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Old 04-10-2014, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MassNole View Post
He isn't close to being a Top 100 pick.
Not sure how close but to say he isn't potentially late 3rd or early 4th is a huge stretch.

Campanaro is basically Wes Welker at a similar stage. And Wes was a 4.6 guy and Campanaro ran a 4.46 at the combine.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Don't you think we're getting a little bit too old for the "if you disagree with me, you must not watch football" argument?
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Not sure how close but to say he isn't potentially late 3rd or early 4th is a huge stretch.

Campanaro is basically Wes Welker at a similar stage. And Wes was a 4.6 guy and Campanaro ran a 4.46 at the combine.
Campanaro was repeatedly owned by NFL caliber DBs at Wake Forest. He is no different than Alex Amidon or Connor Vernon.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Campanaro was repeatedly owned by NFL caliber DBs at Wake Forest. He is no different than Alex Amidon or Connor Vernon.
Campanaro had 229 career catches but somehow you know he was owned by NFL caliber DBS. Okay.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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Go look at more than career stats and check out the production he had against quality teams. Both Amidon and Vernon had more success than he did against better competition.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Don't you think we're getting a little bit too old for the "if you disagree with me, you must not watch football" argument?
We all know some people make position rankings without watching the players play.

Putting Verrett with a huge gap at 5th is pretty strong evidence he's done that.

The only explanation would be that you don't include sub 5'10" corners in scheme and therefore that player isn't on your board. Then he wouldn't be ranked at all, which makes way more sense than implying that he's soooooooooo far away from the other CB prospects.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Related, Dennard isn't the prospect people make him out to be and he's not really that close to as good as Verrett. And apparently NFL teams are letting that out now (even though his tightness and issues were apparent on film and in combine drills).

Prince Amukamara's situation is similar to Dennard's. He'll "fall" to the 20s or lower and everyone will call it a steal.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Kelvin Benjamin cancelled on a NFL coach who took a special visit due to him being too tired reported Brandt.

That's a shame if true and shows he doesn't want to work.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Kelvin Benjamin cancelled on a NFL coach who took a special visit due to him being too tired reported Brandt.

That's a shame if true and shows he doesn't want to work.
LOL. This made me think of when Randy Moss was supposed to meet with the Bears for a breakfast interview when he left Marshall. He flew to Chicago, partied all night, and slept it off while the Bears group was sitting in his hotel's restaurant. After a little while, they bailed and took him off the board. It was the owner's son, the GM, the head coach and Walter Payton, who they had dragged from his private life to meet Randy because Randy said he idolized him.

Of course, Benjamin is no Moss. Just made me think of it.
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Old 04-10-2014, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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That's a good story and a reminder that when guys "fall" in the draft there is a human element to the process. A story like that got out after the fact, but think about how many things don't get out. Also, think about how many guys probably completely blow their pre-draft visits.
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Old 04-10-2014, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Go look at more than career stats and check out the production he had against quality teams. Both Amidon and Vernon had more success than he did against better competition.
They all played in the ACC against the same teams....Campanaro probably played in the worst offense of all three players mentioned. He tested really well at the combine too.
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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I can't remember.. were Julio Jones and Atlanta as linked together pre-draft as Sammy Watkins and the Lions are?

Pretty much everyone in the organization has met with Sammy in some capacity. I think it's a little strange that we're showing so much interest in someone we have no chance getting unless we trade up.
I went back and checked on Rotoworld, and they didn't have anything until the day of the draft regarding Atlanta and Jones.

So yeah, maybe a little strange. But after giving Stafford $40+ million in guarantees last summer, maybe they just want to do their best to surround him with weapons.

