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Old 07-28-2006, 01:51 AM    (permalink
portermvp84
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Their only good secondary guy is Dre Bly by far.
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Old 07-28-2006, 05:06 AM    (permalink
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Woodson has the most talent out of all of them I believe, so I picked him
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Old 07-28-2006, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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Winfield... and I really don't think its that close... I personally believe that Harris is overrated, and its not because he is a Packer.

These are Winfield's stats since he joined the Vikings (two years). He is not known for his great hands so he doesn't have many interceptions.

2004: 14 games, 85 tackles, 3 INT, 5 Pass Deflects
2005: 16 games, 98 tackles :!: , 4 INT, 4 Pass Deflects

These are Al Harris stats the past two years. I'm only doing recent stats because the poll is about who is the best right now, so what they did 5 years ago doesn't matter.

2004: 16 games, 62 tackles, 1 INT, 19 Pass Deflects
2005: 16 games, 53 tackles, 3 INT, 10 Pass Deflects

Now, you can make a case for Harris because he has more PDFs, but Winfield has the edge in tackles and interceptions. However, I'd still take Winfield because he has the best tackling ability of any corner in the NFL and can get a few picks despite not having very good hands (from his days in Buffalo).

(Stats from NFL.com)
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Old 07-28-2006, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanTaylor21
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Originally Posted by PACKmanN
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Originally Posted by thetedginnshow
I went with Winfield. I've though Harris and Bly were overrated for a while.
In what way shape or form is Harris overrated? You must mean he underrated.
Because all packers fan swear up and down he is a top 5 corner when he has a hard time cracking a top 15 list.
says the redskin fan who thinks sean taylor is a saint.
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Old 07-28-2006, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jpapa4490
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Originally Posted by SeanTaylor21
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Originally Posted by PACKmanN
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Originally Posted by thetedginnshow
I went with Winfield. I've though Harris and Bly were overrated for a while.
In what way shape or form is Harris overrated? You must mean he underrated.
Because all packers fan swear up and down he is a top 5 corner when he has a hard time cracking a top 15 list.
says the redskin fan who thinks sean taylor is a saint.
:roll: Wow that wasn't lame.
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Old 07-28-2006, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VikesRule
Winfield... and I really don't think its that close... I personally believe that Harris is overrated, and its not because he is a Packer.

These are Winfield's stats since he joined the Vikings (two years). He is not known for his great hands so he doesn't have many interceptions.

2004: 14 games, 85 tackles, 3 INT, 5 Pass Deflects
2005: 16 games, 98 tackles :!: , 4 INT, 4 Pass Deflects

These are Al Harris stats the past two years. I'm only doing recent stats because the poll is about who is the best right now, so what they did 5 years ago doesn't matter.

2004: 16 games, 62 tackles, 1 INT, 19 Pass Deflects
2005: 16 games, 53 tackles, 3 INT, 10 Pass Deflects

Now, you can make a case for Harris because he has more PDFs, but Winfield has the edge in tackles and interceptions. However, I'd still take Winfield because he has the best tackling ability of any corner in the NFL and can get a few picks despite not having very good hands (from his days in Buffalo).

