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Old 09-12-2006, 01:28 PM    (permalink
 
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Washington by far they have portis at back three kick ass wides Moss, Lyodd, and Randle El. Their quarterback is above average and they have a steller line and a good pro bowl tight end.

The reason why Dallas is so high is because they have TO and Julius Jones they aren't as good as every one thinks. Redskins, Giants, Cowboys, Eagles all have good offenses.
Skins offense was poor last night. Agianst the Vikings D.
The Vikes D now if above average they have good players on both sides of the ball especailly their d line young and strong.
And the best offense in the NFC East scores 1 TD and 16 points against them? Come on.
We were missin the biggest part of our offense and that is clinton portis. Watch what we do to the cowboys is all i gotta say.
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Old 09-12-2006, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
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Originally Posted by portermvp84
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Washington by far they have portis at back three kick ass wides Moss, Lyodd, and Randle El. Their quarterback is above average and they have a steller line and a good pro bowl tight end.

The reason why Dallas is so high is because they have TO and Julius Jones they aren't as good as every one thinks. Redskins, Giants, Cowboys, Eagles all have good offenses.
Skins offense was poor last night. Agianst the Vikings D.
The Vikes D now if above average they have good players on both sides of the ball especailly their d line young and strong.
And the best offense in the NFC East scores 1 TD and 16 points against them? Come on.
We were missin the biggest part of our offense and that is clinton portis. Watch what we do to the cowboys is all i gotta say.
You will do nothing to the Cowboys. Don't you know Bledsoe is going to blow that game. All your team needs to do is show up and put on their pads. The rest will work out itself.
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Old 09-12-2006, 01:36 PM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by portermvp84
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Originally Posted by portermvp84
Washington by far they have portis at back three kick ass wides Moss, Lyodd, and Randle El. Their quarterback is above average and they have a steller line and a good pro bowl tight end.

The reason why Dallas is so high is because they have TO and Julius Jones they aren't as good as every one thinks. Redskins, Giants, Cowboys, Eagles all have good offenses.
Skins offense was poor last night. Agianst the Vikings D.
The Vikes D now if above average they have good players on both sides of the ball especailly their d line young and strong.
And the best offense in the NFC East scores 1 TD and 16 points against them? Come on.
We were missin the biggest part of our offense and that is clinton portis. Watch what we do to the cowboys is all i gotta say.
You will do nothing to the Cowboys. Don't you know Bledsoe is going to blow that game. All your team needs to do is show up and put on their pads. The rest will work out itself.
Bledsoe doesnt play defense though.
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Old 09-12-2006, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SeanTaylor21
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Originally Posted by portermvp84
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Originally Posted by Number 10
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Originally Posted by portermvp84
Washington by far they have portis at back three kick ass wides Moss, Lyodd, and Randle El. Their quarterback is above average and they have a steller line and a good pro bowl tight end.

The reason why Dallas is so high is because they have TO and Julius Jones they aren't as good as every one thinks. Redskins, Giants, Cowboys, Eagles all have good offenses.
Skins offense was poor last night. Agianst the Vikings D.
The Vikes D now if above average they have good players on both sides of the ball especailly their d line young and strong.
And the best offense in the NFC East scores 1 TD and 16 points against them? Come on.
We were missin the biggest part of our offense and that is clinton portis. Watch what we do to the cowboys is all i gotta say.
You will do nothing to the Cowboys. Don't you know Bledsoe is going to blow that game. All your team needs to do is show up and put on their pads. The rest will work out itself.
Bledsoe doesnt play defense though.
I predict a 14-0 victory. Skins return two INTS to the house and have trouble on offense. :D That would be nice.
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Old 09-12-2006, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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Lol, just so everyone remembers, it's not that I was really trying to contend that Dallas has the best O in the division (which I think is a legitimate argument), but rather trying to make some points to be included in other's arguments. Like, for example, the Bledoe vs. Manning debate. Bledsoe was better last year, no comparison. Anyone who tries to say differently has no ground to stand on, as all stats say differently, despite the fact that Eli's supporting cast was significantly better, along with the ease of his schedule.

