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Old 01-19-2014, 01:38 AM    (permalink
TitanHope
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Originally Posted by Nalej View Post
Rape is about consent. You can not give consent when under the influence.
As scary as that sounds... it's the truth. Regardless, I doubt that what's happening here.
Like Sportsfan said, too much smoke here... somethings up here. Sharper is getting his Rothlesburger on
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
You could argue it, but you'd be wrong. As Nalej said, unless their is clear (and constant) consent, it is and can be considered rape. Similarly, if you are intoxicated you cannot give consent.

It's shocking how many people do not understand this or adhere to it.
In the example, both parties are drunk. If a woman can't give consent if she's intoxicated, then how can an intoxicated man do so? I dunno what the fine points of this law are, since I'd rather avoid bar wrenches than learn nuthin', but I think this is what Papa CJ was getting at. If the law is setup to hold intoxicated men responsible for their actions, but then doesn't do so for women, then that's a bunch of biscuits.
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Damn Ke$ha is sexy.
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Old 01-19-2014, 01:49 AM    (permalink
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A woman getting drunk means giving consent?
Seriously, man, that is wrong on so many levels.
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Old 01-19-2014, 01:49 AM    (permalink
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Women can commit rape too. I'm not sure if this answers your concern, but it certainly is known to happen (particularly under the influence). Ultimately, it does not really matter. NEITHER party can given consent while under the influence. Meaning if a women says its rape and she was intoxicated then that's what it is. If the male was under the influence too, that makes no difference.
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Old 01-19-2014, 02:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
Women can commit rape too. I'm not sure if this answers your concern...
At this point, all I'm concerned with is how I avoid full on miss-on-mister rape. My parents did NOT have this discussion with me.
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Old 01-19-2014, 02:12 AM    (permalink
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At this point, all I'm concerned with is how I avoid full on miss-on-mister rape. My parents did NOT have this discussion with me.

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Old 01-19-2014, 02:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TitanHope View Post
At this point, all I'm concerned with is how I avoid full on miss-on-mister rape. My parents did NOT have this discussion with me.
Don't have sex with a girl who has had alcohol. It's really as simple as that. We spent almost an entire day on this in my training to teach freshman orientation classes because it's such a big issue in college, but the simple solution is to just avoid it. If a girl has been drinking, and she says yes, it literally means nothing and you are still accountable.

Despite common perception, rape is actually significantly UNDER reported. There is some weird idea that women often "cry wolf," or as Bert foolishly alluded to, do it for financial purposes; however, rape is generally under reported but last time I checked 1/5 women in college will be raped, and ultimately that statistic is significantly lower than what it should be because women are often too afraid to report it OR they are convinced it was not in fact rape. Likewise, "false" reports of rape I believe are at 3% last I heard? Which is EXCEPTIONALLY low and also about the norm for other crimes, such as burglary.

Basically, you just need to be smart. Any time you drink, or a girl drinks, you open yourself up to the potential for something to come back and hurt you. It goes against pretty much all commonly held popular culture of people hooking up when they're drunk, but it is the law (and a good law at that).
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Old 01-19-2014, 03:21 AM    (permalink
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What's with all this business about people who are not me being raped, Forenci?

Like, my neighbor is a woman! Oh God. I said hi to her on the elevator the other day.

DREW! DREW HELP ME I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:00 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CJSchneider View Post
I could argue that is not rape.
And I would agree with you. If two people are both wasted on alcohol and they bang, there is no rape, but that's not how a lot of people see it. I could go through and start blasting Forenci's argument and points, but I'm not gonna, because I'm pretty sure that it's political talk and it's banned here.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.

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Old 01-19-2014, 05:22 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TitanHope View Post
What's with all this business about people who are not me being raped, Forenci?

Like, my neighbor is a woman! Oh God. I said hi to her on the elevator the other day.

DREW! DREW HELP ME I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!
I imagine many would like to rape you and your glorious hair.

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And I would agree with you. If two people are both wasted on alcohol and they bang, there is no rape, but that's not how a lot of people see it. I could go through and start blasting Forenci's argument and points, but I'm not gonna, because I'm pretty sure that it's political talk and it's banned here.
Political? It's not political at all. At least, not in the terms you seem to be placing it in. Everything is political from a technical standpoint, but I am merely telling you how it is. Your opinion is irrelevant to what you personally do or do not consider rape.
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Old 01-19-2014, 07:36 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
last time I checked 1/5 women in college will be raped,
I'm not trying to make light of a serious subject but this is the reason I shake my head...

If a girl cannot give consent while intoxicated...

I'm willing to bet nearly every single college girl will have sex at least once while intoxicated during their college careers. So that ratio should be much higher if the standard is as established.
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Old 01-19-2014, 07:39 AM    (permalink
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Eh, I have mixed feelings. One time I was drinking with a female friend and I got way to drunk. We started to fool around, which I was 100% cool with, but then she mounted me without a condom. I didn't stop her because I was trashed out of my mind, but I remember being unhappy about it even as it was happening. The next morning I felt 100x worse about it. I certainly felt like I had been taken advantage of and a little bit violated.