One other thought, the Lions have said that they'd like to add a pass rushing OLB, so I'm wondering if they're putting a lot of their attention spotlight on Watkins but would be just as happy to move up for Mack.
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:53 AM    (permalink
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Daniel Jeremiah said on NFLN the NFL personnel people he's talking to are suggesting strongly Derek Carr will be selected before Bridgewater. Wow.
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:04 AM    (permalink
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If Kelvin Benjamin did that than he belongs in the second round. Only size will get him in the first with WR class. Blowing off teams will not help you.
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:04 AM    (permalink
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Daniel Jeremiah said on NFLN the NFL personnel people he's talking to are suggesting strongly Derek Carr will be selected before Bridgewater. Wow.
This kind of thing screams smokescreen. If you're an NFL personnel guy, there is zero advantage to being honest about who you like and who you don't prior to the draft.
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:34 AM    (permalink
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This kind of thing screams smokescreen. If you're an NFL personnel guy, there is zero advantage to being honest about who you like and who you don't prior to the draft.
Unless it's a reverse-smokescreen. Maybe they're being completely honest so that everyone will assume it is a smokescreen.
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Old 04-11-2014, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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This kind of thing screams smokescreen. If you're an NFL personnel guy, there is zero advantage to being honest about who you like and who you don't prior to the draft.
Quite true, teams will put out all sorts of rumors to suggest they are looking elsewhere so teams won't jump them by trading past them especially teams targeting QB's.
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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This kind of thing screams smokescreen. If you're an NFL personnel guy, there is zero advantage to being honest about who you like and who you don't prior to the draft.
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Quite true, teams will put out all sorts of rumors to suggest they are looking elsewhere so teams won't jump them by trading past them especially teams targeting QB's.
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Unless it's a reverse-smokescreen. Maybe they're being completely honest so that everyone will assume it is a smokescreen.
The Day after the national championship game is the begining of the lying season, every GM, Coach, Scout and related personnel guy spews crap out every side of their mouth possible, and any other oriface $h!t can come out of. Smoke screens, reverse smoke screens, double reverse smoke screens, whatever... The GM's and scouts have no loyalty to DJ, CD, MM, MK, or any of the lot, puppets and puppet masters. Its like Kings Landing in Game of Thrones, a bunch of Liars, Lying to each other about one anothers lies, hoping their lies will land them in bed with a ***** that wont give them the HIV. Believe nothing you hear and make sure you always have a rubber when listening to the whores whispering sweet nothings into your ear.

No idea where this came from...
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Its a smokescreen if u here one rumor. There have been tons of rumors of Carr's rise. Plus he has visited all the top 10 teams in need of a QB. Dudes a legit option as high as 3 whether people want to believe it or not
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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I went back and checked on Rotoworld, and they didn't have anything until the day of the draft regarding Atlanta and Jones.

So yeah, maybe a little strange. But after giving Stafford $40+ million in guarantees last summer, maybe they just want to do their best to surround him with weapons.

One other thought, the Lions have said that they'd like to add a pass rushing OLB, so I'm wondering if they're putting a lot of their attention spotlight on Watkins but would be just as happy to move up for Mack.
God I hope you're right. Mack would complete that defense.
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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Its a smokescreen if u here one rumor. There have been tons of rumors of Carr's rise. Plus he has visited all the top 10 teams in need of a QB. Dudes a legit option as high as 3 whether people want to believe it or not
I don't know about that.
I think most analysts would be hard pressed to line up Geno Smith's final year at WVU and Carr's at Fresno State and find that much separation between the two.

Carr has trouble with pressure in the pocket and it's not something I think you can ignore as a GM.
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Its a smokescreen if u here one rumor. There have been tons of rumors of Carr's rise. Plus he has visited all the top 10 teams in need of a QB. Dudes a legit option as high as 3 whether people want to believe it or not
Personally I have no doubt he's a legit option as high as 3, 4, 8, in the first round, as Gabbert was a legit option as high as 1 a couple years ago, Gabbert visited all the teams in need of a QB too. Both have the same problem; they fall apart at the first sign of danger, both have the same strength; they can "spin it" against air. There is more than one team that sends out smoke screens on the same player, because more than one team wants another team to take him to free up another player for themselves.
I have no doubt teams are falling in love with Carr's arm and like Jax did years ago fall so in love that they either reach, or move up to get him like happened with Gabbert. Similar to Ponder as well, the buzz got stronger and stronger leading up to the draft, then BAM!! Ponder like Gabbert, soon to be likely like Carr they go early.
It shouldnt be shocking that more than one team is lying about him or anyone else, just because there are more than one lie about anyone out there does not make it all true all the sudden. Misturth + Lie + Misinformation + Planted Statement = Truth?

