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Old 12-04-2013, 05:49 PM    (permalink
shylo3716
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Default QB Stocks Class of 2014

With Teddy Bridgewater becoming the lone star for the QB position without a battle for 1st place, what lies ahead for the rest of the field now that Marcus Mariota returns Zach Mettenberger has an ACL injury to drop him off on boards.

Johnny Manziel has played his way back into First Round talks towards the end of his season. Derek Carr has skyrocketed out of nowhere and now AJ McCarron has been buzzing as of yesterday and will continue with his expected Senior Bowl invite. Tajh Boyd may have been written off throughout the season, but all it takes is for him to perform at a high level in the Senior Bowl and we may be talking about an E.J. Manuel type of stock recover.

Could we possibly see a guy such as Braxton Miller become persuaded to enter his name in if he performs really well in the Nat'l Title Game and Brett Hundley decides to stay in school.

Don't get too down about this QB class not shaping up the way you may want it to end up. For all we know more than a handful may rise to the occasion.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Blake Bortles. I see him declaring with mariota and Hundley not. Should be a top 20 pick IMO.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:41 PM    (permalink
shylo3716
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I'm just hoping Braxton Miller comes out this year. I actually would like to see him in Arizona sitting behind Palmer for a year.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown
The most important thing, however, is how strong their swagger factors are.
Newton
South of the Mason Dixon +10 swagger
Barely literate +5 swagger
Thief +15 swagger
Kicked off of a team of thugs +20 swagger
Big, average speed -3 swagger
Hasn't done jacksquat on the field +15 swagger
Total Swagger: 62
ATL College Park Zone 3* +20 swagger Bonus pts

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Old 12-04-2013, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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Like you said Bridgewater is easily the top QB, and I'm disappointed to not see Mettenberger after his injury. I like him most after Bridgewater and Hundley and I think he'll end up being a 1st around pick with a similar play/career as Joe Flacco
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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I'm just hoping Braxton Miller comes out this year. I actually would like to see him in Arizona sitting behind Palmer for a year.
Arians has been on the record he wants his QBs playing from the pocket. Miller is the complete opposite of that, I also do not see him as a first round QB. It seems that every "athletic" QB is all of the sudden a first round talent - it's hilarious. Has anyone watched the NFL this year? The spread option has been figured out, the QBs doing the best are those that play from within the pocket and have the ability to keep plays alive by moving around within the pocket.
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Arians has been on the record he wants his QBs playing from the pocket. Miller is the complete opposite of that, I also do not see him as a first round QB. It seems that every "athletic" QB is all of the sudden a first round talent - it's hilarious. Has anyone watched the NFL this year? The spread option has been figured out, the QBs doing the best are those that play from within the pocket and have the ability to keep plays alive by moving around within the pocket.
I'd go with Tajh Boyd before I would Miller. I wouldn't be so quick saying Bridgewater is the #1 QB either.
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Old 12-04-2013, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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I really want to find out if Blake Bortles is going to declare now. He can have a really large impact on this draft class and to me he's a guy who can legitimately contend with Bridgewater for the #1 QB spot depending on how the offseason goes.

I've watched a couple of Jimmy Garoppolo's games lately and I came away very impressed. Obviously his level of competition is a serious question mark and he can be sloppy at times but he has one of the best physical skill sets in this class and he's a 4 year starter. With Mariota's decision to go back to school and Mettenberger's injury I don't think it's impossible that we could see a team that needs a Qb fall in love with him and take him in the first round like Joe Flacco.

I would say that Manziel has hurt his stock over the past few games as teams have forced him to beat them with his arm and he's struggled.

Basically though all of the Qbs not named Mettenberger have had their stocks raised based off what's happened the past week.
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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I have to think that Bridgewater, Carr and Fales are all first round QBs. I wouldn't be shocked to see any of those three be the first QB off the board.

I especially think Fales could be a guy to watch as we get to the Senior Bowl and pre-draft workouts/interview. He put some tape up against Fresno that scouts were looking for and legitimize him as more than just a small school guy. If he shows the ability to throw darts in workouts and such, he is probably a top 15 guy.
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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I feel like this is a great year for developmental QB's. For example I could see the Bronco's drafting David Fales (assuming he falls to round 3 or so) to sit and develop behind Peyton Manning. I can see Mettenberger getting drafted by the Patriots to heal and develop behind Brady. And guys like Bortles and Garoppolo I can and would love to see develop into franchise QB's with the right coaching/mentor. Again, this is all assuming these guy's drop to mid rounds. Every year everyone mock's like five QB's in the first round when only two or three end up going. I can see all of these guys falling.

Also I can see Bridgewater, Manziel and Carr being starters right away. McCarron, Boyd and Murray I think will be busts.

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Old 12-04-2013, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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Bridgewater will NOT be the first QB selected. Not because of suckitude, instead someone else's stock is going to skyrocket prior to April.
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:59 AM    (permalink
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I have to think that Bridgewater, Carr and Fales are all first round QBs. I wouldn't be shocked to see any of those three be the first QB off the board.

