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View Poll Results: Should we give up on Tarvaris?
Yes, Jackson isn't the answer and we should draft another QB 11 14.47%
No, give Jackson one more year at least. 56 73.68%
We should give up on Jackson but not go QB 1st round 0 0%
Other (Explain in reply) 9 11.84%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-20-2007, 03:44 PM    (permalink
FatViking
 
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The moral to this one is ..Brady Quinn better resembles Peyton Manning from that 1998 draft where the 1 hit wonder Ryan Leaf better resembles
a certain "big armed physical wonder" from L.S.U.
Manning went first in the draft; nearly all projections have Jamarcus going before your little college love no matter where both of them fall.

As for other examples of high drafts picks spent on the second quarterback in a draft:

Joey Harrington after David Carr. Harrington broke numerous records while he started for three years at Oregon and actually won a couple bowl games. He finished in the top four for the Heisman voting in 01. Sure looks like he was a good investment now.

Byron Leftwich after Palmer. At Marshall Leftwich broke nearly broke records putting himself in numerous second places behind Chad Pennington's records there. He even won an MVP while winning a bowl game. I will give you this; Leftwich has had some a couple of really good seasons over the past few years. But the fact now is he has been competing for a starting job with Garrard, a forth rounder. A forth rounder.

Rivers after Manning. No doubt Rivers has worked out so far with LT running along side him, but there wasn't much hype about him. Manning however sure hasn't so far and look at all the hype he had.

Then we have Aaron Rogers after Alex Smith, but this one still has no results due to Brett Farve throwing touchdowns out of a walker.

The fact is last year was a draft that will never compare to other drafts at the QB position. Vince will be amazing for years to come sparing any injury. And Leinart should throw up some amazing stats as well. Hell, even Cutler should work well in the system he has found himself in.

As much as you want Brady Quinn to be everyone's hero he is just another big first rounder QB with a question mark surrounding his name. Get a hanger for his rookie jersey so you can place in the closet next to Joey Harrington rookie jersey. And even after the first two QBs in some of these drafts there were even more misses: Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, Tim Rattay, J.P. Losman and possibly Jason Campbell. All first rounders.

Brady Quinn is going to be that next first round miss. I sure hope Phil Savage choses to ruin another season for Cleveland rather than letting good ol' Rick and Brad do it in Minnesota.
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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First Id just like to say harrington has had alot of help frist in detriot then he goes and plays in an entirely new system in miami which they gave up on him after one year. had the packers done that the first time Brett favre threw 20 ints we would all know how good Rodgers is.

Second im not sure how a guy who played in the super bowl last year is thrown in the busts catagory especially since last year was his first full year at qb

Third I can think of alot of first rounders who lost there jobs to late rounders that doesnt exactly make them busts. I remember that happening a few years ago in New England.

Can we give Jason Campbell a shot to play a couple years before we throw him in thescrap heap?

Personally I didnt think JP losman looked that bad when he handed the vikings their ass. And last year Id say he played pretty well. Atleast better then anyone we had on our roster.

Phil Savage is very good at his job. I assure you he will more then make the right descions for his team. I also Assure you had we got him in minnesota we wouldnt of taken two steps back last year.

The basic moral to this story is simple Qb's have to land in a good situation to succeed Lienart landed on a very good team. Vince young landed on a very young but well coached team. Cutler landed in a great situation. We are neither well coached or very talented on the offensive sie of the ball. That became ever so obvious last year as other peoples defenses steadily out socred our offense.

Brady Quinn would be a nice fit for a west coast offense. Hed be a better fit at the number two pick at detriot which i just keep thinking that is where hes going.
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:52 PM    (permalink
Severe Punishment
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Holy Christ, U2 have serious issues.