(Stats from NFL.com)
You can't really judge a CB by stats only, just look at the bengals cb's
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Old 07-29-2006, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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Well it's not like he did INTs, it was more of showing how good Winfield is in run support.
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Old 07-29-2006, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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Who the hell votes for Charles Woodson I mean come on honestly me real.
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Old 07-29-2006, 01:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SeanTaylor21
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Originally Posted by PACKmanN
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Originally Posted by thetedginnshow
I went with Winfield. I've though Harris and Bly were overrated for a while.
In what way shape or form is Harris overrated? You must mean he underrated.
Because all packers fan swear up and down he is a top 5 corner when he has a hard time cracking a top 15 list.
Give em a break. Now that Favre is washed up they don't have a whole lot of good players to talk about. Harris is probably the best player on their team. Maybe in a few years A.J Hawk can be the guy.
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Old 07-29-2006, 08:57 AM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by sik wit it
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.
It's impossible to say which corners shut down which receivers unless you watched and made sure he was actually covering that receiver during the game. I can tell you right now through common sense that Harris didn't hut Steve Smith down. Harris is a RCB. Steve Smith is a flanker. They wouldn't even be lined up on the same side of the field.
Personally, I find it really difficult to vote a RCB as one of the best corners in the game. Right corners are dime a dozen. They play a lot of squat and zone coverage and are often involved in double teams with the free safety. Left corners are the premium corners.
And you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The Packers don't have, (maybe they will this year with Woodson and Harris), a RCB and a LCB. Harris was always on the #1 reciever. He rotated sides.
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Old 07-29-2006, 09:01 AM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by portermvp84
Oh i see we have some people that voted for Charles Woodson.
I admit I was one of those few people. I really expected a lot out of him. But from what I have heard, he got burnt by a handful of recievers in the first practice of TC yesterday. Maybe it was because he skipped all of the workouts and was out of shape. I'm not totally down on him yet because there is tons of time before the season starts, but I am quite disappointed.
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Old 07-29-2006, 09:24 AM    (permalink
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Dre Bly
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Old 07-29-2006, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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it's close but i voted al haris.
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Old 07-29-2006, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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I love Harris and I think hes arguably a top 10 CB and definetely top 15, but Winfield is the best CB in the group. Bly is overratedd and C. Wood could be the best CB in the group if he ever gets his act together.
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Old 07-29-2006, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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Personally, I think Winfield is a tad overrated. The reason he is rated so highly is because he is a good tackling corner. And as someone mentioned, (I don't remember if it was this thread or another) a corner with a lot of tackles isn't always a good thing. Harris plays man-to-man better and gets beat deep a little less than Winfield does.
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Old 07-29-2006, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAWICGB
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
Quote:
Originally Posted by sik wit it
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.
It's impossible to say which corners shut down which receivers unless you watched and made sure he was actually covering that receiver during the game. I can tell you right now through common sense that Harris didn't hut Steve Smith down. Harris is a RCB. Steve Smith is a flanker. They wouldn't even be lined up on the same side of the field.
Personally, I find it really difficult to vote a RCB as one of the best corners in the game. Right corners are dime a dozen. They play a lot of squat and zone coverage and are often involved in double teams with the free safety. Left corners are the premium corners.
And you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The Packers don't have, (maybe they will this year with Woodson and Harris), a RCB and a LCB. Harris was always on the #1 reciever. He rotated sides.
Yes he does, YFS is a genius.
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Old 07-29-2006, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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I really like Dre Bly, and then Antoine Winfield
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAWICGB
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
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Originally Posted by sik wit it
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.
It's impossible to say which corners shut down which receivers unless you watched and made sure he was actually covering that receiver during the game. I can tell you right now through common sense that Harris didn't hut Steve Smith down. Harris is a RCB. Steve Smith is a flanker. They wouldn't even be lined up on the same side of the field.
Personally, I find it really difficult to vote a RCB as one of the best corners in the game. Right corners are dime a dozen. They play a lot of squat and zone coverage and are often involved in double teams with the free safety. Left corners are the premium corners.
And you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The Packers don't have, (maybe they will this year with Woodson and Harris), a RCB and a LCB. Harris was always on the #1 reciever. He rotated sides.
http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=25113