So that was not my point. The point was about this season. In the first place, I just want to say that I think there is an 80-90% chance that Eli will be a signficantly better QB by the time the 07 season starts than Bledsoe. This year it could really go either way. My contention was that the safer bet is the veteran. I hold to that point, and I think that the first game actually bears it out.

"WHAT!!! ARE YOU CRAZY!?!?! Look at the stats you idiot!:
Manning: 20-34/247/2td/1int/rating88
Bledsoe: 16-33/246/1td/3ints/rating 46"

Hold on for a sec. Let's not forget about Eli that he was still all over the place with his throws and that without those two unbelievable circus catches by Burress (that only maybe 4 or 5 other players in this league are even capable of catching), the first on third down which would have killed a drive and the second with :40 seconds left in the half, then his impressive 247 yards would have quickly shrunk to about 180, while his comp % that was already not great at 59% would have fallen right about where he was last year to 52.9%.

As for Bledsoe, if you watched the game you know that he came out early and was nearly flawless. He started 5 of 6 on his first drive and was impressive throughout the first quarter, but suddenly began to look uncomfortable and out of sinc. Right now there is a media frenzy in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area trying to figure out what the hell happened to cause the change, and Bledsoe did admit to having hurt his back before going on to downplay it. Not an excuse by any means, but bears mentioning. All I'm saying is that Bledsoe looked much better in that first quarter (against a much better D, too) than Eli looked at any point in the Indy game. I know that facts are facts, but to take pride in Eli's performance when his two biggest gainers were both bad passes is missing the point more than just a little.
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Old 09-12-2006, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Lol, just so everyone remembers, it's not that I was really trying to contend that Dallas has the best O in the division (which I think is a legitimate argument), but rather trying to make some points to be included in other's arguments. Like, for example, the Bledoe vs. Manning debate. Bledsoe was better last year, no comparison. Anyone who tries to say differently has no ground to stand on, as all stats say differently, despite the fact that Eli's supporting cast was significantly better, along with the ease of his schedule.

So that was not my point. The point was about this season. In the first place, I just want to say that I think there is an 80-90% chance that Eli will be a signficantly better QB by the time the 07 season starts than Bledsoe. This year it could really go either way. My contention was that the safer bet is the veteran. I hold to that point, and I think that the first game actually bears it out.

"WHAT!!! ARE YOU CRAZY!?!?! Look at the stats you idiot!:
Manning: 20-34/247/2td/1int/rating88
Bledsoe: 16-33/246/1td/3ints/rating 46"

Hold on for a sec. Let's not forget about Eli that he was still all over the place with his throws and that without those two unbelievable circus catches by Burress (that only maybe 4 or 5 other players in this league are even capable of catching), the first on third down which would have killed a drive and the second with :40 seconds left in the half, then his impressive 247 yards would have quickly shrunk to about 180, while his comp % that was already not great at 59% would have fallen right about where he was last year to 52.9%.

As for Bledsoe, if you watched the game you know that he came out early and was nearly flawless. He started 5 of 6 on his first drive and was impressive throughout the first quarter, but suddenly began to look uncomfortable and out of sinc. Right now there is a media frenzy in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area trying to figure out what the hell happened to cause the change, and Bledsoe did admit to having hurt his back before going on to downplay it. Not an excuse by any means, but bears mentioning. All I'm saying is that Bledsoe looked much better in that first quarter (against a much better D, too) than Eli looked at any point in the Indy game. I know that facts are facts, but to take pride in Eli's performance when his two biggest gainers were both bad passes is missing the point more than just a little.

:roll:

The TD pass was in a good spot. And you can't take completions away because of a nice catch, or negate them, or whatever you are trying to do. Plax dropped a pass earlier and Carter should have caught a pass late in the game that hit him in the numbers. We aren't crying about those because good catches and drops are a part of the game for every QB.

Eli is better than Bledsoe.
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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[quote="Number 10"]
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:roll:

The TD pass was in a good spot. And you can't take completions away because of a nice catch, or negate them, or whatever you are trying to do. Plax dropped a pass earlier and Carter should have caught a pass late in the game that hit him in the numbers. We aren't crying about those because good catches and drops are a part of the game for every QB.