All I know is when you have a chance to take a Peyton Manning you do it.
You don't worry about what people will think...especially when you're hoisting the Lombardi at the end of the season.
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Old 04-21-2007, 03:54 AM    (permalink
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Brady Quinn is no Peyton Manning that is crazy!!!!!!!!
And this arguement is mute I doubt Brady is there and if he is I even doubt more that the vikes would take him. When the Eagles still have a couple wide outs they havent traded us who cant catch the ball. Or a guard who didnt start. There has to be a KNock down childress trade out there some where. Maybe the Number 7 over all for Correll Buckhalter or Jerome Mcdougal something that makes no freakin sense the vikings trade the number 7 pick to the eagles for their 7th rounder and the rights to JAWS if he ever decides to come out of retirement
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Old 04-21-2007, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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Wow, if he was another Peyton Manning he would be going number 1, or at least be the first quarterback taken, which he won't and that is why this is an issue for the Vikings. We are only the second team, third if you want to count Detroit, in the draft that is projected to even think about drafting him by the 7th pick.

As for a QB getting into the situation to be successful, you are completely right. But just because Grossman got into the Super Bowl doesn’t make him a great quarterback, he is not someone who can take things on his shoulders. But I don't blame him for losing the Super Bowl, it was their D, the Bears got there because of outstanding D and a few weapons of the other side of the ball that could score some points. In the SB they gave away over 400 yards. But when he had a chance to shine and show if he could take over games, he failed.

A first round QB, especially a top 10 first round QB should be the future, a franchise type player, not someone who can score 10 points a game and know they stand a chance to win. We are not looking for one guy who might put us past the playoffs mark. We are looking for someone who can win us games. Brady Quinn is not that player.
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Old 04-21-2007, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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All I know is when you have a chance to take a Peyton Manning you do it.
You don't worry about what people will think...especially when you're hoisting the Lombardi at the end of the season.
I guarantee, I don't care what team takes Brady Quinn, if he starts this season at any time for them before the playoffs, that team will not be hoisting the Lombardi at the end of the season. Guaranteed.
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Old 04-23-2007, 02:43 PM    (permalink
Severe Punishment
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Wow, if he was another Peyton Manning he would be going number 1, or at least be the first quarterback taken, which he won't and that is why this is an issue for the Vikings. We are only the second team, third if you want to count Detroit, in the draft that is projected to even think about drafting him by the 7th pick.
Ummmm....you must be to young to remember the Peyton Manning / Ryan Leaf controversy. Manning was the clear cut #1...but the split on draft day was 50/50.
Experts can only grade prospects....both Manning and Leaf graded out around the same. Some even labeled Leaf the "prospect with the lower floor" because of his "Giant arm".....this year it's the exact same thing.
The big arm of Russell makes him a 'better fit' for the Raiders....however if he doesn't go #1....I can see him slipping to 6 or so. He's not that great of a QB...prospect ? sure..but his mechanics aren't consistent, he only has 29 career
starts and has alot longer to go than Quinn does.
If the Raiders make JR the top pick, I promise you they don't win 3 games next year.


And when did I say anything about Quinn hoisting the Lombardi his first year ????????

Jesus, get a clue...here, how about this.
You don't pass on getting a ferrari because you managed to overpay for a
top of the line Honda Civic the year before.

Last edited by Severe Punishment : 04-23-2007 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 04-24-2007, 03:02 AM    (permalink
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Well lets face it doesnt matter who the raiders take with the first pick if they dont address their line. they already have a loaded wide out crew who cant even get open due to the fact thier qb is sacked with in 3 seconds of the time the play starts.

And as far as this arguement goes The Best qb doesnt always go first

Manning
Brady
Favre
McNabb
Rivers
Green
Bulger
Culpepper
None of these qbs were taken first pick over all all of them when healthy are better then the guys taken much earlier then them all of them have played in playoff games and some in superbowls
So the whole Critics know everything is ********
Also Intangibles come into play along with solid coaching and consistant coaching staffs. I hate the whole System QB argument The fact is ALL QB'S ARE BETTER WHEN THEY PLAY IN A CONSITANT SYSTEM.
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Old 04-24-2007, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Well lets face it doesnt matter who the raiders take with the first pick if they dont address their line. they already have a loaded wide out crew who cant even get open due to the fact thier qb is sacked with in 3 seconds of the time the play starts.