IMO; Truth = Carr is a 2nd Round Developmental guy, taking him in the first and pressing him into a starting role is setting him and yourself up for failure.
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Poz51 View Post
Personally I have no doubt he's a legit option as high as 3, 4, 8, in the first round, as Gabbert was a legit option as high as 1 a couple years ago, Gabbert visited all the teams in need of a QB too. Both have the same problem; they fall apart at the first sign of danger, both have the same strength; they can "spin it" against air. There is more than one team that sends out smoke screens on the same player, because more than one team wants another team to take him to free up another player for themselves.
I have no doubt teams are falling in love with Carr's arm and like Jax did years ago fall so in love that they either reach, or move up to get him like happened with Gabbert. Similar to Ponder as well, the buzz got stronger and stronger leading up to the draft, then BAM!! Ponder like Gabbert, soon to be likely like Carr they go early.
It shouldnt be shocking that more than one team is lying about him or anyone else, just because there are more than one lie about anyone out there does not make it all true all the sudden. Misturth + Lie + Misinformation + Planted Statement = Truth?

IMO; Truth = Carr is a 2nd Round Developmental guy, taking him in the first and pressing him into a starting role is setting him and yourself up for failure.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I was saying before the offseason started that teams were going to fall in love with Carr during workouts and he was going to be drafted higher than he should be.

Like you, I actually think Carr is a good QB prospect. I'd be happy taking him in the 2nd round. He has some serious tools to work with. He's athletic, he has a nice arm, he has a very quick release, and seems to be a high character guy with a strong work ethic. His struggles against pressure are real though and are backed up by statistics. Also people knock Bridgewater for having a bad deep ball, which is fair, but the numbers suggest that Carr is atrocious in that area. Carr completed 44% of his passes over 20 yards. He also completed just 50% of his passes when pressured. If a team ignores these serious flaws and drafts him high because of his physical skills he's going to bust when they let him start as a rookie. It'll be unfortunate if that happens.
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Old 04-11-2014, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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If Kelvin Benjamin did that than he belongs in the second round. Only size will get him in the first with WR class. Blowing off teams will not help you.
Help you like blowing off a meeting with Bill Gates, and then expecting Warren Buffett to hire you after Buffett had dinner the following day with Gates?

I might be over doing the analogy, but Blowing off a scout or Head coach? (regardless, they all talk) who made a special (not special, whatever) trip to meet you and work you out is pretty much like spitting in his face (if it is true...), that is something personnel people across the league are not going to take lightly. This incident might be one of the few truths NFL personnel people discuss amongst themselves between now and the draft.
Given the questions surrounding his personnal motivation, this cant be good for him.
If he has had too many private workouts (which is likely), his agent should be scaling them back, at least in regards to the volume.

Hey, at least he was on Game Changers and the fans will think he's really cool!! Maybe he was tired from that workout with M. Irving...
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=9581

