player. But can he be a 3-down UT for a 4-3 team? I think he's a better player than say, Drake Nevis, who was a similar sized player. But Nevis has bounced around a little and not been a guy teams can build around. I think that puts Donald behind every guy I listed in the OP. Especially, since I'm a Bears fan and I've seen the DTs get pushed around the last half of the season with every DT on the opening day roster out. I think the Bears need a potential stud, building block DT. And guys like Hageman, Tuitt, and Quarles are intriguing because of their height 6'4"+. Nix is intriguing because of his size and quickness. And guys like Jernigan, Sutton, and Johnson fit what the Bears have had success with....the guys that are lightning quick off the snap with the ability to shoot the gap and make plays in the backfield.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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rawdawg
Rotational player. But can he be a 3-down UT for a 4-3 team? I think he's a better player than say, Drake Nevis, who was a similar sized player. But Nevis has bounced around a little and not been a guy teams can build around. I think that puts Donald behind every guy I listed in the OP. Especially, since I'm a Bears fan and I've seen the DTs get pushed around the last half of the season with every DT on the opening day roster out. I think the Bears need a potential stud, building block DT. And guys like Hageman, Tuitt, and Quarles are intriguing because of their height 6'4"+. Nix is intriguing because of his size and quickness. And guys like Jernigan, Sutton, and Johnson fit what the Bears have had success with....the guys that are lightning quick off the snap with the ability to shoot the gap and make plays in the backfield.
Drake Nevis... similar size? How do you figure? Nevis is taller and much larger than Donald is. They are nothing alike I feel.

I think possibly if he actually loses some weight could be a pass rushing 3/4 OLB in the James Harrison mold. At this point that is the ideal I think for Donald and what he should go for. He is so good getting in the backfield, just can he be an edge rusher when he has always been rushing from the DT spot and beating guys with his long arms, low to the ground build and quickness. Still he can get to the QB and those guys always rise come draft day.
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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Drake Nevis... similar size? How do you figure? Nevis is taller and much larger than Donald is. They are nothing alike I feel.

I think possibly if he actually loses some weight could be a pass rushing 3/4 OLB in the James Harrison mold. At this point that is the ideal I think for Donald and what he should go for. He is so good getting in the backfield, just can he be an edge rusher when he has always been rushing from the DT spot and beating guys with his long arms, low to the ground build and quickness. Still he can get to the QB and those guys always rise come draft day.
Nevis was 6005, 292 at the combine. Donald is listed at 6001, 285. Less than 1/2 inch and 7lb difference. Nevis probably put on weight for the combine too as he was listed at the same 285 that Donald is now.
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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No mention of Ryan Carrethers? I did a Cowboys mock in our team forum and gave him to us in Round 2. Maybe that's too high.



He's a BEAST! (I love using that overly used word! lol)
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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Truly sad that size is such a supposed concern for Aaron Donald.

He just took away the...

Outland Trophy (Outstanding Interior Linman)
Vince Lombardi Award (Outstanding Lineman/Linebacker)
Chuck Bednarik Award (Defensive Player of the Year)
Bronco Nagurski Trophy (Defensive Player of the Year)


I don't believe anyone's won all four, before.
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