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Old 04-28-2014, 06:25 PM    (permalink
Sportsfan486
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I'm actually not sure when Haha has been mentioned as any sort of elite prospect. Most people think he'll go top 15 because safeties are becoming super important, not because he's top 15 talent wise.

I like him. He's very rangy and fluid, has plus ball skills, plus instincts and is still a plus coming up in run support. Combine numbers aside, he's a more fluid athlete backpedaling and converging on receivers than any of the other safeties in this class.

Do I think he'll be an all-pro? Probably not. Is he the clearcut #1 at a position of great importance? Yup.

I've seen more people hop on the Pryor bandwagon, yet when you watch ANY of his game tapes you can count multiple times where he fails his deep responsibilities. Or whiffs on tackles because he refuses to wrap up.

So no, Haha isn't an elite talent. But he is the best available this year.
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Old 04-28-2014, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MidwestJimmy View Post
or Deone Buchanon and Ha Ha
Deone Buchanon is my #1 safety, so doesn't matter to me, no one is going to surpass him in my book. Flat out playmaker.
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Old 04-28-2014, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Deone Buchanon is my #1 safety, so doesn't matter to me, no one is going to surpass him in my book. Flat out playmaker.
For both teams.....
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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I have Ward and Bucannon as my two best safeties depending on what you need. There's no doubt that Ward has much better range than Clinton-Dix. It's not even close.
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by E_Bird View Post
I have Ward and Bucannon as my two best safeties depending on what you need. There's no doubt that Ward has much better range than Clinton-Dix. It's not even close.
Well that settles that. Damn my eyes for lying to me when watching their tapes side by side!!
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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Mark Barron has gotten better each year. If he keeps it up this year he will be eating pineapples in late January .

But anyways back on topic. Pryor > Clinton Dix

Last edited by Breed : 04-28-2014 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 04-28-2014, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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Well that settles that. Damn my eyes for lying to me when watching their tapes side by side!!
He also said earlier that it was obvious that Ward and Bucannon were better than Clinton-Dix and Pryor. I don't have a problem with thinking they're better, although I disagree with it, but it's certainly not obvious.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fredder View Post
He also said earlier that it was obvious that Ward and Bucannon were better than Clinton-Dix and Pryor. I don't have a problem with thinking they're better, although I disagree with it, but it's certainly not obvious.
There's a disparity in athleticism and production. It's only my opinion, and I think that's understood, but I'm calling it as I see it. To me, they're not close. Pryor has special attributes as a SS, but of the top 4, he's the worst in coverage. Clinton-Dix doesn't have dynamic instincts or athleticism, and it shows in his production. Bucannon brings Pryor's SS traits, but he's closer to Clinton-Dix in coverage, and he's a better play maker than either. Ward is the best cover safety in the draft, and after he was voted best DB at the Senior Bowl, he put up much better test numbers than Pryor or Clinton-Dix - with a stress-fracture.

Again, just my opinion.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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I think people are sleeping a bit with Clinton-Dix. It's not like he hasn't been on the map for the past 2 years. We've been talking about him way longer then we have about Pryor.

Anyone else see Darren Sharper in Clinton-Dix?

Sharper - Ht: 6'2"Wt: 210 lbs
Clinton-Dix - Ht: 6'1"Wt: 208 lbs

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His full name is Ha'Sean Clinton-Dix. Elite recruit out of Florida, where he doubled as a running back and kick returner. Played in 13 games for Alabama as a true freshman in '11 and recorded 11 tackles and two pass breakups. Was a key performer for the national champions in '12, appearing in all 14 games (10 starts) at safety. Had 37 tackles, four pass breakups and five interceptions with one-half tackle for loss and one forced fumble. Tied for the SEC lead in interceptions, including picks in the SEC Championship Game win over Georgia and the BCS National Championship Game win over Notre Dame. In '13, he played in 11 games (nine starts at free safety) and totaled 51-4-2 with 3.5 tackles for loss. Received a suspension for accepting a short-term loan of less than $500 from an assistant coach, missing two games. Injured his knee against Auburn on Nov. 30, necessitating surgery on the meniscus tear, but returned to the field for the Allstate Sugar Bowl.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profil...dix?id=2543470
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by E_Bird View Post
There's a disparity in athleticism and production. It's only my opinion, and I think that's understood, but I'm calling it as I see it. To me, they're not close. Pryor has special attributes as a SS, but of the top 4, he's the worst in coverage. Clinton-Dix doesn't have dynamic instincts or athleticism, and it shows in his production. Bucannon brings Pryor's SS traits, but he's closer to Clinton-Dix in coverage, and he's a better play maker than either. Ward is the best cover safety in the draft, and after he was voted best DB at the Senior Bowl, he put up much better test numbers than Pryor or Clinton-Dix - with a stress-fracture.

