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Old 03-19-2014, 11:30 PM    (permalink
fredder
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Bridgewater didn't really under-throw guys, but he was off-target.

I didn't watch either pro day in full, but it's funny to me how one guy has a great pro day and misses 9(?) passes, and the other guy is off on 7(?) and it's a disaster.

Bridgewater is still the more accurate thrower, but Bortles is better prepared to handle the contact in the NFL.

I like both guys, and Manziel. IMO whoever gets selected 1st, 2nd or third is the right pick for the team that drafts them.

Teddy is more textbook, Bortles is in that Roethlisberger/Cutler mode and Manziel is in his own category, but all of them I think will find a way to get it done at the next level.

If I had to pick which one is going to be the better rookie QB, it would be Bridgewater right now, not knowing which team he's going to play for.

No brainer if TB goes to Cleveland or Minny, less so if it's Jax or Oakland.
You really needed to watch the pro days to understand. I watched them both in full and haven't been giving Bortles any near as much support as I give Bridgewater but he was clearly better.

Kurt Warner said it best when he said "it's not just about completions it's about showing off NFL throws". Bridgewater had a deep pass where his receiver literally had to come to a complete stop and turn to catch it. That counts as a completion but in an NFL game it's an interception.

Bortles showed better velocity on his throws and when he missed a throw it was mostly slight overthrows on deep passes and leading receivers a bit too much on out routes. His receivers didn't really help him either. Bridgewater threw high on quite a few underneath routes and his deep passes were nowhere near where they should have been.

The biggest thing for me was that Bortles showed a lot of improvement in areas (velocity, mechanics/footwork, and touch) whereas Bridgewater looked worse than I think I've ever seen him. In reality Bridgewater likely just had a bad day but Bortles really showed the QB that people think he could potentially become and it was impressive.
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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You really needed to watch the pro days to understand. I watched them both in full and haven't been giving Bortles any near as much support as I give Bridgewater but he was clearly better.

Kurt Warner said it best when he said "it's not just about completions it's about showing off NFL throws". Bridgewater had a deep pass where his receiver literally had to come to a complete stop and turn to catch it. That counts as a completion but in an NFL game it's an interception.

Bortles showed better velocity on his throws and when he missed a throw it was mostly slight overthrows on deep passes and leading receivers a bit too much on out routes. His receivers didn't really help him either. Bridgewater threw high on quite a few underneath routes and his deep passes were nowhere near where they should have been.

The biggest thing for me was that Bortles showed a lot of improvement in areas (velocity, mechanics/footwork, and touch) whereas Bridgewater looked worse than I think I've ever seen him. In reality Bridgewater likely just had a bad day but Bortles really showed the QB that people think he could potentially become and it was impressive.
Excellent analysis, a draftnik always has to keep an open mind or he will never be good at this hobby. That's why the post season counts, prospects get to workout with pro trainers for 2 months and they no longer have their teammates to make them look better than they are or worse than they are. It is an equal playing field for the first time and you have to watch closely to see if a prospect slides or moves forward. It's unusual to see a major slide this late in the process, but movement still takes place, even if it is only a few spots up or down, especially for anybody who didn't workout at the Combine.

Unfortunately, we also won't hear or be privy to individual team workouts which also count for a lot.
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Old 03-20-2014, 05:19 AM    (permalink
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Trevor Reilly, OLB, Utah - still not 100% post meniscus surgery ran in the 4.69 range, 34" vertical and 9-09 broad.

Gil Brandt thinks he's a 2nd rounder if his knee checks out - anyone heard if NFL teams are concerned about the medical or are OK with it?
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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I like Reilly, knows how to swat that ball, played DE, OLB and even some in the middle, I think he is also 26 along with knee's
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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I like Reilly, knows how to swat that ball, played DE, OLB and even some in the middle, I think he is also 26 along with knee's
Yeah he is 26 - went on a Mormon mission. Already married with a kid who I believe I read had cancer....
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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he general consensus is that Kelvin Benjamin was extremely impressive in his pro day work out.

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Following a dominant pro-day performance in position drills, undoubtedly far more teams are willing to overlook his 4.61 time in Indianapolis.