Eli is better than Bledsoe.
And you prove my point. Well done.

Of course you can't take catches away, and of course this and of course that, but you have to admit that Eli was off for a lot of the night. Drops happen every game to every QB. Those two catches by Burress are two of the best that you will see ALL YEAR LONG, by anyone on any team. They are not something that you can count on happening, unlike drops. It's not a situation where it evens out because some bad passes are caught while some good passes are dropped. That is a flaw in logic. They were not "good catches", they were "mind boggling" catches. But take your scenario, and add the numbers from the drops and subtract the numbers from those two catches and my points still stand.

Of course, that is the only part of my post you responded to, because you couldn't refute anything else I said and yet >>>>>>>>>>>>>Manning is better than Bledsoe. I like where you're heads at.
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Old 09-12-2006, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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[quote="DMWSackMachine"]
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:roll:

The TD pass was in a good spot. And you can't take completions away because of a nice catch, or negate them, or whatever you are trying to do. Plax dropped a pass earlier and Carter should have caught a pass late in the game that hit him in the numbers. We aren't crying about those because good catches and drops are a part of the game for every QB.

Eli is better than Bledsoe.
And you prove my point. Well done.

Of course you can't take catches away, and of course this and of course that, but you have to admit that Eli was off for a lot of the night. Drops happen every game to every QB. Those two catches by Burress are two of the best that you will see ALL YEAR LONG, by anyone on any team. They are not something that you can count on happening, unlike drops. It's not a situation where it evens out because some bad passes are caught while some good passes are dropped. That is a flaw in logic. They were not "good catches", they were "mind boggling" catches. But take your scenario, and add the numbers from the drops and subtract the numbers from those two catches and my points still stand.

Of course, that is the only part of my post you responded to, because you couldn't refute anything else I said and yet >>>>>>>>>>>>>Manning is better than Bledsoe. I like where you're heads at.
The TD catch by Burress was not mind boggling. Get that out of your head. And Eli completes 60% of his passes finally, yet he still gets denied the respect, anyone suprised? The Eli hater in you is clouding your vision so much that it isn't even funny. Is he a finished product? No. Does he still have accuracy issues? Yes. But that does not mean he is worse than Drew Bledsoe.
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Old 09-13-2006, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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And you prove my point. Well done.

Of course you can't take catches away, and of course this and of course that, but you have to admit that Eli was off for a lot of the night. Drops happen every game to every QB. Those two catches by Burress are two of the best that you will see ALL YEAR LONG, by anyone on any team. They are not something that you can count on happening, unlike drops. It's not a situation where it evens out because some bad passes are caught while some good passes are dropped. That is a flaw in logic. They were not "good catches", they were "mind boggling" catches. But take your scenario, and add the numbers from the drops and subtract the numbers from those two catches and my points still stand.

Of course, that is the only part of my post you responded to, because you couldn't refute anything else I said and yet >>>>>>>>>>>>>Manning is better than Bledsoe. I like where you're heads at.
The TD catch by Burress was not mind boggling. Get that out of your head. And Eli completes 60% of his passes finally, yet he still gets denied the respect, anyone suprised? The Eli hater in you is clouding your vision so much that it isn't even funny. Is he a finished product? No. Does he still have accuracy issues? Yes. But that does not mean he is worse than Drew Bledsoe.
Dude, a 6'5" reciever had to completely lay himself out just to get the tips of his fingers on that ball. There was no real chance that he was going to catch it on first impact, but rather the only hope was for him to get it up in the air and come down with it off the deflection. Combine that with the fact that it was a end-of-the-half situation in which you KNOW that the offensive team is going to be pushing the ball downfield, and yet the Colt's secondary somehow failed to get the safety over in time, and YES, it was a mind boggling catch. Don't down play it, it is a credit to Plaxico. Just because it takes away from your Eli worship doesn't mean it is a bad thing.