And as far as this arguement goes The Best qb doesnt always go first

Manning
Brady
Favre
McNabb
Rivers
Green
Bulger
Culpepper
None of these qbs were taken first pick over all all of them when healthy are better then the guys taken much earlier then them all of them have played in playoff games and some in superbowls
So the whole Critics know everything is ********
Also Intangibles come into play along with solid coaching and consistant coaching staffs. I hate the whole System QB argument The fact is ALL QB'S ARE BETTER WHEN THEY PLAY IN A CONSITANT SYSTEM.

Well, both Manning brothers were picked first overall in each of their drafts.

The system qb argument is a solid argument because each team has different requirements from the QB position. Manning has been destroying records and finally just won his first Super Bowl. The one who owns most of these records, Dan Marino never won it all. Trent Dilfer wasn't being lifted on his shoulders in 2000 because of his amazing skills and numbers, but he has ring thanks to playing for the Ravens with that amazing D. Numbers don't compare to wins and rings, and the want to win is one intangible no coach can create in a player.
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Old 04-24-2007, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Ummmm....you must be to young to remember the Peyton Manning / Ryan Leaf controversy. Manning was the clear cut #1...but the split on draft day was 50/50.
Experts can only grade prospects....both Manning and Leaf graded out around the same. Some even labeled Leaf the "prospect with the lower floor" because of his "Giant arm".....this year it's the exact same thing.
The big arm of Russell makes him a 'better fit' for the Raiders....however if he doesn't go #1....I can see him slipping to 6 or so. He's not that great of a QB...prospect ? sure..but his mechanics aren't consistent, he only has 29 career
starts and has alot longer to go than Quinn does.
If the Raiders make JR the top pick, I promise you they don't win 3 games next year.


And when did I say anything about Quinn hoisting the Lombardi his first year ????????

Jesus, get a clue...here, how about this.
You don't pass on getting a ferrari because you managed to overpay for a
top of the line Honda Civic the year before.

No metaphor, not even a cheesy one, is going to allow Brady Quinn to be a good quarterback in the NFL, sorry.

Everyone in the draft is a prospect, including BQ, but the difference with JR is he has been growing the last few years and showing his amazing raw ability has the chance for him to grow. Brady has hit his peek the last two years, not having great improvements in results (nice numbers sure, but nothing to show for it). Plus Leinart and Bush left USC and he still couldn't beat them, even with all of his career starts compared to Booty.

Drafting even Mason Crosby should not stop the Raiders from winning three games with their D. They play the Lions, Cleveland, Miami, Houston and us each once. Along with Kansas City twice who should be showing their Herman Edwards success any time soon now. 3 games should not be a big obstacle.

As for Quinn and the Lombardi:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Severe Punishment View Post
Holy Christ, U2 have serious issues.

All I know is when you have a chance to take a Peyton Manning you do it.
You don't worry about what people will think...especially when you're hoisting the Lombardi at the end of the season.
"at the end of the season" not a season. I though BQ was so ready and amazing he should take a team through the playoffs? If not, he is just another project for the future like the rest of them.
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:33 PM    (permalink
Severe Punishment
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You're a baised moron whose going to stop at nothing to try and beat down a guy that's going to go top 10 by saying he's "never going to be good" with nothing to base this on but hatred.
Good job.


I don't need a metaphore to tell you a div 1-AA Qb isn't taking this team anywhere this year, next year or 10 years from now. The current
crop of QB's this team has is sh!t.
Sorry, but someone had to break this news to you.
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Old 04-25-2007, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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You're a baised moron whose going to stop at nothing to try and beat down a guy that's going to go top 10 by saying he's "never going to be good" with nothing to base this on but hatred.
Good job.


I don't need a metaphore to tell you a div 1-AA Qb isn't taking this team anywhere this year, next year or 10 years from now. The current
crop of QB's this team has is sh!t.
Sorry, but someone had to break this news to you.
LOL. Don't you love the irony? How does this guy not have a string of negative red bars. I remember now why I stopped contributing to this site a couple years ago.. It was people like you and the hostility. You sign on just to bust people's chops don't you?

