Newest trade rumor

PittPete · 04-09-2007, 10:01 AM

I have it from an impeccable source(OK, its my teenage son), that the steelers are goinng to trade Marvel smith and the 15 to Arizona to get their 5 and take Landry. There were a few games where Smith got spun like a top and my son hasn't forgiven him and wants him gone. I would like an upgrade at LT but it is easier said than done as there are few premier left tackles around. His argument for Landry is solid however. He is one of the best looking defensive backs to come along in a long time; big fast athletic and a football player. He reasons that we make him a corner, where we are very shaky. Look at all the teams that used big wideouts to eat us alive last year, there just aren't ANY big corners that can cover these guys. Having a true shutdown corner like Landry would give us a premier secondary that could counter the current passing trend that seems to dominate the NFL these days. And the more I think of it, Landry is the flatout best defensive player in the draft.

mikehop05 · 04-09-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PittPete

I have it from an impeccable source(OK, its my teenage son), that the steelers are goinng to trade Marvel smith and the 15 to Arizona to get their 5 and take Landry. There were a few games where Smith got spun like a top and my son hasn't forgiven him and wants him gone. I would like an upgrade at LT but it is easier said than done as there are few premier left tackles around. His argument for Landry is solid however. He is one of the best looking defensive backs to come along in a long time; big fast athletic and a football player. He reasons that we make him a corner, where we are very shaky. Look at all the teams that used big wideouts to eat us alive last year, there just aren't ANY big corners that can cover these guys. Having a true shutdown corner like Landry would give us a premier secondary that could counter the current passing trend that seems to dominate the NFL these days. And the more I think of it, Landry is the flatout best defensive player in the draft.

i wont argue that landry is / will be great

but everything else i will argue with,

there is no way we get rid of smith on my opinion, we dont have any other left tackle capable of replacing him besides essex, who hasnt proven he can play at the level smith has (though its not even that high)

landry is a saftey, pure and simple, he wont be playing corner, and smith did get lost in zone coverage twice to my memory, but it was his rookie year and he did make a lot of good plays for us, once he learns the defense more (which he will by this year) then he will be a solid starter for us

as far as shutting down taller guys, ike taylor actually does a ecent job of that, he stuck on guys like chad johnson, chris chambers, and braylon edwards (though got beat once for a TD)... im not saying ike is the anwser, just that he often did well against bigger recievers, and though he gets beat like a redheaded stepchild in zone coverage and cant catch a cold, he can run with most recievers in the NFL man to man

and honestly you cant say landry would be a great corner when he spent most of his career as safety... the transition just isnt that easy, you can make a corner a safety but not the other way around always,

and another thing about smith, and the rest of the line... im giving them a mulligan on last year, as we went to a different way of calling out the protection in letting the line call it out... which will be different this year in ben calling it out, so now he knows where the protection is, also smith made the probowl in 05, its dumb to write him off after one season, if he sucks again then okay let him go, but till then he is better then id say 75% of the leauge in his position, and will be better than any rookie, minus thomas maybe

Man_Of_Steel · 04-09-2007, 11:23 PM

I dont like the idea of trading away a starting lineman for a guy who has great talent but plays a position that i feel is one of our strongest.

I say sit where we are and take Revis who is a natural physical corner, we get our guy and dont give up anything.

mikehop05 · 04-09-2007, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man_Of_Steel

I dont like the idea of trading away a starting lineman for a guy who has great talent but plays a position that i feel is one of our strongest.