As for the "Eli hater" in me, you are a bit off base. I am actually a big Eli Manning fan, as I am a big Peyton Manning fan. I love good football, and I love to watch the game played the way it should be, without being adulterated by pretenders. Eli, at times, is a excellent model of the kind of play that I admire. He still has a long ways to go, but I see the ability there to be something great to watch.

However, New York fans have been waiting so long for a franchise type QB, that they are all over the place trying to annoint Eli before he's earned it. He is an above average QB right now, slightly. He could eventually be the best in the game, or close to it. Just not right now. Anyone with the slightest amount of objectivity can see that is the case. The only reason I would root against him is because he happens to be in the same division as my favorite team. But sh** happens. I can live with it.
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Old 09-13-2006, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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And you prove my point. Well done.

Of course you can't take catches away, and of course this and of course that, but you have to admit that Eli was off for a lot of the night. Drops happen every game to every QB. Those two catches by Burress are two of the best that you will see ALL YEAR LONG, by anyone on any team. They are not something that you can count on happening, unlike drops. It's not a situation where it evens out because some bad passes are caught while some good passes are dropped. That is a flaw in logic. They were not "good catches", they were "mind boggling" catches. But take your scenario, and add the numbers from the drops and subtract the numbers from those two catches and my points still stand.

Of course, that is the only part of my post you responded to, because you couldn't refute anything else I said and yet >>>>>>>>>>>>>Manning is better than Bledsoe. I like where you're heads at.
The TD catch by Burress was not mind boggling. Get that out of your head. And Eli completes 60% of his passes finally, yet he still gets denied the respect, anyone suprised? The Eli hater in you is clouding your vision so much that it isn't even funny. Is he a finished product? No. Does he still have accuracy issues? Yes. But that does not mean he is worse than Drew Bledsoe.
Dude, a 6'5" reciever had to completely lay himself out just to get the tips of his fingers on that ball. There was no real chance that he was going to catch it on first impact, but rather the only hope was for him to get it up in the air and come down with it off the deflection. Combine that with the fact that it was a end-of-the-half situation in which you KNOW that the offensive team is going to be pushing the ball downfield, and yet the Colt's secondary somehow failed to get the safety over in time, and YES, it was a mind boggling catch. Don't down play it, it is a credit to Plaxico. Just because it takes away from your Eli worship doesn't mean it is a bad thing.

As for the "Eli hater" in me, you are a bit off base. I am actually a big Eli Manning fan, as I am a big Peyton Manning fan. I love good football, and I love to watch the game played the way it should be, without being adulterated by pretenders. Eli, at times, is a excellent model of the kind of play that I admire. He still has a long ways to go, but I see the ability there to be something great to watch.

However, New York fans have been waiting so long for a franchise type QB, that they are all over the place trying to annoint Eli before he's earned it. He is an above average QB right now, slightly. He could eventually be the best in the game, or close to it. Just not right now. Anyone with the slightest amount of objectivity can see that is the case. The only reason I would root against him is because he happens to be in the same division as my favorite team. But sh** happens. I can live with it.
So let me get this straight...you take away from Eli Manning because he has Plaxico Burress making him look better and saving him, yet you refuse to do the same with Bledsoe and Owens? Interesting...

And if Eli's talent level around him is was much better than Bledsoe's last year like you state, why are you willing to debate that this year Bledsoe potentially has the best offense because of a one player addition? Obviously, that must mean you think highly of the other skill position players as well, so why take away from Eli for having skill position players but not do the same with Bledsoe?

Burress made 1 great catch, the other throw was spot on. He also dropped a catch. In fact, Eli had 4 dropped passes. So your argument is a wash, because for every badthrow/good catch you point out, I can point out the opposite. And Eli outperformed Peyton in that game, I don't get how he had a bad game. You also forgot to mention the fact that Bledsoe's TD pass to Owens was off too...he had to totally readjust his body to find the ball and turn around and make a spectactular catch. So if we go by the wouldve/couldve/shouldves theory, he shouldn't have gotten that TD pass to Owens because Owens saved him.

