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Old 03-27-2014, 02:59 PM    (permalink
Monomach
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No one "answers all of the questions" at a pro day. The tape supersedes that...and I don't see an NFL QB on that tape. Put me on the record as saying he's not starting for anyone in his fourth season.

Q: Why did Manziel do his drills in pads and helmet?
A: To hide his 14-year-old's physique.

The Browns and Bears were the only two teams not at A&M. Lots of people there for Mike Evans, obviously.

Last edited by Monomach : 03-27-2014 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 03-27-2014, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fredder View Post
Who said the only things good about Manziel are his intangibles? He showed an NFL arm, he's the best deep ball passer in the draft(and would be in most drafts), and he's fantastic at buying time and making plays outside the pocket.
A Pro Day workout is literally worthless in proving that though (which is my take on ALL QB Pro Days). I care more about what I see in game film, which is a QB with a marginal arm who time and time and time and time again got away with his receivers bailing him out after he made stupid decisions. When he did stay in the pocket he had a history of poor decision making.

It has also been nearly 40 years since a QB got away with what he did in college, and the level of athlete on defense has improved a near infinite amount since then (to the point I believe the best athletes now play defense, a major cultural change in the sport the past 20 years).
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Old 03-27-2014, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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A Pro Day workout is literally worthless in proving that though (which is my take on ALL QB Pro Days). I care more about what I see in game film, which is a QB with a marginal arm who time and time and time and time again got away with his receivers bailing him out after he made stupid decisions. When he did stay in the pocket he had a history of poor decision making.

It has also been nearly 40 years since a QB got away with what he did in college, and the level of athlete on defense has improved a near infinite amount since then (to the point I believe the best athletes now play defense, a major cultural change in the sport the past 20 years).
Acting like a Pro Day is completely meaningless is about as dumb as acting like it's a significant part of the process. He showed that when his mechanics are there, which wasn't often on tape, he can drive the ball down the field with velocity and accuracy. To me his "marginal arm" is more a mechanics problem than limited arm strength. You could tell that today from watching his Pro Day.

I do agree about him being bailed out by his receivers at times but he also threw a lot of very good deep passes that people tend to overlook because he was throwing to Mike Evans.

Nobody is arguing that he's going to continue to play like he did in college. I'm not sure why people still insist on bringing this up. There have been plenty of QBs who played in systems that don't resemble an NFL offense. It's just a bigger adjustment for Manziel.
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Old 03-27-2014, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
No one "answers all of the questions" at a pro day. The tape supersedes that...and I don't see an NFL QB on that tape. Put me on the record as saying he's not starting for anyone in his fourth season.

Q: Why did Manziel do his drills in pads and helmet?
A: To hide his 14-year-old's physique.

The Browns and Bears were the only two teams not at A&M. Lots of people there for Mike Evans, obviously.
The questions I was referring to were those that can be answered at a workout where you're trying to judge throwing out of the pocket, on the run and what kind of touch and velocity the guy shows.

Didn't think our comments had to be so literal in here.
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Old 03-27-2014, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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Acting like a Pro Day is completely meaningless is about as dumb as acting like it's a significant part of the process. He showed that when his mechanics are there, which wasn't often on tape, he can drive the ball down the field with velocity and accuracy. To me his "marginal arm" is more a mechanics problem than limited arm strength. You could tell that today from watching his Pro Day.
When you are throwing in a sterile environment with no pressure, you should be able to show off great mechanics (which to me was the biggest of all the red flags with Tebow, who I also graded a 3rd Round pick who needed a Steve Young like situation). In games when under fire he hasn't shown the ability to do that, which weighs much more heavily to me than a Pro Day workout.
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Old 03-27-2014, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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Comparinf Tebow and manziel as people is just plain dumb and stupid and even as a player. It's to bad Tebow wasn't in the league to play against Manziel. It would be sec magic all game long.
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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Other than Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Peyton, most NFL QBs don't throw with great mechanics for 4 quarters.
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MassNole View Post
When you are throwing in a sterile environment with no pressure, you should be able to show off great mechanics (which to me was the biggest of all the red flags with Tebow, who I also graded a 3rd Round pick who needed a Steve Young like situation). In games when under fire he hasn't shown the ability to do that, which weighs much more heavily to me than a Pro Day workout.
If you think mechanics was Tebow main problem, your QB analysis is just plain dumb. The guy had a below average pro arm and just wasn't very accurate as a passer, all the mechanics in the world cannot solve that.

