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Old 03-05-2014, 12:12 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by MassNole View Post
Wait, Manziel is having his own pro day compared to the A&M one? Yeah this kid doesn't scream character concerns at every glance.
We can all tell you hate him as a prospect but sometimes you just get laughable.
There have been hundreds of successful pro QB's who used their own personal Pro Day, what in the world has that got to do with his character. It might just be an idea his agent wanted to try out.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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We can all tell you hate him as a prospect but sometimes you just get laughable.
There have been hundreds of successful pro QB's who used their own personal Pro Day, what in the world has that got to do with his character. It might just be an idea his agent wanted to try out.
It is the totality of the circumstances surrounding his character. The comments he made about the Texans regretting it if they don't draft him is honestly one of the worst things I've seen someone say BEFORE the draft. If you want a Randy Moss like chip on your shoulder AFTER the Draft, fine. Before, you are just reinforcing the notion you're an asshole.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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I look at the other 2 prospects who were timed and there is zero to suggest that Mack's times aren't legit, but as I said previously, I have no way of absolutely knowing if the pros consider them legit till I see how Mack gets ranked by say Mayock after his Pro Day. But, I see nothing to suggest they aren't legit. If a prospect takes a jump up or down after his Pro Day, I think it is a legit way of assuming he did either well or poorly.

Take a look at Mississippi's times, every guy put up a very fast 40, the likelihood of that happening suggests a very fast track to me. Sometimes without real facts, you have to use common sense and when I see that many superb 40's I get real suspicious and after 55 years of doing this hobby, I've found that I'm usually right..
Well I'll tell you the Jeff Scott time wasn't surprising, he ran track for Ole Miss and was one of the fastest players in the SEC last year.

Pierce Burton is a very good athlete for an offensive lineman, that time didn't surprise me too much.

I knew Charles Sawyer would do everything pretty well, I was expecting more of a 4.5 time but his mid 4.4 doesn't shock me.

Logan was better than expected, but nothing too crazy. All in all I'd say those times are pretty close to what I would've have guessed for each player.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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It is the totality of the circumstances surrounding his character. The comments he made about the Texans regretting it if they don't draft him is honestly one of the worst things I've seen someone say BEFORE the draft. If you want a Randy Moss like chip on your shoulder AFTER the Draft, fine. Before, you are just reinforcing the notion you're an asshole.
You know Peyton basically said the same thing to the Colts before his draft??
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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You know Peyton basically said the same thing to the Colts before his draft??
I'd love to see a link to that. In looking, I see plenty of articles where Ryan Leaf basically told the Colts to draft Manning because he didn't want to live in Indianapolis. I also remember Eli Manning being a ***** about playing for the Chargers and forcing the trade to NYG.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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You know Peyton basically said the same thing to the Colts before his draft??
I remember the quote. Your talking about a lot of money and it's not unusual to press teams to draft you. You'll often hear pros say they love to play against teams that traded them or dropped them in FA. It's often a huge chip on a player's ego to get back at that team.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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I'd love to see a link to that. In looking, I see plenty of articles where Ryan Leaf basically told the Colts to draft Manning because he didn't want to live in Indianapolis. I also remember Eli Manning being a ***** about playing for the Chargers and forcing the trade to NYG.
Google and I are tight.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6430211

Peyton: I remember talking to Mr. Irsay [Colts owner Jim] at the combine, and saying, "Tell me what you're going to do." And he said they'd tell me in March. They were making it so dramatic, not making up their mind [between he and QB Ryan Leaf of Washington State]. And finally I was in his office one day and I said, "I would like to play for you but if you don't pick me, I will kick your ass for the next 15 years."
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:47 PM    (permalink
MassNole
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Google and I are tight.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6430211

Peyton: I remember talking to Mr. Irsay [Colts owner Jim] at the combine, and saying, "Tell me what you're going to do." And he said they'd tell me in March. They were making it so dramatic, not making up their mind [between he and QB Ryan Leaf of Washington State]. And finally I was in his office one day and I said, "I would like to play for you but if you don't pick me, I will kick your ass for the next 15 years."
Sorry to me that is considerably different than publicly saying it would be the worst decision they ever made. One, he said it privately to the Colts, and this quote is now attributed to a story 13 years after the Draft. Not pre-draft made to the public. Apples to oranges.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Sorry to me that is considerably different than publicly saying it would be the worst decision they ever made. One, he said it privately to the Colts, and this quote is now attributed to a story 13 years after the Draft. Not pre-draft made to the public. Apples to oranges.
Unbelievable how you only hear and take what you want and if it doesn't fit into your argument, well according to you, it has no merit.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Unbelievable how you only hear and take what you want and if it doesn't fit into your argument, well according to you, it has no merit.
You don't see a vast difference in telling a GM something privately at the Combine and making it publicly to reporters?
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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You don't see a vast difference in telling a GM something privately at the Combine and making it publicly to reporters?
Um, no. Nobody does. If anything the former is worse lol
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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You don't see a vast difference in telling a GM something privately at the Combine and making it publicly to reporters?
This was pre-twitter before most sportsnews outlets had an internet presence.

If Peyton was a pro prospect in today's environment, his comment would've gone viral.