FSU's Kelvin Benjamin might not be the fastest WR, but as Jimbo Fisher said, "You don't want to play against that guy."
“I really wish he ran, but he has such a unique skill set with his ball skills and catch radius,” one NFC scout said.

While running routes, Benjamin showcased his ability to catch the football at its highest point and make the types of catches most NFL receivers can't. On one throw toward the boundary, NFL coaches cleared as the ball’s flight plan descended toward a coaching cluster. Benjamin hauled in the pass -- easily -- and on the next throw he reached behind to catch an underthrown and off-target toss.

And for those who still question his speed?

“I can open up that stride and stride all day,” he said. “You got a guy who can run 4.3, he’s going to get tired and not keep up with the stride all day.”

Noles coach Jimbo Fisher will be terse with NFL coaches asking if Benjamin is worth a first-round payday.

"You don't want to play against him. That's the ultimate thing,” he said. “I'm telling you this: You don't want to play against that guy. He changes the game.”
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...15&src=desktop
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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I still think Benjamin is a late 1st rounder, early 2nd rounder. Solid upside but a little inconsistent for me to take any higher in this great draft year.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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I'll take Benjamin in Sf over the top 2 cb at 30. If the other wide outs are gone.
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Old 03-20-2014, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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he general consensus is that Kelvin Benjamin was extremely impressive in his pro day work out.


http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...15&src=desktop
His drops issues have been highly overrated, hell T.O. had the same issues and had a HOF caliber type of career. There is no DB in the NFL who can physically match up against him and go up with him to catch a pass. He's a freak who's just scratching the surface of his vast potential. I get Watkins and Evans probably go before him, but any other WR taken before him is dumber than taking Kevin Dyson over Randy Moss.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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I'll take Benjamin in Sf over the top 2 cb at 30. If the other wide outs are gone.
All the other WRs?

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Old 03-20-2014, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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Its obvious from his game tape that KB is great at the short area passes...will do wonders in the redzone.

But don't expect him to stretch the field or run long drawn out routes to get separation. He isn't the same physical player that Jeffery was in college. If he is off the line, and get a free release, he is great. Going deep, he closes the cushion, but can't breakaway unless his man makes a false step/move.

Great catch radius agree with that, but when players get physical with him, he doesn't seem to out muscle them. Gives them the one arm, and out run, works great on go patterns.
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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Stanford's Pro Timing Day was today

Ben Gardner was the star of the day however. Checked in at 6'4" 262 lbs. He timed 4.83-4.88 orty including a 10-yard split of 1.67s. He also had a 4.23 in the short shuttle and 6.78 three cone. His best was a 39.5 inches in the vertical jump and 10'2" in the broad.

Trent Murphy got his 40 down to 4.72-4.75.

Josh Mauro measured in at 6'6" 280lbs and 28 reps at the bench press. Looking like a solid 5-tech prospect.

Ed Reynolds got his 40 down to 4.42 from 4.57.

Shayne Skov didn't run because of a bad hammy but will run later on in another session.
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:40 AM    (permalink
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I'd like to see Skov run at least in the high 4.7s. He's still a good 34 ILB prospect, but it sucks that he's probably a liability in coverage.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:38 AM    (permalink
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EJ Gaines finally got to workout in front of scouts, I heard he impressed, but most players do at their pro day.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:06 AM    (permalink
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I'd like to see Skov run at least in the high 4.7s. He's still a good 34 ILB prospect, but it sucks that he's probably a liability in coverage.
The medical will determine his stock - NFL.com's scouting report (Nolan Nawrocki) indicated the knee is still a problem - thought he looked explosive in 2013 personally, but assume Nawrocki has his contacts....
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Old 03-21-2014, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Stanford's Pro Timing Day was today

Ben Gardner was the star of the day however. Checked in at 6'4" 262 lbs. He timed 4.83-4.88 orty including a 10-yard split of 1.67s. He also had a 4.23 in the short shuttle and 6.78 three cone. His best was a 39.5 inches in the vertical jump and 10'2" in the broad.