Like it makes you some how more superior in your knowledge. I can understand though.. I was like at at 17 on the forums too.

You should reread your first sentence here, and then read your last paragraph.

You really gave Tarvaris a lot of time to make that assessment, didn't you. Shows your real level of football knowledge. (Coming from a guy who neg reps me every other post I make, calling me a football novice. L-O-L.)
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Old 04-25-2007, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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Ummmm....you must be to young to remember the Peyton Manning / Ryan Leaf controversy. Manning was the clear cut #1...but the split on draft day was 50/50.
Experts can only grade prospects....both Manning and Leaf graded out around the same. Some even labeled Leaf the "prospect with the lower floor" because of his "Giant arm".....this year it's the exact same thing.
The big arm of Russell makes him a 'better fit' for the Raiders....however if he doesn't go #1....I can see him slipping to 6 or so. He's not that great of a QB...prospect ? sure..but his mechanics aren't consistent, he only has 29 career
starts and has alot longer to go than Quinn does.
If the Raiders make JR the top pick, I promise you they don't win 3 games next year.


And when did I say anything about Quinn hoisting the Lombardi his first year ????????

Jesus, get a clue...here, how about this.
You don't pass on getting a ferrari because you managed to overpay for a
top of the line Honda Civic the year before.
Just out of curiousity Sev, what was your opinion on Warren Moon, Daunte and Randall Cunningham?
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Old 04-25-2007, 11:21 AM    (permalink
Severe Punishment
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Moon was a Wife beater drunk, who I never considered a "real" Vikings QB. He'll always be a Houston Oiler to me ...same goes for any player who uses the VIkings to "prove to himself" that "he can still play" when the game past them over years prior (Archie Manning, Jeff George, ect ect)


Daunte is perhaps the most over rated QB in Vikings history.
He benefited more than anyone in the history of the franchise by having Randy Moss in his prime and Cris Carter. When those 2 left...he had 1 fantastic season , dumping down to Wiggins and Kliensauser. He was exposed when Randy left and is now a useless drone ...glad he's not here sucking up 5 Million a season against the cap.,
He's going to go down as much for his fumbling (I believe he's 2nd all time) as much as his meaningless single season team passing record.

Randall was perhaps my favorite player of all time....with the EAGLES.
It was nice to see him and Randy in 1998...especially that Monday night game against the Packers. He'd (by then) turned into a hellua passer.
While with the Eagles he was Mike Vick of the late 80's. Was extremely fun to watch, never got the Eagles to the Bowl (ala Vick) ...but
he was pretty amazing.
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Old 04-25-2007, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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LOL. Don't you love the irony? How does this guy not have a string of negative red bars. I remember now why I stopped contributing to this site a couple years ago.. It was people like you and the hostility. You sign on just to bust people's chops don't you?

Like it makes you some how more superior in your knowledge. I can understand though.. I was like at at 17 on the forums too.

You should reread your first sentence here, and then read your last paragraph.