I say sit where we are and take Revis who is a natural physical corner, we get our guy and dont give up anything.

eh, not a fan of taking a corner round one, but revis would be my choice if we did

kiper picked him in his on the clock for us, i mean i like him as a player but there are just other guys i wish we'd pick

PittPete · 04-10-2007, 10:09 AM

Even if Taylor and Mcfadden play lights out this year, I think we still need to upgrade the position. I dont see it happening at 15 but maybe 2nd round; Mccauley or Hughes? Townsend had a rough year last year and just doesn't have the speed or size to keep up with todays premier giant wideouts. As for safeties not being able to convert to cb easily, I heartily agree; except that Landry is not your typical safety. He has superstar written all over him, and I think almost any db needs time to adjust to the nfl. Give him a year or so and he could be a shutdown corner. As I stated in my opening thread, Smith is a good but not great tackle. Replacing him would not be easy, Essex was very good for about two games, then got buried for some reason. I think Essex would be a better pass blocker than Smith but Marvel would be the better run blocker. My expert source(again my son) would move Faneca to LT; He did very well when he played there and is probably better than either Smith or Essex. He wants Blalock in the worst way(me too) and would start him and Kemo at guards. The whole key here is adding a true premier player to the lineup; instead of loading up with OK players.

Mr. Stiller · 04-11-2007, 08:47 AM

i wont argue that landry is / will be great

I might. Landry has a great build, but he's not a can't miss prospect. He reminds me of Dawkins, but I'd never put dawkins at CB. If you want a Safety/CB guy, take Reggie Nelson.

but everything else i will argue with,

there is no way we get rid of smith on my opinion, we dont have any other left tackle capable of replacing him besides essex, who hasnt proven he can play at the level smith has (though its not even that high)

Smith is an above average LT, not great. Joe Thomas has higher upside and Frankly if we traded our starting LT, for a #5 overall CB/S, I'd be rather upset. Landry has never shown capability to play CB, Thats a lot of money to invest in a position we have a solid core of, and honestly I don't think Landry could do it. Remember for every Rod Woodson there's atleast 10 Chad Scotts.

landry is a saftey, pure and simple, he wont be playing corner, and smith did get lost in zone coverage twice to my memory, but it was his rookie year and he did make a lot of good plays for us, once he learns the defense more (which he will by this year) then he will be a solid starter for us

Smith also had 2 INT's IIRC, and knocked countless amounts of receivers senseless (Atleast Droughns, Edwards, Winslow, TJ, and 1 other I remember). I have to say Safety is probably the 1 position we don't need a guy, and CB is the 2nd, it'd be nice to have a true #1, Like Revis, but why trade up when Revis will likely be around at #15? Revis will be 10x the CB that Landry could.

as far as shutting down taller guys, ike taylor actually does a ecent job of that, he stuck on guys like chad johnson, chris chambers, and braylon edwards (though got beat once for a TD)... im not saying ike is the anwser, just that he often did well against bigger recievers, and though he gets beat like a redheaded stepchild in zone coverage and cant catch a cold, he can run with most recievers in the NFL man to man

Ike Taylor does well, but with our abysmal pass rush, and the fact that every team had 5-10 chances a game from our 30 yd line (Whether INT or Fumble) it's very difficult to defend that. I want to see how we do this season, with some youth on defense before I say we need a Paul Oliver or Dwight Lowery

and honestly you cant say landry would be a great corner when he spent most of his career as safety... the transition just isnt that easy, you can make a corner a safety but not the other way around always,

Exactly, Like I stated for every Rod Woodson, there's atleast 10 Chad Scotts.

and another thing about smith, and the rest of the line... im giving them a mulligan on last year, as we went to a different way of calling out the protection in letting the line call it out... which will be different this year in ben calling it out, so now he knows where the protection is, also smith made the probowl in 05, its dumb to write him off after one season, if he sucks again then okay let him go, but till then he is better then id say 75% of the leauge in his position, and will be better than any rookie, minus thomas maybe

I wouldn't give them a mulligan per se as they did suck, and should deal with it. But Frankly there's so many variables here.

1) Age: Hartings retired, Marvel isn't getting younger and Alan is 31.
2) Complex offense: Arians is streamlining the bloated playbook
3) Ben's calling the protections: Now he has motivation, protect his own ass.
4) If we traded away our Pro-Bowl LT to move up, we damn well better get either Gaines Adams or Joe Thomas. Then I'd think wed have to trade up for Staley because we're lacking a LT. Even Thomas is no gaurentee right now. I'd agree that Marvel has 2 years at best left at LT and we need a future Franchise LT. But trading away a franchise LT for a Safety we hope can transition into a corner... and if he doesn't that leaves us with Smith or Landry on the bench and atleast a wasted pick...