2003: Took over the starting right cornerback job after joining the Packers in an offseason trade with Philadelphia. Played in all 16 games for the sixth straight year, starting all 16 contests for the first time as a pro. Also started both playoff games. Holds an active streak of 96 consecutive games played (105 including postseason) - 16 with Green Bay after 80 with the Eagles. Made 3 interceptions (tied for third on the team) among a career-high 14 passes defensed (also third on club). Recorded 46 tackles (43 solo), tying him for ninth on the team, including 1 forced fumble (his first as a pro). Added 9 stops, 1 interception and 2 pass breakups during the postseason. Also had a pair of return touchdowns over the course of the season, including an interception that instantly became an indelible part of Packers lore. Earned NFL 'Defensive Player of the Week' honors for Wild Card Weekend in recognition of his game-winning inteception return for a touchdown.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
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Originally Posted by KAWICGB
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
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Originally Posted by sik wit it
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.
It's impossible to say which corners shut down which receivers unless you watched and made sure he was actually covering that receiver during the game. I can tell you right now through common sense that Harris didn't hut Steve Smith down. Harris is a RCB. Steve Smith is a flanker. They wouldn't even be lined up on the same side of the field.
Personally, I find it really difficult to vote a RCB as one of the best corners in the game. Right corners are dime a dozen. They play a lot of squat and zone coverage and are often involved in double teams with the free safety. Left corners are the premium corners.
And you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The Packers don't have, (maybe they will this year with Woodson and Harris), a RCB and a LCB. Harris was always on the #1 reciever. He rotated sides.
http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=25113

2003: Took over the starting right cornerback job after joining the Packers in an offseason trade with Philadelphia. Played in all 16 games for the sixth straight year, starting all 16 contests for the first time as a pro. Also started both playoff games. Holds an active streak of 96 consecutive games played (105 including postseason) - 16 with Green Bay after 80 with the Eagles. Made 3 interceptions (tied for third on the team) among a career-high 14 passes defensed (also third on club). Recorded 46 tackles (43 solo), tying him for ninth on the team, including 1 forced fumble (his first as a pro). Added 9 stops, 1 interception and 2 pass breakups during the postseason. Also had a pair of return touchdowns over the course of the season, including an interception that instantly became an indelible part of Packers lore. Earned NFL 'Defensive Player of the Week' honors for Wild Card Weekend in recognition of his game-winning inteception return for a touchdown.
2003 he might have been able to stay on one side because he and McKenzie were very close in talent. the past couple years he has followed the #1 WR. If one CB is much better than the other teams will do that. If they are about equal they can stay on just one side.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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People, actually watch football before you post crap. Just because he is offically the RCB, doesn't mean he only plays on the right side. Teams put their #1 CB on the other teams' #1 WR all the time. And you would know that by even watching a couple football games.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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People, actually watch football before you post crap. Just because he is offically the RCB, doesn't mean he only plays on the right side. Teams put their #1 CB on the other teams' #1 WR all the time. And you would know that by even watching a couple football games.
Not all teams do. The Dolphins don't and the Cowboys don't.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
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Originally Posted by KAWICGB
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
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Originally Posted by sik wit it
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.
It's impossible to say which corners shut down which receivers unless you watched and made sure he was actually covering that receiver during the game. I can tell you right now through common sense that Harris didn't hut Steve Smith down. Harris is a RCB. Steve Smith is a flanker. They wouldn't even be lined up on the same side of the field.
Personally, I find it really difficult to vote a RCB as one of the best corners in the game. Right corners are dime a dozen. They play a lot of squat and zone coverage and are often involved in double teams with the free safety. Left corners are the premium corners.
And you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The Packers don't have, (maybe they will this year with Woodson and Harris), a RCB and a LCB. Harris was always on the #1 reciever. He rotated sides.
http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=25113

2003: Took over the starting right cornerback job after joining the Packers in an offseason trade with Philadelphia. Played in all 16 games for the sixth straight year, starting all 16 contests for the first time as a pro. Also started both playoff games. Holds an active streak of 96 consecutive games played (105 including postseason) - 16 with Green Bay after 80 with the Eagles. Made 3 interceptions (tied for third on the team) among a career-high 14 passes defensed (also third on club). Recorded 46 tackles (43 solo), tying him for ninth on the team, including 1 forced fumble (his first as a pro). Added 9 stops, 1 interception and 2 pass breakups during the postseason. Also had a pair of return touchdowns over the course of the season, including an interception that instantly became an indelible part of Packers lore. Earned NFL 'Defensive Player of the Week' honors for Wild Card Weekend in recognition of his game-winning inteception return for a touchdown.
2003 he might have been able to stay on one side because he and McKenzie were very close in talent. the past couple years he has followed the #1 WR. If one CB is much better than the other teams will do that. If they are about equal they can stay on just one side.
That's actually not true at all. It's actually very, very rare that a corner will switch sides.