I especially think Fales could be a guy to watch as we get to the Senior Bowl and pre-draft workouts/interview. He put some tape up against Fresno that scouts were looking for and legitimize him as more than just a small school guy. If he shows the ability to throw darts in workouts and such, he is probably a top 15 guy.
I see Fales as a 4th round pick at best - just doesn't have the arm. Down the field throws tend to be touch passes - just can't step in and zip it in there like a Carr, Mettenberger or even a Stephen Morris or Logan Thomas - all of whom I would anticipate going before Fales. Not to mention at times this year he's been poor (UNLV game particularly - but also not great in the Utah State and Wyoming games; big mistake in the Navy game at a crucial time).
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:17 AM    (permalink
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It will be interesting to see where Fales and Carr go. I don't watch practically any college ball because of other priorities, but I like what I've seen from Carr with his arm. Fales is a local kid so I want to see how far he can go.
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:40 AM    (permalink
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I like the things I've seen from Jimmy Garoppolo, too. There's some intriguing things there.

I used to really love Tajh Boyd, but the more I've watched of him, the more some pretty bad red flags have jumped out at me. Or I suppose, THE red flag has really jumped out at me. Sometimes his accuracy is just atrocious. I haven't exactly figured out why yet. I really like the way he moves in the pocket, and I think his athleticism is perfectly suited to extend plays in the NFL. I don't think he's a "runner;" I think he's a scrambler. I think he runs to throw. I like his toughness and willingness to hang in the pocket, and when you think about it, that trait in itself adds to his accuracy and consistency. It's one thing to have some streaky accuracy; it's another to lose your accuracy under pressure or when you're on the move. I think Tajh is pretty consistent in that regard - it's more that he'll just throw some terrible passes out of nowhere and it frankly kind of confuses me, because other times he'll thread one right on the money. I'm probably going to put as much time into watching him as anyone in the offseason. Right now, I could see him going in the mid-to-late rounds and not doing a thing, or he could be the second coming of Donovan McNabb. I still love the McNabb comparison, whether Boyd excels or not, because they basically have the same strengths and weaknesses.
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:06 AM    (permalink
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I think a lot of Boyd's accuracy problems come off the back of the zone-read running game. If he fakes the ZR run and then throws his feet are very static and he's often chest on. That means he's not snapping his hips as well as accuracy suffering as he can't get his shoulders square. The other problem I feel he has is that he doesn't like pressure - well no QB does, but him even more so - and as a result he doesn't step into his throws and at times he'll have his weight on his back foot/falling away. His decision making under pressure can also be poor - seems to panic a bit and just get the ball out anywhere.

The other issue is that because of the Clemson offense he lacks experience going through progressions. He's like Geno Smith - 2 reads and run guy and you've seen how that works in the league compared to a Mike Glennon who was much better with his eyes.

Boyd is a gifted athlete with a good arm. For me he needs to play in a spread type system to have immediate success. He's not the tallest (just under 6'1"), but I wouldn't expect that to be a major issue in a spread system. Apparently intangibles are good which should help in the pre-Draft process.

I think in general the media has over rated him - we'll see what happens at the Senior Bowl.
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:15 AM    (permalink
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I'm just hoping Braxton Miller comes out this year. I actually would like to see him in Arizona sitting behind Palmer for a year.
It would do Miller a lot of good to stay for at least another year. I think he could be a first round guy if he continues to develop as a passer. Obviously he has the arm strength and is a special kind of runner but I just can't imagine him going to the NFL this year and making it (again not to say he won't ever make it).
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:57 AM    (permalink
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Staying another year playing for Urban Meyer won't do Miller a damn bit of good as far as developing his game for the pros.

If he stays to get his degree, fine. Otherwise Miller is best served to enter the draft and make a team's final 53.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:03 AM    (permalink
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I'm just hoping Braxton Miller comes out this year. I actually would like to see him in Arizona sitting behind Palmer for a year.
More likely to sit behind somebody for a career unless he has a successful position switch.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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It would do Miller a lot of good to stay for at least another year. I think he could be a first round guy if he continues to develop as a passer. Obviously he has the arm strength and is a special kind of runner but I just can't imagine him going to the NFL this year and making it (again not to say he won't ever make it).
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Staying another year playing for Urban Meyer won't do Miller a damn bit of good as far as developing his game for the pros.

If he stays to get his degree, fine. Otherwise Miller is best served to enter the draft and make a team's final 53.
What he said ^ Besides the point I brought up of him leaving early, what good does it for him if he stays in to be in the mix with Winston Mariota Hundley etc.?