We all know you hate Manziel, but your analysis of his game is worthless IMO, just like your analysis about Tebow is ridiculous. You need to reexamine how you look at the post season draft process, because right now, your so far off track, your analysis just isn't worth the paper it is printed on?????????????

There are very legitimate concerns about Manziel, his height, the fact that if he runs the ball too much at the next level, his health will be a serious issue, a few simple mechanical issues and whether or not he bails out too early on passing downs. However none of those issues weren't a concern for Kaep, RG111, Wilson and many other pro QB's, they all went on to have productive careers and so will Manzie if he can stay healthy. I'm a Manziel lover but I recognize the concerns and have no problem discussing them in a factual manner.

We all have strong opinion on prospects, but we try to back up our arguments with facts not broad generalizations and we don't ridicule the process to try to prove a point. The NFL teams and the league spend millions on scouting prospects, I think they compared to you, know exactly what they are doing and have a much better idea of what is important and what isn't.
Nobody is saying a Pro Day is the be all and end all of scouting, but it certainly plays its part in the scouting process, to sluff it off as worthless just makes your opinion worthless.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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If you think mechanics was Tebow main problem, your QB analysis is just plain dumb. The guy had a below average pro arm and just wasn't very accurate as a passer, all the mechanics in the world cannot solve that.

We all know you hate Manziel, but your analysis of his game is worthless IMO, just like your analysis about Tebow is ridiculous. You need to reexamine how you look at the post season draft process, because right now, your so far off track, your analysis just isn't worth the paper it is printed on?????????????
So let me understand, bad mechanics don't lead to inaccurate passing? Simple revisions to one's mechanics can drastically improve accuracy. Tebow NEVER had proper coaching until he reached the NFL, and then being rushed onto the field only made that worse. But as for his arm, if Tebow's arm was below average, I really don't know what you think of Manziel's, because it is not as good as Tebow's raw arm strength.

Tebow's main problems stemmed from having no experience in a pro style offense coming from a version of the Spread that made his reads for him. Manziel comes from an offense that likewise makes his reads for him. Neither has any experience actually being asked to make adjustments or read a defense. That isn't a skill you suddenly learn in the NFL.

(Cam Newton's college offense asked him to make a lot more quick reads than either Tebow or Manziel, although not ideal still not as bad as theirs)

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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
There are very legitimate concerns about Manziel, his height, the fact that if he runs the ball too much at the next level, his health will be a serious issue, a few simple mechanical issues and whether or not he bails out too early on passing downs. However none of those issues weren't a concern for Kaep, RG111, Wilson and many other pro QB's, they all went on to have productive careers and so will Manzie if he can stay healthy. I'm a Manziel lover but I recognize the concerns and have no problem discussing them in a factual manner.
Kaep was a Second Round pick and Wilson was a Third Round pick. Both went to teams with excellent situations for development with veteran QBs expected to start their rookie years (remember Wilson beat out Matt Flynn who was the presumed starter after getting paid as a FA. But in terms of comparing Manziel to RG3, he is nowhere near the athlete RG3 was, but the same elements to his game will lead to him being constantly injured like RG3. I mean honestly I don't know how one can call RG3 a successful pick when his team's lack of success lead to the HC getting fired after just 2 seasons. He was able to come in and do well because of athleticism, but once teams made the quick adjustment to that, the glaring problems created by the Air Raid training reared their head and lead to a situation that can set the franchise back another 5 years.

So if you want to compare Manziel's issues to QBs who weren't First Round picks, you're only making my point he's not a First Round talent.