Trent Murphy got his 40 down to 4.72-4.75.

Josh Mauro measured in at 6'6" 280lbs and 28 reps at the bench press. Looking like a solid 5-tech prospect.

Ed Reynolds got his 40 down to 4.42 from 4.57.

Shayne Skov didn't run because of a bad hammy but will run later on in another session.
Good to see Reynolds and Murphy turn in better times but have to question some of those times.
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Derek Carr's pro day sounds like it was a success. He supposedly was sick the night before and came out near perfect. I hear he struggled some on his deep balls and that might be his Achilles heel. It may be that at the end of the workout the illness might have caught up with him but it sounds like he's impressed people this post season.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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And for those who still question his speed?

I can open up that stride and stride all day, he said. You got a guy who can run 4.3, hes going to get tired and not keep up with the stride all day.
This seems to be vastly overlooked in looking at his speed. His strides are so damned long that he can get separation deep.

I can't wait until next year when we see how Karlos Williams tests out, he too has that long stride, but we've also seen him run stride for stride 100 yards with the fastest player in CFB Kermit Whitfield.
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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I'll take Benjamin in Sf over the top 2 cb at 30. If the other wide outs are gone.
That's about his range for me, 25 -35, of course I have no way of knowing except by a few comments I hear on NFL.com/Network, how much he has improved or not, from how he played last year. That's why draftniks have a hard time matching pro scouts who can watch the process from start to end.
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MassNole View Post
This seems to be vastly overlooked in looking at his speed. His strides are so damned long that he can get separation deep.

I can't wait until next year when we see how Karlos Williams tests out, he too has that long stride, but we've also seen him run stride for stride 100 yards with the fastest player in CFB Kermit Whitfield.
Yeah, but long striders often has problems running routes, good one way, not so good the other.
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:20 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Good to see Reynolds and Murphy turn in better times but have to question some of those times.
Yeah, Pro Dat times can be very misleading depending on track surfaces, it is my experience when 2 guys who ran at the Combine improve significantly at the same Pro Day and on the same track, from their Combine times, scouts and GM's will just throw out their Pro Day times and go by their Combine times. It is one thing to improve by a .01 or a .02, but when it goes beyond that, you have to know it is the track.

I will say this, every so often, a prospect has an exceptionally bad day at the Combine and is much more impressive at his Pro Day, it works for scouts if they know from experience that the track the Pro day was held at, isn't known to be a fast track.
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Old 03-21-2014, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, but long striders often has problems running routes, good one way, not so good the other.
His route running isn't bad and improved dramatically from his RS-Freshman season. No reason to believe that rate of growth won't continue.
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:33 PM    (permalink
Babylon
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Yeah, Pro Dat times can be very misleading depending on track surfaces, it is my experience when 2 guys who ran at the Combine improve significantly at the same Pro Day and on the same track, from their Combine times, scouts and GM's will just throw out their Pro Day times and go by their Combine times. It is one thing to improve by a .01 or a .02, but when it goes beyond that, you have to know it is the track.

I will say this, every so often, a prospect has an exceptionally bad day at the Combine and is much more impressive at his Pro Day, it works for scouts if they know from experience that the track the Pro day was held at, isn't known to be a fast track.
The other thing that gets my attention with those times is Reynolds doesn't play 4.42, I like him but he's not that fast.
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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The other thing that gets my attention with those times is Reynolds doesn't play 4.42, I like him but he's not that fast.
I really would of liked to see him his senior year, after his So year he looked like a top 20, but then struggled (or really tried to hard) his Jr year, I still like him, but not till late 3rd more like a 4th
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Old 03-21-2014, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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The medical will determine his stock - NFL.com's scouting report (Nolan Nawrocki) indicated the knee is still a problem - thought he looked explosive in 2013 personally, but assume Nawrocki has his contacts....
He was night and day from 2012 to 2013. In his first year back from the knee he didn't have the explosion at all, but he really bounced back this year and made plays. He was never the fastest but he could close on guys still. He is a strong interior Blitzer as well. Hide his lack of speed in a 34 and you have a nice solid player.
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