Quote:
- Sources close to the team say if Calvin Pryor/S/Louisville drops into the second day he is a priority for the Detroit Lions.
– Consensus is Mike Evans/WR/Texas A&M is a lock to be a top ten pick. Several teams feel the spread between he and Sammy Watkins of Clemson is not a great as many are making it out to be, something I completely agree with. Based on conversations its my educated “guess” the team who selects Evans will make a trade to acquire his services . Right now it looks like three teams are the frontrunners to make some sort of move for Evans. If the St Louis Rams trade out of the second spot, and they will make every effort to do as much, Evans would be a target assuming they stay in the top ten. Two teams selecting in the middle of the first frame who are very high on Evans and would consider trading up to grab him are the Philadelphia Eagles and Baltimore Ravens.
– Now that DeSean Jackson is no longer with the organization receiver becomes a need for the Philadelphia Eagles. With the way this draft shapes up a receiver in round one is a likely possibility if they stand pat at pick 22. I’ve mentioned Brandin Cooks of Oregon State being a good fit for the team and I understand he’ll be a consideration in round one. The other wide out I expect to get play from the Eagles is Marquis Lee of USC.
– Several teams presently grade Zach Martin of Notre Dame ahead of Michigan’s Taylor Lewan. For the record I disagree and feel Lewan is the most underappreciated of the top tackles. I’m told Martin offers potential at four spots on the offensive line, both tackle and guard spots, and is less prone to making mental mistakes compared to Lewan.
– For some reason people seem to be sleeping on Phillip Gaines, the big bodied cornerback from Rice who stunned scouts by clocking as fast as 4.31s in the forty at the combine. Gaines had dinner with the Jacksonville Jaguars last month the evening before his pro-day and has trips lined up with the New York Giants, Arizona Cardinals, Miami Dolphins and Buffalo Bills. He’s also worked out with the Cincinnati Bengals and Tampa Bay Bucs. Gaines is presently rated as a fifth rounder on our cornerback board.
– On Tuesday evening I reported the New England Patriots worked out Virginia Tech prospects Logan Thomas and DJ Coles. There’s some additional insight on this workout. The feeling league wide is the Patriots will take a quarterback at some point in the draft as they expect to lose Ryan Mallett at the end of next season, hence the interest in Thomas. As far as Coles is concerned, I’m told the Patriots had him do a lot of tight end work during the 45 minutes spent in position drills. This included coming out of a three point stance, blocking drills and lining up in the slot. Consider this; Coles measures in the area of 6-feet/3-inches and 235 pounds, timing in the high 4.4s in the forty. When the Patriots selected Aaron Hernandez his official measurements went 6-feet, 2.5-inches, 245lbs with a 4.58s forty time. Something to think about.
– Prior to the news he had torn a knee ligament during a workout with the New Orleans Saints, Brandon Thomas/OL/Clemson had official visits set up with the Oakland Raiders, Dallas Cowboys, Miami Dolphins and Carolina Panthers as well as workouts with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and New York Giants. Obviously the workouts are nixed and I’ve received no word on the visits.
– One offensive lineman on the mend, Spencer Long of Nebraska, is scheduled to hold a private workout on April 17th in which he’ll be doing offensive line drills. Long could end up being selected much earlier (4th round) than people presently project.
- Scouts were very impressed with Towson running back Terrance West during his pro-day workout earlier this week. In miserable conditions of pouring rain and cold weather, West tipped the scale at 230-pounds (five more than the combine) then looked good in drills. A number of the teams looking for a bigger back feel West has solidified himself as a fourth round choice.
– West was not the only one to turn heads during Towson’s pro-day. Cornerback Jordan Love, a free agent sleeper with a real chance as a dime back/special teams player at the next level, measured 5107/190lbs then timed 4.46s in the forty, 6.89 in the 3 cone and 4.00 in the short shuttle.
- I reported earlier Larry Webster spent the bulk of his time at Bloomsburg pro-day participating in tight end drills. The reviews have been positive. Though Webster showed some stiffness at his new position he caught the ball with his hands away from his frame rather than body catching. Webster has tremendous physical skills but scouts question his heart, something apparent on film. Webster does not play with the warrior mentality nor always look like the most competitive guy on the field.
April 7th
- I’m told besides working out Rutgers receivers Brandon Coleman and Quron Pratt today, the Philadelphia Eagles had both Kelvin Benjamin/WR/Florida State and Cody Latimer/WR/Indiana at their facility for an official visit.
– Add the San Diego Chargers to the list of teams bringing in Cody Latmer/WR/Indiana in for an official 30 visit. While most feel the Chargers will look for a true burner in the draft there’s some concern about depth at the receiver position with questions surrounding the Malcolm Floyd and Danario Alexander.