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We all have strong opinion on prospects, but we try to back up our arguments with facts not broad generalizations and we don't ridicule the process to try to prove a point. The NFL teams and the league spend millions on scouting prospects, I think they compared to you, know exactly what they are doing and have a much better idea of what is important and what isn't.
Nobody is saying a Pro Day is the be all and end all of scouting, but it certainly plays its part in the scouting process, to sluff it off as worthless just makes your opinion worthless.
Fact: Air Raid QBs don't succeed in the NFL.
Fact: Manziel admitted he never received much coaching in college (another red flag Manziel apologists gloss over or ignore)
Fact: Manziel played behind one of the best OL's in CFB at A&M and wasn't able to do much (if anything) as a pocket passer. If he goes where you want him to, that is a luxury he definitely won't have in the NFL.

Also if the process the NFL spends millions on is so good then how do they make mistakes on QBs sp often? Answer, the process is flawed (coupled with an abundance of arrogance by NFL coaches as to how well they can coach someone up to gloss over their flaws).

I mean if we want to puff up prospects for stellar pro days, the by all means Tahj Boyd should be back in the First Round discussion after his sensation pro day. Wait though, he is a short QB with mechanical issues who has no experience in a pro style offense? If anything it is apparent from game film that Boyd's pocket awareness is much better than Manziel. People are confusing being elusive and taking off at the first sign of trouble as some superior sixth sense when game analysis shows a lot of times he missed open WRs for big plays while subjecting himself to possible injury.

People make big deals about his Alabama games as a sign he steps up versus elite defenses (though how many of those throws were god awful?). But ignore the other games against elite SEC defenses where he struggled and his team went 0-4 (LSU 2x, UF, Mizzou).

If you want to contend he is like Kaep or Wilson fine, but doing so is admitting he's not a first round talent.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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If you want to contend he is like Kaep or Wilson fine, but doing so is admitting he's not a first round talent.
I didn't agree with some of your whole post but at least you made some sort of an argument. This last sentence though is absolutely non-sensical

First of all, not all drafts are the same. A guy picked in the 2nd round could absolutely be a first rounder in a different draft. Likewise a first rounder in one draft may be a mid to late 2nd rounder in another.

Secondly, Wilson was absolutely a first round talent. Kaep was raw but had the tools to be a first rounder. Wilson was taken in the 3rd round because a lot of teams stuck by a tried and tested method of needing a QB who was over 6 foot tall.

Brett Favre is a sure fire hall of famer - in hindsight is he not a first round talent?
Tom Brady, Drew Brees etc

Just because a guy isn't picked in the first round does not mean he does not have "first round talent".

It is because of guys like Geno Atkins that guys like Aaron Donald are being talked up as high first rounders. The talent and production is there but 4 or 5 years ago he would have been pigeon-holed as being too small.

It's because of guys like Randall Cobb, Percy Harvin etc that Tavon Austin was taken in the top 10 last year.

The NFL is an ever changing place and just because Manziel doesn't fit the age old prototypical mold of 6'5 230lbs doesn't mean he can't succeed or shouldn't be a first rounder.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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Is ti true his Proday was a little sideshow-ish?


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Ultimate Texans' Brian T. Smith notes that Minnesota Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer was unimpressed with Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel's "sideshow" of a Pro Day.

"The huddles and the different things and the music. The sideshow stuff," Zimmer said. "It was a sideshow." One thing we have learned from Manziel,is that he does things in his own way, whether it's throwing in pads and a helmet or having Nike marketing the very Pro Day outfit he wore that day. It comes with the territory when you plan to draft Johnny Manziel. The Vikings own the No. 8 pick in the draft, and if they're planning on drafting Manziel, they may have to move up for chance at landing him. Manziel and his "sideshow" of a Pro Day may have slightly raised his stock.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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Is ti true his Proday was a little sideshow-ish?
You can catch the replay on ESPN3. Also hard to know what else coaches and scouts were exposed to that we wouldn't have seen on the feed. The music was incredibly annoying.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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So let me understand, bad mechanics don't lead to inaccurate passing? Simple revisions to one's mechanics can drastically improve accuracy. Tebow NEVER had proper coaching until he reached the NFL, and then being rushed onto the field only made that worse. But as for his arm, if Tebow's arm was below average, I really don't know what you think of Manziel's, because it is not as good as Tebow's raw arm strength.