Mr. Stiller · 04-11-2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PittPete

Even if Taylor and Mcfadden play lights out this year, I think we still need to upgrade the position. I dont see it happening at 15 but maybe 2nd round; Mccauley or Hughes? Townsend had a rough year last year and just doesn't have the speed or size to keep up with todays premier giant wideouts. As for safeties not being able to convert to cb easily, I heartily agree; except that Landry is not your typical safety. He has superstar written all over him, and I think almost any db needs time to adjust to the nfl. Give him a year or so and he could be a shutdown corner. As I stated in my opening thread, Smith is a good but not great tackle. Replacing him would not be easy, Essex was very good for about two games, then got buried for some reason. I think Essex would be a better pass blocker than Smith but Marvel would be the better run blocker. My expert source(again my son) would move Faneca to LT; He did very well when he played there and is probably better than either Smith or Essex. He wants Blalock in the worst way(me too) and would start him and Kemo at guards. The whole key here is adding a true premier player to the lineup; instead of loading up with OK players.

I'd like an upgrade, but frankly I don't see it as probable or necessary. If we add a Corner, it'll be Revis/Houston. Houston shut down Calvin Johnson, Sidney Rice, Marcus Monk. If you're only worried about big guys, he's your man. If you want a pure coverage and run support CB.. IE shutdown #1, Revis is your man. Landry hasn't shown that he's definitely solid in run support and hasn't shown his ability at Corner. I want Grubbs in the worst way because the guy is the "Perfect" guard.

McCauley I'd grab in 3 as he seems to not have the will to play. Don't forget, he's the same size as Ike. Whereas Daymeion Hughes is 5'10, 175 lbs and has abysmal 4.6 speed. I know it's not all about the speed, but when you're facing 4.3 WR's, he's not physical enough to jam them, and he can't keep up with them.

If I had to take a CB, it would be a rd 5/6 guy like Travarious Bain or Michael Coe.

PittPete · 04-11-2007, 10:19 AM

Landry is Chad Scott #2? Cant see that at all. I do like Roger Nelson and would favor using him that way as well. Again, our depth at cb is just not there. If Ike or Mcfadden go down with injury, what do we do? I think we have to use either a 1 or 2 on a cb.

Mr. Stiller · 04-11-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PittPete

Landry is Chad Scott #2? Cant see that at all. I do like Roger Nelson and would favor using him that way as well. Again, our depth at cb is just not there. If Ike or Mcfadden go down with injury, what do we do? I think we have to use either a 1 or 2 on a cb.

We have used #2's on Coke/McFadden. They're both still around. Ike is around.

Horton said last year that with another year of coaching that Coke could move to #1.

I'm not saying Landry is Chad Scott #2, but with no experience at CB, it's risky. I don't agree. With 3 gaurds up for contracts, and both LT's up the season after. Our RT is on a 1 year deal. And we only have 2 OLB's. I'd say depth after our 3rd/4th CB is a minor issue.

Ike, Bryant, Coke, DeShea... If those 4 go down, you're in for trouble anyways. We have no depth at DE/OLB and OL's future is bleak. Those are more important to me than drafting a round #2 CB to compete with the 2 we have now, not to mention a shut down #1 that was demoted last season..

mikehop05 · 04-11-2007, 12:02 PM

stiller mentioned it but to reiterate, part of our bad coverage was the lack of a consistent pass rush

quienten jammer looked amazing last year in large part due to merriman,phillips, and their front 3 harassing the QB

PittPete · 04-12-2007, 02:19 PM

this is the 2nd thread I have to state; Colclough is the 2nd coming of Scott Shields--good athlete that doesn't cover anybody and cant tackle. He would be my first cut on the team. And as much as I admire Townsend for his tremendous performance when he is small and slow, he is a weakness(overpaid one too) as a third corner. We need another corner!!! There are ten players in this draft that could be our number three; some of them with some real upside.