And how on earth can you compare Eli's game to Bledsoe's like that? Youre hiding facts. If you want to mention wouldve/couldve/shouldves, you forget to mention the fact that Bledsoe shouldve had 4 INTs, and if it wasn't for 2 dropped INTs he wouldve had 6. Slice that game anyway you want, we both know Bledsoe played atrocious regardless of the reason. And the theory still stands, when you overload blitz Bledsoe, he's done. The Jags proved it in the 2nd half of last week. When they sent 6 at Bledsoe he had no clue. Eli on the otherhand, can actually evade pressure and has good pocket awareness.

I think Bledsoe is a good qb. I think he will have success this year. But I also think that this year Eli will surpass him in terms of talent. Bledsoe peaked already, Eli continues to get better with each game. Yes, he still needs to refine his technique, but by week 8 he should be where we expect him to be. And already, while still learning, he is at the very least equal to Bledsoe. Bledsoe is a great passer for the most part, but his pocket awareness and mobility are atrocius. You gotta evaluate the whole package here, and when you do that, Eli is better. In fact, Im pretty sure if you can have Eli Manning the exact way he is right now or Drew Bledsoe on that same Dallas team, I think its quite obvious most Dallas fans will tell you they rather have Eli.

And no credible Giants fan will tell you Eli is the best in the league. We have our fair share of homers like everyone else, but most of us aren't that dumb. Eli can be top 10 this year, with potential to be higher.

EDIT: I made a bunch of typos in this, thats why I edited it so much.
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Old 09-13-2006, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I can't think of any argument that the Cowboys have anything but the worst offense in the division. Bledsoe is lucky if he's the third best QB in that division, I guess I'll give him being better than Brunell. They also have the worst of the four starting RB, and the worst of the four OL. Owens is the brightest spot on that offense, but top to bottom I'd take Redskin's WR corps. Like I mentioned, if the Cowboys win this division it's going to be because they have the division's best defense, not offense.
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Old 09-13-2006, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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And you prove my point. Well done.

Of course you can't take catches away, and of course this and of course that, but you have to admit that Eli was off for a lot of the night. Drops happen every game to every QB. Those two catches by Burress are two of the best that you will see ALL YEAR LONG, by anyone on any team. They are not something that you can count on happening, unlike drops. It's not a situation where it evens out because some bad passes are caught while some good passes are dropped. That is a flaw in logic. They were not "good catches", they were "mind boggling" catches. But take your scenario, and add the numbers from the drops and subtract the numbers from those two catches and my points still stand.

Of course, that is the only part of my post you responded to, because you couldn't refute anything else I said and yet >>>>>>>>>>>>>Manning is better than Bledsoe. I like where you're heads at.
The TD catch by Burress was not mind boggling. Get that out of your head. And Eli completes 60% of his passes finally, yet he still gets denied the respect, anyone suprised? The Eli hater in you is clouding your vision so much that it isn't even funny. Is he a finished product? No. Does he still have accuracy issues? Yes. But that does not mean he is worse than Drew Bledsoe.
Dude, a 6'5" reciever had to completely lay himself out just to get the tips of his fingers on that ball. There was no real chance that he was going to catch it on first impact, but rather the only hope was for him to get it up in the air and come down with it off the deflection. Combine that with the fact that it was a end-of-the-half situation in which you KNOW that the offensive team is going to be pushing the ball downfield, and yet the Colt's secondary somehow failed to get the safety over in time, and YES, it was a mind boggling catch. Don't down play it, it is a credit to Plaxico. Just because it takes away from your Eli worship doesn't mean it is a bad thing.

As for the "Eli hater" in me, you are a bit off base. I am actually a big Eli Manning fan, as I am a big Peyton Manning fan. I love good football, and I love to watch the game played the way it should be, without being adulterated by pretenders. Eli, at times, is a excellent model of the kind of play that I admire. He still has a long ways to go, but I see the ability there to be something great to watch.