In fact telling a GM to his face is way worse than what Manziel said.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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You don't see a vast difference in telling a GM something privately at the Combine and making it publicly to reporters?
No, I don't see the difference, they both got their point across to a team potentially drafting them. both ways happen all the time in pro sports, nobody makes an issue out of it but you. Why, you see it as a character flaw is beyond me.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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No, I don't see the difference, they both got their point across to a team potentially drafting them. both ways happen all the time in pro sports, nobody makes an issue out of it but you. Why, you see it as a character flaw is beyond me.
Because you choose to literally ignore every other assholish thing the kid has done the past 3 years in college versus looking at the totality of the circumstances. He wasn't nearly thrown out of Texas A&M for no reason.

With Manning, that comment would have been one isolated incident. With Manziel it is part of a pattern of behavior that has existed since he got to Texas A&M and has been a family trait for 50 years. Should we ignore the fact he comes from a family who made money through disgusting criminal enterprise too? It seems with other players, their background become a concern, and very few come from families who run sophisticated criminal enterprises.

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Old 03-05-2014, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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This was pre-twitter before most sportsnews outlets had an internet presence.

If Peyton was a pro prospect in today's environment, his comment would've gone viral.

In fact telling a GM to his face is way worse than what Manziel said.
Really? How many quotes do we actually get from private team interviews in this day and age?
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Really? How many quotes do we actually get from private team interviews in this day and age?
Not quotes. But we get a helluva lot of unnamed sources telling us who interviewed well or not.
You don't think Peyton Manning telling Jim Irsay I'm gonna kick your team's ass for 15 years wouldn't have ended up on Twitter??

Look however you wan to slice it, what Peyton Manning said
to Jim Irsay, THE OWNER OF THE COLTS, is at least as arrogant as what Johnny Manziel said to no one in particular, just the Browns franchise in general.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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Not quotes. But we get a helluva lot of unnamed sources telling us who interviewed well or not.
You don't think Peyton Manning telling Jim Irsay I'm gonna kick your team's ass for 15 years wouldn't have ended up on Twitter??

Look however you wan to slice it, what Peyton Manning said
to Jim Irsay, THE OWNER OF THE COLTS, is at least as arrogant as what Johnny Manziel said to no one in particular, just the Browns franchise in general.
And we believe all unsourced quotes we see on Twitter before the Draft?
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Everything Manziel does somehow comes back to Peyton Manning... lol.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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Wisconsin pro day:

LB Chris Borland had a 35 inch vert but still ran in the 4.8s.

Who the hell is Badger safety Dezmond Southward?? 6'1/212#, ran a 4.38 and had a 42 inch vert.

Too bad I never heard of him.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Wisconsin pro day:

LB Chris Borland had a 35 inch vert but still ran in the 4.8s.

Who the hell is Badger safety Dezmond Southward?? 6'1/212#, ran a 4.38 and had a 42 inch vert.

Too bad I never heard of him.
I'm pretty sure he was a converted CB, could be wrong though.

Impressive measurables, will have to go back and check him out.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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Southward is a great athlete but a bad defender. He is a liability in coverage and struggles to play the ball in the air. He'll be pretty good on special teams, but won't contribute on defense right away. Certainly has all the tools though, so maybe he can be coached up.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Wisconsin pro day:

LB Chris Borland had a 35 inch vert but still ran in the 4.8s.

Who the hell is Badger safety Dezmond Southward?? 6'1/212#, ran a 4.38 and had a 42 inch vert.

Too bad I never heard of him.
Southward has been a starting safety at UW for a while now...he played a school record number of games. He has always been considered and athletic freak, but his play doesn't usually match his athleticism. He didn't play football until his senior year of HS and he is pretty raw. He worked out as a CB during the Senior Bowl week and was given positive feedback on that. He could be a guy who blooms playing football full-time...he'd be a great 5th-6th round pick based on potential and special teams. Lots of development to be had though. Southward isn't a out of nowhere guy though, Senior Bowl invite, Combine invite, honorable mention Big 10.

Should mention that Beau Allen NT,(combine snub) came in at 6'2.5" 329lbs 31"vert, 8'8" broad, 30bench reps, 1.75 10yd (didn't run 40 cause hammy was tender).
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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Southward is a great athlete but a bad defender. He is a liability in coverage and struggles to play the ball in the air. He'll be pretty good on special teams, but won't contribute on defense right away. Certainly has all the tools though, so maybe he can be coached up.
What do you think of Borland?
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Southward has been a starting safety at UW for a while now...he played a school record number of games. He has always been considered and athletic freak, but his play doesn't usually match his athleticism. He didn't play football until his senior year of HS and he is pretty raw. He worked out as a CB during the Senior Bowl week and was given positive feedback on that. He could be a guy who blooms playing football full-time...he'd be a great 5th-6th round pick based on potential and special teams. Lots of development to be had though. Southward isn't a out of nowhere guy though, Senior Bowl invite, Combine invite, honorable mention Big 10.

Should mention that Beau Allen NT,(combine snub) came in at 6'2.5" 329lbs 31"vert, 8'8" broad, 30bench reps, 1.75 10yd (didn't run 40 cause hammy was tender).
I thought I read somewhere that an NFL guy saw Southward as possibly a 3rd rounder.
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Last edited by Brown Leader : 03-05-2014 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Scout quoted by Bob McGinn thought Southward was possibly a 3rd rounder.
I watch every Badger game...that is too high based on his film. Remember when I said that he broke the school record for games played?....well he has 2 career interceptions. When you play center field with that type of athleticism in a conference with average overall QB play, those figures don't add up. The potential is obvious and maybe some team tries to turn him into a Seattle style corner...but 3rd round is a reach.
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