You really gave Tarvaris a lot of time to make that assessment, didn't you. Shows your real level of football knowledge. (Coming from a guy who neg reps me every other post I make, calling me a football novice. L-O-L.)
Seriously, you say "I remember why I stop contributing ...blah blah blah"
who cares ? Do you actually think for 1 second that anyone benefits from your "expertice" ???? Get over yourself. Go grab a mirror and fall in love.
Don't like it here ? wonderful, horrible...no one cares.
And FYI I don't need 4 seasons to know that an undersized QB with limited skills is going to turn my team into a 3 win squad for however long he's under the helm. He looked like crap for his stint last year, he got beat out in college by a "QB" soooooo good that he's now a WR and he managed to inflate his ego by beating up on Division 1-AA talent ...yawn...wake me when this horrible experiment is over, Childress is finally let go and this team at least shows a little hope for the future.
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Old 04-25-2007, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Seriously, you say "I remember why I stop contributing ...blah blah blah"
who cares ? Do you actually think for 1 second that anyone benefits from your "expertice" ???? Get over yourself. Go grab a mirror and fall in love.
Don't like it here ? wonderful, horrible...no one cares.
And FYI I don't need 4 seasons to know that an undersized QB with limited skills is going to turn my team into a 3 win squad for however long he's under the helm. He looked like crap for his stint last year, he got beat out in college by a "QB" soooooo good that he's now a WR and he managed to inflate his ego by beating up on Division 1-AA talent ...yawn...wake me when this horrible experiment is over, Childress is finally let go and this team at least shows a little hope for the future.
So 6'2, 232 is undersized, but 6'3, 232 is the next amazing face of the NFL. Looks like I am not the biased one.
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Old 04-27-2007, 12:36 PM    (permalink
Severe Punishment
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http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1107218
6'1 "officially" which is MORE LIKELY 6'0 3/4"
He's short. No Drew Brees and lacks not only a pedigre' but competency as well. All anyone can say from him as FACT is that Matt Jones beat him out for QB ...Matt Jones is not even remotely close to being an NFL caliber QB. jackson pouted, changed schools instead of doing the sensible thing and waiting it out or switching positions. And beat up a bunch of school yard teams masqurading as college programs.

He sux, and again...I don't need 3 years of watching him screw the team up to figure it out.
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Old 04-28-2007, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Well eat it buddy. T-Jack is our boy now, and looks like we aren't the only ones who don't want Brady. Maybe you and Mel Kiper Jr. can start a team and draft him.
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Old 04-28-2007, 01:11 PM    (permalink
Severe Punishment
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Jackson will never ever ever be "my boy" and I promise you ...passing on Quinn will turn out to be the "icing" on this sh!t cake Childress has been making for years. I like Peterson and wish him the best...but he's more likely to dislocate his arm sneezing as he is to sustain the rigors of a 16 game season.

"don't want brady" ??? Do you think there's a reason these top 10 teams CONTINUE to draft top 10 year in and year out ??? hahahaha.

The last laugh will be on these top teams when Quinn leads some team to the title.
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Old 04-28-2007, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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You are right, sorry Cleveland is the team who understands talent. They will continue their domination of the NFL for sure now with Quinn at the helm.
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Old 04-28-2007, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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I would worry about THIS team which has had a top 10 pick 3 times in the last 7 years.

We're no where near the Patriots , Eagles, or Dallas as a team that's historically drafted well. Start worrying about your "boi" Jackson.
Because I promise you if he doesn't show SIGNIFICANT improvement
we'll be in the Brian Brohm running for next year.
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Old 04-28-2007, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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I'm not a Quinn lover but I gotta say that the Browns did themselves a favor by getting Thomas and then jumping up to get Quinn. If the Browns make a few good moves in the next couple years, Quinn is gonna look awesome. Braylon Edwards and K 2 are gonna love this guy.
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Old 04-29-2007, 02:15 AM    (permalink
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Seeing as how the Browns more than likely would've looked QB next year (top 10 most likely) so giving up a 1st rounder this year for a 1st round talent was neither a "reach" nor was it un-neccessary.
The Browns simply traded a 1st round top 10 pick next year for a 2nd one this year. The cost to do it ? a 2nd rounder. totally worth it in my opinion.
Plus he gets that extra year to develop a repoire with Edwards and Winslow. Brilliant move if you ask me, why "waste" that year with Frye and Anderson ??? it's like eating hot dogs when you could be eating steak.
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Old 04-29-2007, 02:42 AM    (permalink
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I have to agree that the browns not only did the right thing but Phil savage again proves why he is one of the premier GMS in the league, I was hoping a certain two self believed geniuses up in minnesota were going to do the exact same thing. Giving us hope for next year
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Old 04-29-2007, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
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Jackson will never ever ever be "my boy" and I promise you ...passing on Quinn will turn out to be the "icing" on this sh!t cake Childress has been making for years.
This is his 2nd year ******
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