Again, just my opinion.
I disagree with Bucannon being a better playmaker than Pryor. Looking at his production is a mistake. He picked up a ton of tackles because he played on a bad defense and got to clean up a bunch of plays 10+ yards down the field. Of the 3 INTs I saw from him one was a nice play at the end of a blowout loss to Arizona State, the other 2 were terrible throws from the QB. The 3 that I didn't watch were against Southern Utah, Idaho, and Colorado State. Needless to say his numbers were very inflated IMO. I'd say they're equally bad in coverage as Bucannon gave up a lot of plays in the games I watched.

Bucannon also really struggled in space from what I saw which scares me. He missed multiple tackles in each of the 5 games I watched.

I'm not a huge fan of Clinton-Dix as I thought he was very inconsistent on tape, but he definitely flashes great ability. I really like Ward but there are enough questions about him that I would never say he was obviously better than Clinton-Dix. It's hard to judge film of a guy going up against terrible teams vs. a guy playing in the SEC. I'm worried enough about Ward's size to avoid saying he's obviously better than Clinton-Dix.

In reality I'm not a big fan of this safety class. There are a bunch of decent prospects but I don't see a top 15 type player. I'd prefer the value of Ward/Bucannon in the 2nd to Pryor/Clinton-Dix in the top 15 but I don't think they're obviously better players. When you say it like that it makes it sounds like you think anyone with a differing opinion is dumb.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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Is he the clearcut #1 at a position of great importance? Yup.

So no, Haha isn't an elite talent. But he is the best available this year.
No way.
What makes him the clearcut #1?
The fact that he's slower than Bucannon, or the fact that he's weaker?
Or that he played for Saban in college with nothing but 5-star prospects?

Let the Lions take this guy.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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I think people are sleeping a bit with Clinton-Dix. It's not like he hasn't been on the map for the past 2 years. We've been talking about him way longer then we have about Pryor.

Anyone else see Darren Sharper in Clinton-Dix?

Sharper - Ht: 6'2"Wt: 210 lbs
Clinton-Dix - Ht: 6'1"Wt: 208 lbs


http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profil...dix?id=2543470
Got to know Sharper well...... he was a guy who went for an int any chance he could get.... gave up some big plays as a result.

Kind of like the Asante Samuel or DeAngelo Hall of safeties.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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Got to know Sharper well...... he was a guy who went for an int any chance he could get.... gave up some big plays as a result.

Kind of like the Asante Samuel or DeAngelo Hall of safeties.
I'd take 4.5 picks and 60 tackles a year over 14 years.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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I disagree with Bucannon being a better playmaker than Pryor. Looking at his production is a mistake. He picked up a ton of tackles because he played on a bad defense and got to clean up a bunch of plays 10+ yards down the field. Of the 3 INTs I saw from him one was a nice play at the end of a blowout loss to Arizona State, the other 2 were terrible throws from the QB. The 3 that I didn't watch were against Southern Utah, Idaho, and Colorado State. Needless to say his numbers were very inflated IMO. I'd say they're equally bad in coverage as Bucannon gave up a lot of plays in the games I watched.

Bucannon also really struggled in space from what I saw which scares me. He missed multiple tackles in each of the 5 games I watched.

I'm not a huge fan of Clinton-Dix as I thought he was very inconsistent on tape, but he definitely flashes great ability. I really like Ward but there are enough questions about him that I would never say he was obviously better than Clinton-Dix. It's hard to judge film of a guy going up against terrible teams vs. a guy playing in the SEC. I'm worried enough about Ward's size to avoid saying he's obviously better than Clinton-Dix.

In reality I'm not a big fan of this safety class. There are a bunch of decent prospects but I don't see a top 15 type player. I'd prefer the value of Ward/Bucannon in the 2nd to Pryor/Clinton-Dix in the top 15 but I don't think they're obviously better players. When you say it like that it makes it sounds like you think anyone with a differing opinion is dumb.
That's fair enough. Not my intent, but fair enough.

