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Old 12-18-2013, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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I'd almost guarantee Jameis is never in another off the field incident again.
Unless some things come out, a la Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryant......
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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Really surprised to see both these guys in a discussion like this.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves based on one great Heisman-winning season here.

Winston is not that great.

I'll put my money on Newton, Wilson, Luck, even Tannehill achieving more in the NFL. But time will tell.
So, you don't think it takes someone great to achieve all that he has?
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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If we're talking about both of them as RS freshman then Winston is waaay ahead. Luck was just a passenger on the Gerhart train. The offense was try to give Gerhart 30 carries and pick up some 3rd downs when needed. Winston is better than early Luck no doubt, but he isn't quite on the same level as Luck when he finally came out.
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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If we're talking about both of them as RS freshman then Winston is waaay ahead. Luck was just a passenger on the Gerhart train. The offense was try to give Gerhart 30 carries and pick up some 3rd downs when needed.
I'm assuming that we're discussing RS freshman Winston vs. 2012 NFL Draft Andrew Luck as it's obvious that Winston is a superior RS freshman. I don't think that Winston is already a better prospect than Luck was when he was drafted. Some people here seem to have that opinion though.
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Old 12-19-2013, 12:52 AM    (permalink
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By the time Winston enters the draft he will be a better prospect then Luck and will be better then him in the NFL.
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Old 12-19-2013, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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I think Newton achieved more in his one year than Winston had. With less surrounding talent, he won the title over a pretty loaded Oregon team.

I would take Luck over Winston, I would take Newton over Winston. But I would probably put Winston at this point over RG3, and everyone under him as well.

So #3 QB in the last 7-8 years.
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Old 12-19-2013, 01:47 AM    (permalink
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I think Newton achieved more in his one year than Winston had. With less surrounding talent, he won the title over a pretty loaded Oregon team.

I would take Luck over Winston, I would take Newton over Winston. But I would probably put Winston at this point over RG3, and everyone under him as well.

So #3 QB in the last 7-8 years.
I find this fair, and not living in the moment. I would like to stress the fact that Jameis is younger than Cam was, though. Cam had already spent time at Florida and won a CC championship before his time at Auburn. Jameis is a teenager still. Blows my mind.
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:25 AM    (permalink
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Obviously the games different now that it has been in the past with the spreads becoming easier for a raw QB to step in with bad footwork and fundamentals and still be successful with athleticism but its crazy to look at what Winston has accomplished this year as a teenager with 40 TDs and compare to what Luck did as a freshman if I remember around a 14/9 TD INT ratio and guys like Jimmy Clausen that barely passed for 1000 yards in almost double digit starts and most recently Barkley.

Winston seems so football smart and Jimbo teaching him can't hurt either. I never like QB to come out after there true junior year and especially redshirt sophomore year just because a lot of statistics of the last 50 years show not many QBs have been successful with that little amount of starts in the college game before entering the NFL but just because that has been the case in the past doesn't mean its impossible. Cam Newton is an example of that with only 1 year starting and passing for 4000 yards as a rookie.

I don't think anyone will be on Andrew Lucks level for a while just because he's such a rare player who is one of the best prospects of all time in any sport right up there with Crosby in hockey and LeBron in basketball and Bryce Harper in baseball. BUT Jameis is pretty rare in his own right and I watched Bo Knows documentary tonight and it kinda makes you have hope in those special players and jameis certainly fits the bill. I guess in the scheme of things these debates don't really matter because they will never happen but a better one next year will be Winston vs Mariotta
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:58 AM    (permalink
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You guys way undervalue Luck's mental side of the game and also his ability to win games. The guy has dog **** around him for a supporting cast and he still goes out, puts up solid stats, and just wins. Winston currently is way behind Luck when Luck came out. Winston will be a good one, but I don't think he'll be better than Luck as a prospect, or in the NFL. Luck just has everything imaginable in a QB.

This coming from an FSU fan.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:36 AM    (permalink
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You guys way undervalue Luck's mental side of the game and also his ability to win games. The guy has dog **** around him for a supporting cast and he still goes out, puts up solid stats, and just wins. Winston currently is way behind Luck when Luck came out. Winston will be a good one, but I don't think he'll be better than Luck as a prospect, or in the NFL. Luck just has everything imaginable in a QB.

This coming from an FSU fan.
What physical advantage does Luck have over Winston?? None.
Jameis has elite arm strength, not a decent functional arm like Luck.


Accuracy?? I could argue even at this point that Jameis Winston is every bit as accurate as Andrew Luck right now.

