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Old 04-23-2007, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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Exactly my point. In the NFL, you need to do everything well and some things great to even be considered good. There are very few specialists on the field. Even if you are amazing at one thing (pass rush, run stuff, etc), that doesn't release you from your responsibilities. Deion had amazing cover skills. Probably a once in a generation player in terms of those skills. However, he was horrendous as a tackler, and he was a liability there. That is a combination of player weaknesses and poor coaching for not ensuring that he learned and executed properly.
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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And thats an overlooked fault of Deion's. Theres no question that he was the greatest cover corner ever, but his run support was weak.

Some teams would even take advantage of it. Theyd run close formations, with the WR close to the LT, and run sweeps at Deion.

Even after that though, I personally don't know if I would take any other CB over Deion. His coverage was so amazing, the things you can do defensively with a guy like that is limitless.
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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It's virtually impossible not to take him on an all-time team, but on an all-time team, the other players out on the field would be able to cover most of his deficiencies.
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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Well were does Sanders return abilities get into this? And he played some offense as well.
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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It's virtually impossible not to take him on an all-time team, but on an all-time team, the other players out on the field would be able to cover most of his deficiencies.
Still, if you could take Rod Woodson or Deion Sanders in their prime and chuck them on any team in the NFL, most people would take Sanders.
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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I am absolutely with you on that. I wasn't comparing those 2 in any way. I'm not the genius who made the comparison. My point was that Deion's glaring weaknesses were a significant issue and could have easily made the difference in numerous games in his career.
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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Brett Favre is a God, how can he not be the best?
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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I assume you're not serious, N-H.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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More of the Woodson being a better player than Deion argument.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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I really don't think you can make that argument, but that doesn't stop people from trying...
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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I think it's Jerry Rice. He was that much better than the next best WR in history. Jim Brown and Johnny Unitas are close, but they aren't even the unanimous #1 at their position according to most people. I agree with Vince that the fact that Brown and Barry Sanders walked away in their prime hurt them in my eyes. I just don't think dominating for 9 years is as impressive as dominating for 16 years.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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I think it's Jerry Rice. He was that much better than the next best WR in history. Jim Brown and Johnny Unitas are close, but they aren't even the unanimous #1 at their position according to most people. I agree with Vince that the fact that Brown and Barry Sanders walked away in their prime hurt them in my eyes. I just don't think dominating for 9 years is as impressive as dominating for 16 years.
What I find odd is that nobody freaked out on Sanders for retiring in his prime but when Ricky Williams did everybody lost it on him.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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I think it's really impossible to get any sort of consensus on GPOAT. That's why there are all-decade and 75th anniversary teams. Players evolve, and so does the game. You have to look at players in the context of history and their era. It is difficult to compare players across eras due to style of play, rules, equipment, training, coaching, technology, etc. I really refuse to express an opinion with my GPOAT because it wouldn't be fair in any way.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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What I find odd is that nobody freaked out on Sanders for retiring in his prime but when Ricky Williams did everybody lost it on him.
Well a lot of people were upset and outraged about Sanders retiring so early, when he could have easily set many rushing records, but the reason people were so angry with Williams and upset over it is becasue why he did it. Basically he just chose pot over football, whereas Sanders was just done with the game.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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I think it's really impossible to get any sort of consensus on GPOAT. That's why there are all-decade and 75th anniversary teams. Players evolve, and so does the game. You have to look at players in the context of history and their era. It is difficult to compare players across eras due to style of play, rules, equipment, training, coaching, technology, etc. I really refuse to express an opinion with my GPOAT because it wouldn't be fair in any way.
Exactly. Then you get into the whole problem of positions which makes it even more difficult (It's impossible to say that a runningback is a better player than a cornerback because they have completely different responsibilities).
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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Well a lot of people were upset and outraged about Sanders retiring so early, when he could have easily set many rushing records, but the reason people were so angry with Williams and upset over it is becasue why he did it. Basically he just chose pot over football, whereas Sanders was just done with the game.
I think it's a little shallow to say Williams chose pot over football. He wanted to pursue other interests and it was clear his heart wasn't in the game anymore.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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I think it's a little shallow to say Williams chose pot over football. He wanted to pursue other interests and it was clear his heart wasn't in the game anymore.
I put it kind of bluntly yeah, but that was a key reason in his retirement...or at least that's how the media chose to play it, which is why there was more outrage over his leaving football then Sanders.
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Old 04-23-2007, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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The answer here is Walter Payton and there are only a handful of guys in the history of the game that even deserve to be in the same conversation.

As to those voting for Jerry Rice, WR's are the position most dependent on the success of other players. Absent a good O-Line and QB (at least) WR's are easily neutralized.

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Old 04-23-2007, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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I assume you're not serious, N-H.
You assumed correctly, he's had a decent career though.


There's really no way to know who's the best. I would probably say Lawrence Taylor if he didn't have off the field problems, then he would focus more and be even better. Peyton Manning will probably get this crown when he's done.

I think it's Jerry Rice though, nobody else has as much separation at their position between them and whoever's 2nd. You can argue who's best at every other position but there's no debate at Wide Receiver.
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Old 04-23-2007, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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I think it's Jerry Rice. He was that much better than the next best WR in history. Jim Brown and Johnny Unitas are close, but they aren't even the unanimous #1 at their position according to most people. I agree with Vince that the fact that Brown and Barry Sanders walked away in their prime hurt them in my eyes. I just don't think dominating for 9 years is as impressive as dominating for 16 years.
Pretty much the same as my own thought, the Greatest Player would have to be Jerry Rice. No one did it as long nor likely will ever again for that long. Jerry Rice was the greatest WR ever without a doubt and no other positional debate will yield such a clear cut winner so its Jerry.
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Old 04-23-2007, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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This arguement is very subjective. Football is specialists sport. How can you say that Joe Montana was a better football player than LT Sr or Jim Brown? LT Sr. was as important to his teams Super Bowl wins as Montana was?

Did Montana make Jerry Rice a Superstar or was it vice versa.
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Old 04-23-2007, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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You Arrredddy know :)
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Old 04-23-2007, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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This arguement is very subjective. Football is specialists sport. How can you say that Joe Montana was a better football player than LT Sr or Jim Brown? LT Sr. was as important to his teams Super Bowl wins as Montana was?

Did Montana make Jerry Rice a Superstar or was it vice versa.
Hey, you actually have an intelligent post, I have to give you props for this one.
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Old 04-23-2007, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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For some reason I say Bart Starr.
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Old 04-23-2007, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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For some reason I say Bart Starr.
And that reason would be because you are stupid. I don't even have to explain why.
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