Ward is entering the league the same size as Ed Reed, and the small school talk is strange considering that Mack - who played on a lesser team in the same conference - is a consensus top 5 player. But he didn't outproduce Barr like Ward outproduced Clinton-Dix and Pryor. Every time he's had a step up in competition, he's excelled, and he has the instincts and athleticism to make that stick.

I wouldn't want Bucannon in the single-high very often, but I think he'll do great in any 2-deep scheme, and he'll have + coverage skills as a SS. He moves very well (again, Bucannon and Ward are the better athletes), and he makes plays (6 INT's, 3 FF's).
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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So nobody is saying that Clinton-Dix is anything near an elite talent.
Why then is he being projected around the #10 pick in a draft this deep overall?
Reaching for safeties?

Again, his film and measurements tell me he's for sure not the best S in this class, free or strong.

Only time will tell.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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So nobody is saying that Clinton-Dix is anything near an elite talent.
Why then is he being projected around the #10 pick in a draft this deep overall?
Reaching for safeties?

Again, his film and measurements tell me he's for sure not the best S in this class, free or strong.

Only time will tell.
The same reason that CJ Mosely was projected as a top 10 player for the longest time. Still not sure what that reason is though....

Somehow Clinton-Dix has managed to keep his lofty ranking. I guess that's probably due to the fact that he plays a more premium position.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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While I don't think Clinton-Dix is really that special, I do think he is still the top Safety in the draft and will be drafted anywhere from 12 to about 18. Right now, teams are spending time going over film with all the added knowledge of their physical abilities learned from the Combine and/or their Pro Days, to put their final touches on a draft board that is already fairly set.

It is pretty late in the process and I don't think there will be a whole lot of movement from the ranking we have been looking at. At this point, they are pretty well set in stone. Only new health or character issues can effect their rankings from here on in.

All the rumors at this point in the process, are just being used to sell newspapers or to keep viewers returning to sights like 'Path to the Draft' or NFL.com. IMO, it's over folks, unfortunately, we have to wait to see how it turns out.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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HCD is a pretty good player, but I've dropped him a bit. He probably shouldn't be a top 15 pick in a draft this deep. He'll probably be a long time starter, but I don't think he makes enough splash plays to warrant that kind of consideration.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fredder View Post
The same reason that CJ Mosely was projected as a top 10 player for the longest time. Still not sure what that reason is though....

Somehow Clinton-Dix has managed to keep his lofty ranking. I guess that's probably due to the fact that he plays a more premium position.
Mosley on the other hand is a guy I like more as I watch him. Its just his health that bothers me.
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:48 AM    (permalink
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I mean people are hyping him a tad, but real draft rankings have him about the middle of the draft. Is that so crazy?

Yeah he isn't the in the box guy as much as Pryor or Buccanon. Yeah he doesn't have the pure range of Ward. But he is above average as a prospect in most areas.

If he can do one thing well and everything else above average in the pros, he is a really really good prospect.

C'mon this isn't Laron Landry or Donte Whitner going top ten.
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:05 AM    (permalink
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He will follow in the long line of hyped Alabama defensive players who became mediocre NFL players:


Dee Milliner, CB, 1 round
Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, 1 round
Mark Barron, CB, 1 round
De'Quan Menzie, CB, 5 round
Kareem Jackson, CB, 1 round
Javier Arenas, CB, 2 round
Marquis Johnson, CB, 7 round
Rashad Johnson, S, 3 round

And now this guy.
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomoz View Post
He will follow in the long line of hyped Alabama defensive players who became mediocre NFL players:


Dee Milliner, CB, 1 round
Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, 1 round
Mark Barron, CB, 1 round
De'Quan Menzie, CB, 5 round
Kareem Jackson, CB, 1 round
Javier Arenas, CB, 2 round
Marquis Johnson, CB, 7 round
Rashad Johnson, S, 3 round

And now this guy.

mark barron has been pretty good hasnt he?
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wicket View Post
mark barron has been pretty good hasnt he?
Hasn't been special for someone drafted top-8. Still has time to prove his worth, but from what I've seen he's just been a slightly above-average box safety.
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Barron has shown flashed, but has for the most part flat out struggled.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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Where do you think Haha will be drafted?
Is it just mocksters who overrate him, and GMs will know better and take him later?

Or is he going around #9, #12, ?
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