mikehop05 · 04-12-2007, 11:15 PM

well i still think coclough deserves another chance, and with tomlin there maybe he can learn a lil somethin

Mr. Stiller · 04-13-2007, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PittPete

this is the 2nd thread I have to state; Colclough is the 2nd coming of Scott Shields--good athlete that doesn't cover anybody and cant tackle. He would be my first cut on the team. And as much as I admire Townsend for his tremendous performance when he is small and slow, he is a weakness(overpaid one too) as a third corner. We need another corner!!! There are ten players in this draft that could be our number three; some of them with some real upside.

2 things then....

1) Ray Horton went as far to say had Coke not been injured, he would've been #1 last year when Ike was doghoused. My first cuts would be Tuman/Wilson.

find me 3 #3 CB's better than Townsend. There isn't any. He's declining and doesn't have the athleticism he once did to make up for his lack of size, but he's still better than 99% of other #3's. Overpaid? Perhaps, but he's also shown why he gets paid that. He's a great veteran leader, and he's still the best damn Blitzer/run stopping CB we have.

2) You don't need to draft a #3 on the first day. Theres plausible prospects throughout the draft.

Don't forget we're developing Anthony Madison... What good would a #3 with tons of upside do? our Top 3-4 are fine. Hell 90% of the Nickel/Dime packages, Tyrone Carter plays Corner.

Mr. Stiller · 04-13-2007, 03:13 AM

And if I were to pick a Safety Convert, it wouldn't be Laron Landry,.

It'd be John Wendling.

Dude is the next coming of Carnell Lake... if not Rod Woodson. Amazing...

4.48, but has been timed at 4.38... 10yd was a 1.51, 4th among S
6'1 222lbs, he has great size bigger than Landry.
22 reps, he's strong enough #2 in safeties.
38.5 vert, very impressive, with these #'s, he looks like he could take on stronger, more physical receivers. Only 1 FS had a higher vert, Gerald Alexander -> Boise.
10'9" broad, don't know exactly what this measures, but still impressive #1 In safeties.
4.16 Shuttle, if I read correctly, the lower shuttle means he's more explosive #1 in safeties
6.96 cone drill,

PittPete · 04-13-2007, 10:37 AM

Last spring, Cowher was bellowing how Coke was going to have to step up this year(last) and prove himself and he and his coaches were saying allt the right things in hopes of him actually doing something to help the team. Outside of maybe one return, Coke was a total disaster and has never shown anything. Townsend is probably as good as 50% of the 3rd cbs in the league rather than your inflated 99%. And I'm still not sure about Ike being for real. which means if Mcfaddden goes down, our corners are iffy Ike, mighty mouse(Townsend) and superflop(Coke). With the passhappy NFL that now exists, how can youz guyz be happy with our corner situation?

Mr. Stiller · 04-13-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PittPete

Last spring, Cowher was bellowing how Coke was going to have to step up this year(last) and prove himself and he and his coaches were saying allt the right things in hopes of him actually doing something to help the team. Outside of maybe one return, Coke was a total disaster and has never shown anything. Townsend is probably as good as 50% of the 3rd cbs in the league rather than your inflated 99%. And I'm still not sure about Ike being for real. which means if Mcfaddden goes down, our corners are iffy Ike, mighty mouse(Townsend) and superflop(Coke). With the passhappy NFL that now exists, how can youz guyz be happy with our corner situation?

Coke was actually showing amazing potential last season before the injury. People remember him for the PRs, but he was doing a damn good job in coverage. he wasn't getting any help.

I'm not happy per se, I'm not even happy with our QB or TE or any situation. We can always do better, but we have greater needs than a CB.

04-14-2007, 02:16 AM

of course the guy with a Anthony Smith sig thinks we dont need a safety
no but really to trade anything to move up to 5 and take Landry makes absolutely no sense what so ever

Mr. Stiller · 04-14-2007, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zCALz

of course the guy with a Anthony Smith sig thinks we dont need a safety
no but really to trade anything to move up to 5 and take Landry makes absolutely no sense what so ever

Haha zCALz,

You know there is absolutely no need for a Safety.