What teams do is they play their best man-to-man corner at the LCB spot. Almost every NFL team's best corner is the LCB, with a few notable exceptions like Detroit [Dre Bly], Buffalo [Nate Clements], Green Bay [Al Harris], and [I think, but I'm not 100% sure] Seattle [Marcus Trufant]. The LCB is lined up over the opposing team's Z receiver [most teams' #2 receiver] and is given the task of shutting him down in single coverage.

With the LCB shutting the Z down by himself, it allows the strong safety to play the run more agressively. In turn, the RCB and free safety double cover the X receiver [usually the number 1 receiver].

Quite frankly, the demands of playing LCB are far, far more demanding. Al Harris came to the Packers as a nickleback in Philadelphia and took over the RCB spot because Mike McKenzie was firmly entrenched at LCB. Common sense dictates that if Harris was able to play LCB, they wouldn't have spent a bunch of draft picks on highly athletic corners [LCB prototypes]. RCBs are easy to replace. LCBs aren't.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VikesRule
Winfield... and I really don't think its that close... I personally believe that Harris is overrated, and its not because he is a Packer.

These are Winfield's stats since he joined the Vikings (two years). He is not known for his great hands so he doesn't have many interceptions.

2004: 14 games, 85 tackles, 3 INT, 5 Pass Deflects
2005: 16 games, 98 tackles :!: , 4 INT, 4 Pass Deflects

These are Al Harris stats the past two years. I'm only doing recent stats because the poll is about who is the best right now, so what they did 5 years ago doesn't matter.

2004: 16 games, 62 tackles, 1 INT, 19 Pass Deflects
2005: 16 games, 53 tackles, 3 INT, 10 Pass Deflects

Now, you can make a case for Harris because he has more PDFs, but Winfield has the edge in tackles and interceptions. However, I'd still take Winfield because he has the best tackling ability of any corner in the NFL and can get a few picks despite not having very good hands (from his days in Buffalo).

(Stats from NFL.com)
becuase Harris is a cover CB not a INT CB.
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:00 PM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
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Originally Posted by draftguru151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriots-Lions
People, actually watch football before you post crap. Just because he is offically the RCB, doesn't mean he only plays on the right side. Teams put their #1 CB on the other teams' #1 WR all the time. And you would know that by even watching a couple football games.
Not all teams do. The Dolphins don't and the Cowboys don't.
Like I said, the vast majority of NFL teams have their corners set as a LCB and a RCB. The schemes are already intricate and complex enough as it is. If they had to start changing everything around just because the other teams receiver lined up on a different side of the field it would be absolutely ridiculous.

The NFL isn't like Madden, where you can have your number 1 corner follow the number 1 receiver around. It's a tad unrealistic to have your corners know how to play LCB, RCB, and nickleback for every freaking play in the defensive playbook.
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:01 PM    (permalink
Moses
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
Quote:
Originally Posted by draftguru151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriots-Lions
People, actually watch football before you post crap. Just because he is offically the RCB, doesn't mean he only plays on the right side. Teams put their #1 CB on the other teams' #1 WR all the time. And you would know that by even watching a couple football games.
Not all teams do. The Dolphins don't and the Cowboys don't.
Like I said, the vast majority of NFL teams have their corners set as a LCB and a RCB. The schemes are already intricate and complex enough as it is. If they had to start changing everything around just because the other teams receiver lined up on a different side of the field it would be absolutely ridiculous.
Are you serious? Most teams will matchup their cornerbacks on certain receivers to get the best matchups possible. Otherwise, teams would just keep putting their star receivers against weaker cornerbacks.
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