Tebow's main problems stemmed from having no experience in a pro style offense coming from a version of the Spread that made his reads for him. Manziel comes from an offense that likewise makes his reads for him. Neither has any experience actually being asked to make adjustments or read a defense. That isn't a skill you suddenly learn in the NFL.

(Cam Newton's college offense asked him to make a lot more quick reads than either Tebow or Manziel, although not ideal still not as bad as theirs)



Kaep was a Second Round pick and Wilson was a Third Round pick. Both went to teams with excellent situations for development with veteran QBs expected to start their rookie years (remember Wilson beat out Matt Flynn who was the presumed starter after getting paid as a FA. But in terms of comparing Manziel to RG3, he is nowhere near the athlete RG3 was, but the same elements to his game will lead to him being constantly injured like RG3. I mean honestly I don't know how one can call RG3 a successful pick when his team's lack of success lead to the HC getting fired after just 2 seasons. He was able to come in and do well because of athleticism, but once teams made the quick adjustment to that, the glaring problems created by the Air Raid training reared their head and lead to a situation that can set the franchise back another 5 years.

So if you want to compare Manziel's issues to QBs who weren't First Round picks, you're only making my point he's not a First Round talent.




Fact: Air Raid QBs don't succeed in the NFL.
Fact: Manziel admitted he never received much coaching in college (another red flag Manziel apologists gloss over or ignore)
Fact: Manziel played behind one of the best OL's in CFB at A&M and wasn't able to do much (if anything) as a pocket passer. If he goes where you want him to, that is a luxury he definitely won't have in the NFL.

Also if the process the NFL spends millions on is so good then how do they make mistakes on QBs sp often? Answer, the process is flawed (coupled with an abundance of arrogance by NFL coaches as to how well they can coach someone up to gloss over their flaws).

I mean if we want to puff up prospects for stellar pro days, the by all means Tahj Boyd should be back in the First Round discussion after his sensation pro day. Wait though, he is a short QB with mechanical issues who has no experience in a pro style offense? If anything it is apparent from game film that Boyd's pocket awareness is much better than Manziel. People are confusing being elusive and taking off at the first sign of trouble as some superior sixth sense when game analysis shows a lot of times he missed open WRs for big plays while subjecting himself to possible injury.

People make big deals about his Alabama games as a sign he steps up versus elite defenses (though how many of those throws were god awful?). But ignore the other games against elite SEC defenses where he struggled and his team went 0-4 (LSU 2x, UF, Mizzou).

If you want to contend he is like Kaep or Wilson fine, but doing so is admitting he's not a first round talent.
I'll ignore the hypocrisy of claiming that NFL teams make mistakes with their evaluations of QBs and then claiming that Kaep and Wilson weren't first round talents because they were drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

I'm not sure why you insist on looking at Pro Days as one extreme or the other. You say that we should be claiming that Tajh Boyd is a 1st rounder because he had a good Pro Day but nobody has ever said that a Pro Day is a big part of QB evaluations. If a guy looks like a 7th rounder on tape and then has a good Pro Day he doesn't become a 1st rounder. I've never said that tape doesn't make up the vast majority of the evaluation process. Manziel was widely considered a 1st round talent before his Pro Day so really he just solidified that. The only thing that I really took from Manziel's Pro Day is that with proper mechanics he has more than enough arm strength to survive in the NFL. Now it's just a matter of getting him to be more consistent with his mechanics.

Also, saying that Manziel's mechanical problems are anywhere near Tebow's is just ridiculous. Tebow had to completely rework his entire release whereas Manziel just needs to use his lower half more consistently. Manziel is a far superior natural passer than Tebow ever was.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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Also if the process the NFL spends millions on is so good then how do they make mistakes on QBs sp often? Answer, the process is flawed (coupled with an abundance of arrogance by NFL coaches as to how well they can coach someone up to gloss over their flaws).
Great point - I'm a Jags fan - looking at Gabbert's Missouri tape I was not a fan at all. Had the raw tools, but a bust that cost the GM his job (and perhaps even JDR and Mularkey who couldn't get anything out of him). Now how much time and money did the Jags sink into making that pick? And not like that is the only bust - every year there are tons of them.