People are assuming that Luck coming out of Stanford was more advanced with his footwork, ability to go through progressions and read defenses. If so, it's not by much. Luck was more experienced when he left Stanford, but it's hard to say he's better at those skills than Jameis.

Work ethic, mental football acumen, leadership...take your pick but IMO Winston scores off the charts in all three of these categories too.

People talk as if FSU was a consensus nat'l championship contender before the start of the season. They were not. Winston turned them into one.

Whenever Winston decides to leave FSU, Jameis is going to be one of those alltime prospects at QB. His game is so sophisticated right now for a 19 year old. If he stays for two more years, Jameis could end up being the guy all other QB prospects are compared.
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:11 AM    (permalink
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To add onto what FUNBUNCHER said, there are things that Jameis has that separates him from Luck. Stronger arm, little better improvisational skills, much better deep ball, much more proven downfield passer.

So what is it Luck did better than Winston does? Honestly, I'm not sure I can pinpoint...anything.
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:22 AM    (permalink
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I.am trying to think back and even in his 10 interceptions only one, maybe 2 were bad decisions. The one against Wake where he forced a pass to try and get areserve TE a reception in a blow out was the worst one, and the first interception against Miami, second one was on O'Leary. The one against Florida was blatant DPI.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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I'd draft RS Freshman Jameis over Luck when he came out as a RS Jr.
holy ****, talk about getting caught up in the hype
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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What physical advantage does Luck have over Winston?? None.
Jameis has elite arm strength, not a decent functional arm like Luck.


Accuracy?? I could argue even at this point that Jameis Winston is every bit as accurate as Andrew Luck right now.

People are assuming that Luck coming out of Stanford was more advanced with his footwork, ability to go through progressions and read defenses. If so, it's not by much. Luck was more experienced when he left Stanford, but it's hard to say he's better at those skills than Jameis.

Work ethic, mental football acumen, leadership...take your pick but IMO Winston scores off the charts in all three of these categories too.

People talk as if FSU was a consensus nat'l championship contender before the start of the season. They were not. Winston turned them into one.

Whenever Winston decides to leave FSU, Jameis is going to be one of those alltime prospects at QB. His game is so sophisticated right now for a 19 year old. If he stays for two more years, Jameis could end up being the guy all other QB prospects are compared.
"Decent functional arm strength" lol. If that's indeed the case what do you make of Matt Ryan's arm? Keep hating since you are half way up on the mountain and it's hard to get back down . Hope you beloved RG3 can stick in the league for a few more years.

Luck's reading of defense progression exhibited in the VT game alone 3 years ago was something that Winston hasn't shown he's in possession of. Despite the lopsided scoreline, the two numbers could be easily switched around if given any QB who can't really break down coverages. Winston has displayed pocket elusiveness. So what, RG3 has that too. Same as Newton. Elusiveness is not the same as footwork in the pocket. Griffin showed tremendous elusiveness as well at Baylor. How's his footwork helping him stand upright in the NFL?
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Don't bring RG3 and Newton into this.

Jameis Winston is a much better pro prospect by several degrees than both of them.

Sorry, but there are throws Luck struggles to make if he doesn't have proper anticipation because he lacks elite velocity on his throws.
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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holy ****, talk about getting caught up in the hype
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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Luck's reading of defense progression exhibited in the VT game alone 3 years ago was something that Winston hasn't shown he's in possession of.
Ummm what? Jameis Winston was showing this ability in full force during the Pittsburgh game, hell his first TD pass was a direct result of this ability. As a RS-Freshman he is directing what will go down as the best offense in the history of College Football (assuming they score 26 points vs. Auburn). This is in large part because he consistently checks FSU into the right play based on what the defense is doing and adjusting to get his team into position to succeed.
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Old 12-19-2013, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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TIL that jameis winston is reggie bush, but two full years sooner reggie bush was the best running back in nfl history.

actually, that's not true. winston is apparently completely flawless. i think even his staunchest defenders at least mentioned bush's size or something.
These are my thoughts exactly. I have no problem with people saying he's the best RS Freshman QB prospect of all-time and I absolutely agree with that. I have no problem with people arguing that they would rather have RS freshman Jameis Winston than 2012 draft Andrew Luck. I don't agree with that but you can make the case that Winston's superior physical talents and polish at this age trump Luck being more NFL ready. I do have a problem with people making Winston out to be more than he is though. There have been better physical talents at the position and there have been guys who were more polished as prospects coming out. He's not a perfect prospect despite what people seem to want to believe.
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Does the baseball option bother anyone here?