Clark was OK, Smith showed tons of potential (I mean he was killing left and right) Polamalu is the best SS in the league, and Carter did a damn good job filling in, including getting a game winning turnover.

PittPete · 04-14-2007, 09:48 AM

OK lets put it this way. Is there any team in the league we would trade all our safeties for all their safeties? Nope!! How many teams would you trade our corners for theirs? Many teams have one elite corner and some real emerging talent to supplement them. Mcfadden seems to be an ideal no2 cb. Ike, if he gets his head out of his ass and with proper coaching COULD be a no1. What I'm saying is that it would be really nice to have a true shutdown corner, a guy that can handle a top wideout. I've watched Landry quite a bit and see him as a guy that offense wants to avoid; whether he could be a corner in the nfl with the same impact while playing corner is certainly debatable. But I think he is one of those guys(Like Troy) that only comes along every few years and would be worth trading up for. Our secondary truely looked like **** last year and while the best reason for improvement was sending the db coach elsewhere, our corners are nothing to be secure about.

Mr. Stiller · 04-14-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PittPete

OK lets put it this way. Is there any team in the league we would trade all our safeties for all their safeties? Nope!! How many teams would you trade our corners for theirs? Many teams have one elite corner and some real emerging talent to supplement them. Mcfadden seems to be an ideal no2 cb. Ike, if he gets his head out of his ass and with proper coaching COULD be a no1. What I'm saying is that it would be really nice to have a true shutdown corner, a guy that can handle a top wideout. I've watched Landry quite a bit and see him as a guy that offense wants to avoid; whether he could be a corner in the nfl with the same impact while playing corner is certainly debatable. But I think he is one of those guys(Like Troy) that only comes along every few years and would be worth trading up for. Our secondary truely looked like **** last year and while the best reason for improvement was sending the db coach elsewhere, our corners are nothing to be secure about.

Ike is a shutdown #1. He shut down Chad Johnson 3x, Marvin Harrison 2x(Minus 1 td), Rod Smith, Bobby Engram, Not to mention Derrick Mason and every other #1 WR we played our Superbowl season.

Sure he's lacking a pair of hands, but when he's on, our secondary on his side is lock down.

I think too, once Smith gets more comfortable, that no one will want to receive on us. Kellen Winslow and Reuben Droughns don't. TJ Doesn't.

PittPete · 04-16-2007, 10:26 AM

Ike is a shutdown? How does a shutdown corner shut anyone down while sitting on the bench? He got scorched something like 3 games in a row before his demotion. Anthony Smith is probably our best defensive back right now and I love Troy. I'm hoping, and you are assuming, that Ike's problem was Darren Perry's coaching was to blame. It seemed that the defensive scheme was to let receivers get 5 yards of room and then tackle them after the catch, which is a nightmare. Even at their best, Mcfadden and Ike are probably B+ corners, which isn't bad but I would like to have an A+ back there. Having a premier cb backed up by Mcf and Ike is one hell of a backfield.

Mr. Stiller · 04-16-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PittPete

Ike is a shutdown? How does a shutdown corner shut anyone down while sitting on the bench? He got scorched something like 3 games in a row before his demotion. Anthony Smith is probably our best defensive back right now and I love Troy. I'm hoping, and you are assuming, that Ike's problem was Darren Perry's coaching was to blame. It seemed that the defensive scheme was to let receivers get 5 yards of room and then tackle them after the catch, which is a nightmare. Even at their best, Mcfadden and Ike are probably B+ corners, which isn't bad but I would like to have an A+ back there. Having a premier cb backed up by Mcf and Ike is one hell of a backfield.

Wouldnt we all, but we won a Superbowl without a A+ Corner, Even without hands Don't forget that Ike had a crucial INT in the SB, not to mention he shut down everyone. Tomlin is enamored with Ike and I think We're fine, If Tomlin coaches up the secondary (He's doing good so far), we'll be fine.