In general with the pro days point, I think they carry some weight - but in reality it might be the first or second time a GM and certainly coaches see a prospect in person. The drills do show things - but nothing beats tape. There's no question prospects who shine in the post season can get pushed too far up the board and there's no question mistakes are made every year where the tape just wasn't good enough. The most valuable aspect of a pro day is actually being able to speak to a prospect - find out just what kind of person they are and what their football knowledge is - not something many of us are able to do, yet a big part of the evaluation.

I would say there's a little more weight in the workout if you are wanting to see something that you can't on tape (e.g. college 4-3 DE - pro OLB prospect, you want to see how they move in space) or see how someone is moving that is coming back from injury. Mayock talks about seeing how the ball comes out of the hand with a QB - but I still think you can watch a QB on tape and have a pretty good idea. I mean this year you can see Carr and Mettenberger have plus arms while David Fales doesn't.

Manziel specifically - some say he's a tough evaluation - in reality he's an easy one. Whoever drafts him will have to live with some turnovers - especially early in his career. However, you'll also have some "no, no, no, YES!!!!" plays. He's reckless with his body at times and at his size that makes durability a major concern (more so than Bridgewater I think). Some of the stuff he tried in college will not work in the NFL - but you can still see him getting hot in the playoffs and being extremely dangerous. A little like Eli Manning has been with the Giants - Super Bowl winner or too many turnovers on the way to a losing season - Manziel will be a more mobile and not as durable version of Eli for me.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:06 AM    (permalink
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So let me understand, bad mechanics don't lead to inaccurate passing? Simple revisions to one's mechanics can drastically improve accuracy. Tebow NEVER had proper coaching until he reached the NFL, and then being rushed onto the field only made that worse. But as for his arm, if Tebow's arm was below average, I really don't know what you think of Manziel's, because it is not as good as Tebow's raw arm strength.

Tebow's main problems stemmed from having no experience in a pro style offense coming from a version of the Spread that made his reads for him. Manziel comes from an offense that likewise makes his reads for him. Neither has any experience actually being asked to make adjustments or read a defense. That isn't a skill you suddenly learn in the NFL.

(Cam Newton's college offense asked him to make a lot more quick reads than either Tebow or Manziel, although not ideal still not as bad as theirs)



Kaep was a Second Round pick and Wilson was a Third Round pick. Both went to teams with excellent situations for development with veteran QBs expected to start their rookie years (remember Wilson beat out Matt Flynn who was the presumed starter after getting paid as a FA. But in terms of comparing Manziel to RG3, he is nowhere near the athlete RG3 was, but the same elements to his game will lead to him being constantly injured like RG3. I mean honestly I don't know how one can call RG3 a successful pick when his team's lack of success lead to the HC getting fired after just 2 seasons. He was able to come in and do well because of athleticism, but once teams made the quick adjustment to that, the glaring problems created by the Air Raid training reared their head and lead to a situation that can set the franchise back another 5 years.

So if you want to compare Manziel's issues to QBs who weren't First Round picks, you're only making my point he's not a First Round talent.




Fact: Air Raid QBs don't succeed in the NFL.
Fact: Manziel admitted he never received much coaching in college (another red flag Manziel apologists gloss over or ignore)
Fact: Manziel played behind one of the best OL's in CFB at A&M and wasn't able to do much (if anything) as a pocket passer. If he goes where you want him to, that is a luxury he definitely won't have in the NFL.

Also if the process the NFL spends millions on is so good then how do they make mistakes on QBs sp often? Answer, the process is flawed (coupled with an abundance of arrogance by NFL coaches as to how well they can coach someone up to gloss over their flaws).

I mean if we want to puff up prospects for stellar pro days, the by all means Tahj Boyd should be back in the First Round discussion after his sensation pro day. Wait though, he is a short QB with mechanical issues who has no experience in a pro style offense? If anything it is apparent from game film that Boyd's pocket awareness is much better than Manziel. People are confusing being elusive and taking off at the first sign of trouble as some superior sixth sense when game analysis shows a lot of times he missed open WRs for big plays while subjecting himself to possible injury.

People make big deals about his Alabama games as a sign he steps up versus elite defenses (though how many of those throws were god awful?). But ignore the other games against elite SEC defenses where he struggled and his team went 0-4 (LSU 2x, UF, Mizzou).