– The San Diego Chargers are also bringing in New Mexico offensive lineman Darryl Johnson, who primarily lined up at both left and right tackle for the Lobos but projects to guard in the NFL. The New Orleans Saints will be working out Johnson, who has next level size as well as athleticism and should, at the very least, be a practice squad developmental prospect.
– Even before today’s pro-day workout at Towson running back Terrance West had already worked out for the Atlanta Falcons and made an official visit to see the Tennessee Titans. I’m told the Minnesota Vikings are also interested in the record setting ball carrier. The belief right now is Tennessee would be the frontrunner to select West.
- John Ulrich, a sleeper offensive tackle from Georgia State who recently ran 4.93s in the forty at 290lbs during a regional combine, has trips lined up to see the Atlanta Falcons and Seattle Seahawks.
– Last week sources told me they expect an offensive tackle heavy draft from the Seattle Seahawks next month. The hope is to select a versatile edge blocker as protection in case the team cannot resign Russell Okung when his contract is up in two years.
– Even with their recent moves in free agency I’m told the Tampa Bay Buccaneers hope to come out of the draft with at least one offensive tackle and/or offensive guard with starting potential. The Bucs want versatility and a blocker who can handle multiple positions.
– After his terrific performance at pro-day last week I was informed Chaz Sutton/DE-OLB/South Carolina met with both the Houston Texans and Oakland Raiders.
April 4th
- Earlier this week I reported that insiders informed me the Minnesota Vikings hope to select one of the higher rated linebackers early in round one (Khalil Mack being their preference) then grab their quarterback in round two. Zach Mettenberger being their signal caller of choice. Since then more sources have confirmed my report, verifying the team is high on Mettenberger who they believe is a perfect fit for Norv Turner’s system. Depending on how he does at pro-day next week many question if Mettenberger will even be available to Minnesota in round two.
- Who could take Mettenberger before the Vikings are called on the clock in round two? The Cleveland Browns, that’s who. While many have the Browns taking a quarterback with the fourth pick of the draft, most believe they’ll nab a signal caller with either the 26th or 35th pick of the process. If they don’t go quarterback in round one where does Cleveland look? Most believe it will be offensive tackle. Several sources tell me the team is hot and cold on Mitchell Schwartz and will look for an upgrade. In fact I’m told the Browns made a play for Eugene Monroe when he was on the trading block. Many claim “you don’t draft a right tackle with a top ten pick” but looking at the versatility and interchangeability of the tackle prospects excepted to be available at fourth pick its understandable why any team would go that route.
- Back to Zach Mettenberger. I’m told its very unlikely he’ll do any of the shuttles, 3-cone, etc, next week at pro-day but will complete a full passing workout. In recent weeks Mettenberger has had no issues on sprint outs or roll outs in preparation for his workout.
- Word in scouting circles has Dakota Dozier of Furman building momentum for himself recently. Scouts point to way Dozier stepped up against better competition the past two seasons, specifically mentioning the game film against LSU and Clemson. I’m told Dozier has had private workouts with the Carolina Panthers and Jacksonville Jaguars.
- Thus far the reviews from private workouts have been positive for Logan Thomas. For example, last week when the Arizona Cardinals worked him out I’m told he was accurate on all his throws including dropping a few in the bucket deep downfield to end the workout. From a physical and character stand point Thomas continues to impress teams.
- The other prospect impressing scouts in these workouts is DJ Coles, who benefits from being the practice receiver for Logan Thomas. Coles is physically impressive and very much looks the part. He’s been looking sharp since pro-day. Injuries stunted Coles development but go back and watch his 2011 tape if you have the availability and you’ll see the makings of a legitimate NFL receiver.
- Scouts are still buzzing over the performance of Ben Gardner during Stanford’s pro-day. Teams believe Gardner could develop into a Jarret Johnson type of player, i.e. a college defensive end with decent size who’ll stand up over tackle in a 3-4 at the next level.
- I’m told Johnson’s present squad, the San Diego Chargers, worked out Akron offensive lineman Jarrod Pughsley today. Pughsley, who lined up primarily at tackle for the Zips, is a fairly athletic blocker who projects to guard at the next level.
A lot in there.

1) I just traded up for Mike Evans as Seattle in the forum mock. I don't think they'll actually do it but I do think Atlanta could trade down and still get a LT. STL taking OT at No. 2 then using 13+2nd rounder to get up for Evans at 6 or 7 makes some sense too.

2) I still think the Pats trade Mallett on draft day.
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