Still, there's a difference between that and grabbing somebody in an alley and forcibly raping them. In her defense, she was also pretty drunk and I can't say that I wasn't a somewhat willing participant at the time. It wasn't the highlight of my life, but it didn't leave me traumatized either.

Both are bad situations, but we probably need two different terms for them. I was taken advantage of during a night of drinking, but I would never say that I was raped.

Of course, I'm a man and nobody cares about us anyway.
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Old 01-19-2014, 07:39 AM    (permalink
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Anytime a famous/rich person is accused of rape 99.9% of the time it's just a money grab.
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Old 01-19-2014, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
Don't have sex with a girl who has had alcohol. It's really as simple as that. We spent almost an entire day on this in my training to teach freshman orientation classes because it's such a big issue in college, but the simple solution is to just avoid it. If a girl has been drinking, and she says yes, it literally means nothing and you are still accountable.

Despite common perception, rape is actually significantly UNDER reported. There is some weird idea that women often "cry wolf," or as Bert foolishly alluded to, do it for financial purposes; however, rape is generally under reported but last time I checked 1/5 women in college will be raped, and ultimately that statistic is significantly lower than what it should be because women are often too afraid to report it OR they are convinced it was not in fact rape. Likewise, "false" reports of rape I believe are at 3% last I heard? Which is EXCEPTIONALLY low and also about the norm for other crimes, such as burglary.

Basically, you just need to be smart. Any time you drink, or a girl drinks, you open yourself up to the potential for something to come back and hurt you. It goes against pretty much all commonly held popular culture of people hooking up when they're drunk, but it is the law (and a good law at that).


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Anytime a famous/rich person is accused of rape 99.9% of the time it's just a money grab.
Uhh...no.
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Old 01-19-2014, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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Anytime a famous/rich person is accused of rape 99.9% of the time it's just a money grab.
Is this stat based on a study performed by the Coalition of Creepy Perverts?
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Anytime a famous/rich person is accused of rape 99.9% of the time it's just a money grab.
Its really unbelievable how many people just spout off ******** with exactly nothing to back it up.
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Anytime a famous/rich person is accused of rape 99.9% of the time it's just a money grab.
999 out of 1000 times, it's a false accusation, money grab?
Wow.

Who gave that verified statistic to you, God?
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Eh, I have mixed feelings. One time I was drinking with a female friend and I got way to drunk. We started to fool around, which I was 100% cool with, but then she mounted me without a condom. I didn't stop her because I was trashed out of my mind, but I remember being unhappy about it even as it was happening. The next morning I felt 100x worse about it. I certainly felt like I had been taken advantage of and a little bit violated.

Still, there's a difference between that and grabbing somebody in an alley and forcibly raping them. In her defense, she was also pretty drunk and I can't say that I wasn't a somewhat willing participant at the time. It wasn't the highlight of my life, but it didn't leave me traumatized either.

Both are bad situations, but we probably need two different terms for them. I was taken advantage of during a night of drinking, but I would never say that I was raped.

Of course, I'm a man and nobody cares about us anyway.
Thanks for sharing that life experience of yours with us.
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Why did I come back into this thread? WTF did this turn into? Blech.
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Old 01-19-2014, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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In the example, both parties are drunk. If a woman can't give consent if she's intoxicated, then how can an intoxicated man do so? I dunno what the fine points of this law are, since I'd rather avoid bar wrenches than learn nuthin', but I think this is what Papa CJ was getting at. If the law is setup to hold intoxicated men responsible for their actions, but then doesn't do so for women, then that's a bunch of biscuits.
Exactly. In the same respect, I am all for young men having to be mandated to take parenting classes if it is known they are about to be the father of a child, similar to how some school districts provide this service to females.
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Old 01-19-2014, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Eh, I have mixed feelings. One time I was drinking with a female friend and I got way to drunk. We started to fool around, which I was 100% cool with, but then she mounted me without a condom. I didn't stop her because I was trashed out of my mind, but I remember being unhappy about it even as it was happening. The next morning I felt 100x worse about it. I certainly felt like I had been taken advantage of and a little bit violated.
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I didn't know girls could wear those.
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Damn Ke$ha is sexy.
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Old 01-19-2014, 02:00 PM    (permalink
Brodeur
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Originally Posted by WCH View Post
Eh, I have mixed feelings. One time I was drinking with a female friend and I got way to drunk. We started to fool around, which I was 100% cool with, but then she mounted me without a condom. I didn't stop her because I was trashed out of my mind, but I remember being unhappy about it even as it was happening. The next morning I felt 100x worse about it. I certainly felt like I had been taken advantage of and a little bit violated.

Still, there's a difference between that and grabbing somebody in an alley and forcibly raping them. In her defense, she was also pretty drunk and I can't say that I wasn't a somewhat willing participant at the time. It wasn't the highlight of my life, but it didn't leave me traumatized either.

Both are bad situations, but we probably need two different terms for them. I was taken advantage of during a night of drinking, but I would never say that I was raped.

Of course, I'm a man and nobody cares about us anyway.
WCH, that's rape. You should report that, because it's absolutely sexual assault.