If you want to contend he is like Kaep or Wilson fine, but doing so is admitting he's not a first round talent.
You do know that you come off as a troll, right?
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Tebow has a strong arm. I'll repeat, Tebow's arm strength is way better than average. The problem is his throwing motion makes his release incredibly slow.

Also the previous generation of spead QBs like David Klingler etc. didn't succeed in the NFL.

You can look around the league and see several spread QBs who've had wild success in the pros because they're finally being developed properly by QB coaches and HCs.

If you can't diagnose coverages, get through your progressions quickly and find the open guy before throwing an ACCURATE football, you'll never be successful in the NFL as a QB.

Tebow couldn't do any of those three tasks at a minimum consistency level in the NFL and it's really hard to teach all those skills at the NFL level.

The Skins weren't set back 5 years because of RG3's 2013 season.

His down season wasn't because defenses adapted to him, RG3 didn't have a change to improve his overall game in the offseason because nearly all his time was spent training to rehab his knee.

In hindsight most people agree Kaepernick and Russell Wilson should have been first round picks. I didn't even realize that was up for debate.

Manziel is a better QB than Tahj Boyd and 100 pro days won't change that fact.

Sometimes great players pass up the 'right' play for the exceptional one. It's why great players are unique because it's really difficult to quantify what it is they're doing on the football field.

Guys like Brady/Rodgers/Brees/Peyton all typically make the right play passing the football, but all four are attacking QBs who take calculated risks in every game for 60 minutes.
They make plays most QBs can't because they see the field differently.

In his own way IMO Manziel has a similar individualized approach to the game. The only question is whether or not Manziel's unique style of play is consistent enough to be reliable in the NFL.

If Manziel is as efficient in the pros as he was at A&M, this entire question is irrelevant.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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The whole 'accuracy can be fixed' idea is questionable. I recall Brian Billick in last years draft process saying they drafted Boller high because they thought they could fix his inaccurate tendencies, he then said you can't or it is very difficult.

I think improved mechanics has to lead to higher velocity and some degree of accuracy improvement but as someone mentioned can the QB maintain the mechanics all game and under pressure? Andy Dalton is a prime example, his velocity and his long ball accuracy has improved since year 1 but when his mechanics are slightly off, his passes go WAY off.

I doubt there is a set answer to the question but no doubt some team very high will pick Manziel for the intangibles and with the thought that he will improve in the other areas. His pro day, complete with grain of salt, just add more intrigue to this years QB class.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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The whole 'accuracy can be fixed' idea is questionable. I recall Brian Billick in last years draft process saying they drafted Boller high because they thought they could fix his inaccurate tendencies, he then said you can't or it is very difficult.

I think improved mechanics has to lead to higher velocity and some degree of accuracy improvement but as someone mentioned can the QB maintain the mechanics all game and under pressure? Andy Dalton is a prime example, his velocity and his long ball accuracy has improved since year 1 but when his mechanics are slightly off, his passes go WAY off.

I doubt there is a set answer to the question but no doubt some team very high will pick Manziel for the intangibles and with the thought that he will improve in the other areas. His pro day, complete with grain of salt, just add more intrigue to this years QB class.
The premice of your comment is that Manziel's accuracy is a problem. It clearly is not. Any doubts about his ability to make all the throws should have ended yesterday if they hadn't during the season.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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It's still pretty sad teams are willing to take a chances with Manziel media and side show circus crap .. While they are not willing to take the same chance with Tebow. At least Tebow is a better person.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Manziel has great ball placement, i dont think hes inaccurate at all...sloppy in the way cutler and stafford are sloppy, but not really inaccurate
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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All the focus was on Johnny Football but my boy had his Pro Day yesterday as well.

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McGill OT Kills It In Drills for NFL Scouts, Lines Up Four Visits
John Kryk - March 27th, 2014


- – -

The best thing about Laurent Duvernay-Tardif’s impressive pro day on Thursday?

He convinced himself of something he had just been hoping for.

“I think now I belong in the NFL,” the 23-year-old McGill University med student said in a telephone interview from Montreal, after exceeding most of his goals in an NFL scouting-combine style workout.