I'd post the link here, but he indicated he wants to continue playing baseball for Florida State, and that he wants to be better than Bo Jackson.

Not really a red flag, but definitely opens the possibility for an Elway-type hostage situation in the future.
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Gotta ask this. How many of you think Jameis Winston is the best QB prospect of all time, followed closely in second by Teddy Bridgewater?
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Crickett View Post
Gotta ask this. How many of you think Jameis Winston is the best QB prospect of all time, followed closely in second by Teddy Bridgewater?
Hes at least a once in a decade type guy, there is one every year
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Crickett View Post
Gotta ask this. How many of you think Jameis Winston is the best QB prospect of all time, followed closely in second by Teddy Bridgewater?

Obviously you jest, sir.

However it's not a stretch to assume if Jameis improves as a QB in 2014, there won't be many QBs if at all you can reasonably compare to him as a pro prospect.

Winston will be all of the ripe old age of 20 years old and have a skillset few prospects if ever can boast.

If Winston stays for TWO more years at FSU, yeah I'm fairly confident in saying he's going to be the best pro QB prospect in years.

Bridgewater has his own issues.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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I'll say I do think Winston is better at this point in his career than Luck was at his, but...

There is just something about Winston that screams duplicitous and utterly untrustworthy. The rape accusation does concern me, but there is much more actual solid information that give me great pause on this kid.

Believe it or not, the BB gun broken windows and soda stealing actually bother me quite a bit. When you're drafting a QB in this day and age, one of my pre-requisites would be that my franchise guy would need exceptional maturity, which he clearly has shown he does not possess. Nobody with impeccable character has these kind of things hanging over their head.

Also, when I watch him on TV, he just gives me the creeps. I get a politician-like phoniness and smugness from this guy. At 19 years old, he already comes off like a seasoned sociopath.

Take his handling of getting cleared of the rape allegations. He said time and again, something to the effect of "I did nothing wrong." No cheating on your longtime GF wasn't wrong. And I'm sure you nothing short of a saint in the actions that led to your accusation in the first place.

I really do hope I'm wrong, but I get the feeling Jameis Winston is just a bad guy.

P.S. I would still probably take him second in this draft after Teddy Bridgewater.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye View Post
I'll say I do think Winston is better at this point in his career than Luck was at his, but...

There is just something about Winston that screams duplicitous and utterly untrustworthy. The rape accusation does concern me, but there is much more actual solid information that give me great pause on this kid.

Believe it or not, the BB gun broken windows and soda stealing actually bother me quite a bit. When you're drafting a QB in this day and age, one of my pre-requisites would be that my franchise guy would need exceptional maturity, which he clearly has shown he does not possess. Nobody with impeccable character has these kind of things hanging over their head.

Also, when I watch him on TV, he just gives me the creeps. I get a politician-like phoniness and smugness from this guy. At 19 years old, he already comes off like a seasoned sociopath.

Take his handling of getting cleared of the rape allegations. He said time and again, something to the effect of "I did nothing wrong." No cheating on your longtime GF wasn't wrong. And I'm sure you nothing short of a saint in the actions that led to your accusation in the first place.

I really do hope I'm wrong, but I get the feeling Jameis Winston is just a bad guy.

P.S. I would still probably take him second in this draft after Teddy Bridgewater.
Well, I will say this. While I think Jameis Winston is getting hyped as too far as every potential #1 QB prospect that has come before him, I had similar issues that you are describing with Cam Newton. I got the feeling that Cam Newton was a disingenuous lying ************ and wouldn't be able to be an effective QB because he wouldn't be able to develop a rapport with anyone on whatever team drafted him.


And I was completely wrong.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
holy ****, talk about getting caught up in the hype
Give me your logic, not your emotion. Don't act outraged without having a legitimate response to this question.
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So what is it Luck did better than Winston does?
That's not to say that Luck was worse at everything than Jameis because there are a number of areas where they are on a very similar level but for those of you who are outraged at this notion that a RS Freshman could possibly be better than Luck, what areas of game made Luck a decidedly better football player/prospect than Winston?

...

Luck was never quite as special to ridiculous degree that many made him out to be though I also get that there's still those that are reluctant to give freshman/rookies too much credit too soon. But it's actually funny to me that people are trying to attribute any Jameis > Luck talk to short-sightedness yet there's clearly a mindset among some "draftniks" of wanting to believe Andrew Luck (drafted 2 years ago by the way) was the greatest prospect they'll ever see in the same 80's babies want to believe no one will ever be as good as Jordan.
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