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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
999 out of 1000 times, it's a false accusation, money grab?
Wow.

Who gave that verified statistic to you, God?
When JMike makes sense, there's something wrong.
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Old 01-19-2014, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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What's with all this business about people who are not me being raped, Forenci?

Like, my neighbor is a woman! Oh God. I said hi to her on the elevator the other day.

DREW! DREW HELP ME I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!
Firstly, I've got your back at all times. If you were ever creepin' the pants off the biscuits of a woman, I'll karate chop you in the back of your glorious head.

Secondly, we know that this isn't really even necessary. No woman can resist dat eye/hair combo. No woman.
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Old 01-19-2014, 03:12 PM    (permalink
The Alex
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Political? It's not political at all. At least, not in the terms you seem to be placing it in. Everything is political from a technical standpoint, but I am merely telling you how it is. Your opinion is irrelevant to what you personally do or do not consider rape.
My opinion is irrelevant to the reality of the law, but that doesn't mean the law can't be discussed and questioned. Why is it that if a woman gets drunk and get behind the wheel of a car, she's responsible if anything happens, but if the same woman gets drunk and gets in bed, she's not responsible if anything happens? It doesn't make any sense. If the law suggests she is coherent enough to make a decision to drive and endanger herself and others why is she not coherent enough to make a decision to bang and endanger herself and others? Further more, if two drunk people hook up, why is it the man's responsibility to stop it from going any further? Why is he the rapist and the woman a victim; even if she's the one who engaged it? It suggests that women are incapable of responsibility with their own bodies, essentially treating them as children. If anything, the law is sexist.

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Originally Posted by WCH View Post
Eh, I have mixed feelings. One time I was drinking with a female friend and I got way to drunk. We started to fool around, which I was 100% cool with, but then she mounted me without a condom. I didn't stop her because I was trashed out of my mind, but I remember being unhappy about it even as it was happening. The next morning I felt 100x worse about it. I certainly felt like I had been taken advantage of and a little bit violated.

Still, there's a difference between that and grabbing somebody in an alley and forcibly raping them. In her defense, she was also pretty drunk and I can't say that I wasn't a somewhat willing participant at the time. It wasn't the highlight of my life, but it didn't leave me traumatized either.

Both are bad situations, but we probably need two different terms for them. I was taken advantage of during a night of drinking, but I would never say that I was raped.

Of course, I'm a man and nobody cares about us anyway.
This. I think we've all had a similar situation where we've hooked up with someone while drunk and regretted it later. This is basically what I'm trying to say. Sure, the law may see both as the same, but the law isn't always objectively right. I don't know which Sharper is being accused of, but if it's the later, I'd like some more details to come out before we all throw him to the wolves.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 01-19-2014, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by The Alex View Post
My opinion is irrelevant to the reality of the law, but that doesn't mean the law can't be discussed and questioned. Why is it that if a woman gets drunk and get behind the wheel of a car, she's responsible if anything happens, but if the same woman gets drunk and gets in bed, she's not responsible if anything happens? It doesn't make any sense. If the law suggests she is coherent enough to make a decision to drive and endanger herself and others why is she not coherent enough to make a decision to bang and endanger herself and others? Further more, if two drunk people hook up, why is it the man's responsibility to stop it from going any further? Why is he the rapist and the woman a victim; even if she's the one who engaged it? It suggests that women are incapable of responsibility with their own bodies, essentially treating them as children. If anything, the law is sexist.



This. I think we've all had a similar situation where we've hooked up with someone while drunk and regretted it later. This is basically what I'm trying to say. Sure, the law may see both as the same, but the law isn't always objectively right. I don't know which Sharper is being accused of, but if it's the later, I'd like some more details to come out before we all throw him to the wolves.

You're missing the entire point. One, the comparison for drinking/driving and sex is absolutely ridiculous. The reason men and women are held accountable for their actions when driving drunk is that they aren't capable of making the correct decisions, and have impaired themselves, endangering others on the road. Second, there's a huge difference between being able to consent to an action, and actually performing an action (driving). It's ludicrous, and you know it is.

The reason people generally get in trouble for stuff like this is because often times the word "No" or something to that effect is said either before the action takes place, or while it happens. The second there is a rejection on the part of one party, either by saying No or pushing them away, continuing further is sexual assault. It's as simple as that.
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Old 01-19-2014, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
You're missing the entire point. One, the comparison for drinking/driving and sex is absolutely ridiculous. The reason men and women are held accountable for their actions when driving drunk is that they aren't capable of making the correct decisions, and have impaired themselves, endangering others on the road. Second, there's a huge difference between being able to consent to an action, and actually performing an action (driving). It's ludicrous, and you know it is.
So if a drunk girl grabs my dick, leads me to the bedroom, and bangs me, I'm the rapist that took advantage of her? ********.

Quote:
The reason people generally get in trouble for stuff like this is because often times the word "No" or something to that effect is said either before the action takes place, or while it happens. The second there is a rejection on the part of one party, either by saying No or pushing them away, continuing further is sexual assault. It's as simple as that.
Sure, if someone says No, then it's rape. I'm talking about the early morning regret about the sex last night being labeled as rape.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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