In front of talent evaluators from nine NFL and four CFL teams, Duvernay-Tardif killed it, as they say, in all three phases for an NFL-calibre offensive line draft prospect: power, agility and speed.

Measuring 6-foot-5 and weighing about a dozen pounds lighter than normal, at 298, Duvernay Tardif did the following indoors, all in rapid succession, as he was the only athlete auditioning:

* bench-pressed 34 reps of 225 pounds. Only six of 50 offensive linemen benched more at the NFL scouting combine last month in Indianapolis;

* twice had a vertical leap of 31.5 inches. Only two O-linemen at the combine leaped higher;

* was mad he ran the three-cone ‘L’ drill in 7.3 seconds, even though no O-lineman at the combine ran it in under 7.3;

* ran the 40-yard dash, depending on whose stop watch you gauged, in anywhere from 4.94 and 5.08 seconds. Only five OLs at the combine posted sub-5.0 official times in the 40;

* leaped 9-feet-6 in the broad jump. Only Michigan’s Taylor Lewan — a likely Top 15 overall pick — jumped farther at the combine (9-feet-9);

* Ran the short shuttle in 4.59 seconds. Only 10 OLs did it faster at the combine.



“I was super relaxed. It was just like another workout, and I was super happy at the end,” Duvernay-Tardif said. “Those are great numbers.”

So much so that they captured the interest of Gil Brandt, known as the “Godfather” of draft analysts, who wanted to know how each drill went.

“Yes, they’re good numbers,” Brandt said by phone.

Duvernay-Tardif proved he measures up athletically. His shortcomings, as he and football people well know, are his Canadian university football pedigree and his hampered development over the past three years, as a result of not having been able to practise more than once per week because of his demanding med-school studies.

Duvernay-Tardif said he spoke frankly afterward with reps from the New York Jets, Oakland Raiders, Kansas City Chiefs, Green Bay Packers, Philadelphia Eagles, Chicago Bears, San Francisco 49ers, Buffalo Bills and Arizona Cardinals.

“What they were saying is that I’m a good athlete and I move super well for my weight,” Duvernay-Tardif said. “The big question mark for them is just the level of competition I played against.

“But I wanted them to know I’m coachable and they can mould me into the player they want, whether it’s a tackle or guard or centre.”

CFL scouts from Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto and Calgary also attended. Duvernay-Tardif is the top-ranked Canadian prospect for May’s CFL draft.

“I think I had an impressive day, for sure,” he said. “There are still some steps, but I think I’m going in the right way.”

Among those next steps are taking official visits to NFL teams. And after having dinner with a Bills scout on Wednesday, Duvernay-Tardif has visits lined up in Miami, Arizona, Cleveland and Seattle.

More are sure to follow.

“Yeah, we’re going to send that pro-day tape to all 32 NFL teams,” he said.

“Teams are so honest with you. Up until now I never knew what teams were thinking about me. Now I know that from every measurable way, I belong."
That is an outstanding workout and pretty impressive showing from NFL teams for a Canadian prospect. I know at least one General Manager was in attendance as well, which is telling.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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All the focus was on Johnny Football but my boy had his Pro Day yesterday as well.



That is an outstanding workout and pretty impressive showing from NFL teams for a Canadian prospect. I know at least one General Manager was in attendance as well, which is telling.
I wonder what his NFL chances do to his CFL Draft position?
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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I wonder what his NFL chances do to his CFL Draft position?
He won't be the #1 overall pick, which would be the case if the NFL weren't in the equation.

I imagine some team will still take a flyer though just to secure his rights.

I actually asked "LDT" about NFL vs. CFL on the most recent podcast.
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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He won't be the #1 overall pick, which would be the case if the NFL weren't in the equation.

I imagine some team will still take a flyer though just to secure his rights.

I actually asked "LDT" about NFL vs. CFL on the most recent podcast.
Well I suppose the CFL team could offer a Rocket Ismail type of deal to keep him home....
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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I'm still thinking that someone named Tardif should be playing left wing for the Montreal Canadians. Looks like a steal somewhere after the top 50 or so picks.
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