Strike now while your career is at an all-time high. All eyes will be on him Jan. 6th, all he has to do is manage the game, limit turnovers and show that he is accurate enough to hit his targets because the strength is already there.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:17 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
More likely to sit behind somebody for a career unless he has a successful position switch.
Does not make sense! You are making out as if Palmer has a lengthy career ahead of him. A year or 2 wouldn't hurt Miller to sit and learn, besides the weapons will still be there for him once he takes over. Didn't want to do it but Aaron Rodgers sat now look at him and by no means I am comparing the two as players, just situation.
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The most important thing, however, is how strong their swagger factors are.
Newton
South of the Mason Dixon +10 swagger
Barely literate +5 swagger
Thief +15 swagger
Kicked off of a team of thugs +20 swagger
Big, average speed -3 swagger
Hasn't done jacksquat on the field +15 swagger
Total Swagger: 62
ATL College Park Zone 3* +20 swagger Bonus pts
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:53 AM    (permalink
JoeJoeBrown
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Miller needs time to develop under center, not out of the shotgun where he is at now in the clap clap offense.

He too often relies on his athleticism to get away from defenders after holding the ball for too long. He still gets sacked quite a bit, often for huge losses.

That habit will get him killed in the NFL. He needs to learn how to throw it away after a clock in his head goes off.

He is getting far better at reads, but needs to improve the consistency of his accuracy. He is accurate quite a bit, but will go through some serious slumps.

He does not appear to be throwing well in cold weather this year.

His elite OL and Carlos Hyde are giving him oodles of time.

That said, if I were him and got a 2nd round grade, I'd GTFO and learn a pro style system. The kid has brains, a great attitude, and tons of athleticism. He just needs to practice his ass off and get reps as a pro style QB. Even a giant horse like him will get killed running in the NFL.

Running should be rarely used in the NFL for a QB. Giant, fast, strong, 300lb humans trying to break you apart on every play will kill any QB if you let them get a bunch of contact.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:59 AM    (permalink
shylo3716
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Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown View Post
Miller needs time to develop under center, not out of the shotgun where he is at now in the clap clap offense.

He too often relies on his athleticism to get away from defenders after holding the ball for too long. He still gets sacked quite a bit, often for huge losses.

That habit will get him killed in the NFL. He needs to learn how to throw it away after a clock in his head goes off.

He is getting far better at reads, but needs to improve the consistency of his accuracy. He is accurate quite a bit, but will go through some serious slumps.

He does not appear to be throwing well in cold weather this year.

His elite OL and Carlos Hyde are giving him oodles of time.

That said, if I were him and got a 2nd round grade, I'd GTFO and learn a pro style system. The kid has brains, a great attitude, and tons of athleticism. He just needs to practice his ass off and get reps as a pro style QB. Even a giant horse like him will get killed running in the NFL.

Running should be rarely used in the NFL for a QB. Giant, fast, strong, 300lb humans trying to break you apart on every play will kill any QB if you let them get a bunch of contact.
I was about to make an argument until you decided to agree with me throughout your post.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown
The most important thing, however, is how strong their swagger factors are.
Newton
South of the Mason Dixon +10 swagger
Barely literate +5 swagger
Thief +15 swagger
Kicked off of a team of thugs +20 swagger
Big, average speed -3 swagger
Hasn't done jacksquat on the field +15 swagger
Total Swagger: 62
ATL College Park Zone 3* +20 swagger Bonus pts
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:59 AM    (permalink
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Staying another year playing for Urban Meyer won't do Miller a damn bit of good as far as developing his game for the pros.

If he stays to get his degree, fine. Otherwise Miller is best served to enter the draft and make a team's final 53.
There are plenty things you can learn by playing an extra year of college no matter what style system you're in. Simple consistency in your mechanics and learning to throw before a guy is open instead of waiting until after he is open to get rid of him, or holding onto the ball too long are things in particular that he needs to work on that, and I'm sure NFL teams would prefer he was better at those things before they put him in a game as their QB. He needs to show that he can improve in the mental aspect of the game as well, he's not very cerebral.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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There are plenty things you can learn by playing an extra year of college no matter what style system you're in. Simple consistency in your mechanics and learning to throw before a guy is open instead of waiting until after he is open to get rid of him, or holding onto the ball too long are things in particular that he needs to work on that, and I'm sure NFL teams would prefer he was better at those things before they put him in a game as their QB. He needs to show that he can improve in the mental aspect of the game as well, he's not very cerebral.
You can also get hurt. If you don't have much upside by staying, GTFO and learn what you will be doing for a career while also making money.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:31 AM    (permalink
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That is the case usually if you're gonna be a top 10 pick, which I don't Braxton is. I think he can be a first rounder next year if he stays and has a good year. He has so much more to gain by staying.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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I think Urban Meyer is a QB killer where the NFL is concerned. His best QBs are remedial players once they get to the NFL and have to be taught everything from the ground up.

I have hard time believing Braxton Miller will any better next season than he is right now having Urban Meyer as his HC.

I bet you Meyer values Miller's speed and mobility more than his skill throwing the football.
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