However, New York fans have been waiting so long for a franchise type QB, that they are all over the place trying to annoint Eli before he's earned it. He is an above average QB right now, slightly. He could eventually be the best in the game, or close to it. Just not right now. Anyone with the slightest amount of objectivity can see that is the case. The only reason I would root against him is because he happens to be in the same division as my favorite team. But sh** happens. I can live with it.
You are dead wrong about the TD catch. The first big gain reception was indeed an unreal catch that only a select few in the NFL could have caught...but the TD catch was a good throw. On the money? No. But Burress did not fully jump and his arms were not fully extended. Eli put it just out of the reach of Nick Harper, which is what you are supposed to do when throwing deep and up. But I understand your blinders can alter your vision while watching the replays.

And in regards to my/Giants views on Eli...Calling him a top 10 or top 12 QB in the NFL is not outrageous by any means and I for one always say Eli still has a ways to go. It his is THIRD year in the league and he has ONE full season as a starter under his belt, saying that he is a top notch QB would be stupid, and I feel you along with other NFC East fans are under the false impression that we think Eli is an elite QB right now. Talk to any level headed Giants fan on this board and you will see that we all still have present concerns about Eli. I for one do not think he wil ever be the top QB in this league like Brady or Peyton have been...I think Palmer will be better than Eli and even though he still has a lot to prove, I think Cutler has a shot at being better than Eli. I don't care about Eli being the head QB at the table, all I want is for him to be top 5ish and lead this team to a few Super Bowls, and I feel that he is capable of doing that in the future.

Just because I view him as a better QB than Drew Bledsoe does not mean I think he is the next big thing in the NFL because my opinion of Bledsoe is low. I simply think that he is an average at best QB that has a strong arm and is on the decline.
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Old 09-13-2006, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

So let me get this straight...you take away from Eli Manning because he has Plaxico Burress making him look better and saving him, yet you refuse to do the same with Bledsoe and Owens? Interesting...

And if Eli's talent level around him is was much better than Bledsoe's last year like you state, why are you willing to debate that this year Bledsoe potentially has the best offense because of a one player addition? Obviously, that must mean you think highly of the other skill position players as well, so why take away from Eli for having skill position players but not do the same with Bledsoe?

Burress made 1 great catch, the other throw was spot on. He also dropped a catch. In fact, Eli had 4 dropped passes. So your argument is a wash, because for every badthrow/good catch you point out, I can point out the opposite. And Eli outperformed Peyton in that game, I don't get how he had a bad game. You also forgot to mention the fact that Bledsoe's TD pass to Owens was off too...he had to totally readjust his body to find the ball and turn around and make a spectactular catch. So if we go by the wouldve/couldve/shouldves theory, he shouldn't have gotten that TD pass to Owens because Owens saved him.

And how on earth can you compare Eli's game to Bledsoe's like that? Youre hiding facts. If you want to mention wouldve/couldve/shouldves, you forget to mention the fact that Bledsoe shouldve had 4 INTs, and if it wasn't for 2 dropped INTs he wouldve had 6. Slice that game anyway you want, we both know Bledsoe played atrocious regardless of the reason. And the theory still stands, when you overload blitz Bledsoe, he's done. The Jags proved it in the 2nd half of last week. When they sent 6 at Bledsoe he had no clue. Eli on the otherhand, can actually evade pressure and has good pocket awareness.

I think Bledsoe is a good qb. I think he will have success this year. But I also think that this year Eli will surpass him in terms of talent. Bledsoe peaked already, Eli continues to get better with each game. Yes, he still needs to refine his technique, but by week 8 he should be where we expect him to be. And already, while still learning, he is at the very least equal to Bledsoe. Bledsoe is a great passer for the most part, but his pocket awareness and mobility are atrocius. You gotta evaluate the whole package here, and when you do that, Eli is better. In fact, Im pretty sure if you can have Eli Manning the exact way he is right now or Drew Bledsoe on that same Dallas team, I think its quite obvious most Dallas fans will tell you they rather have Eli.

And no credible Giants fan will tell you Eli is the best in the league. We have our fair share of homers like everyone else, but most of us aren't that dumb. Eli can be top 10 this year, with potential to be higher.

EDIT: I made a bunch of typos in this, thats why I edited it so much.
I'm a little disappointed in you, BBD. You took what I said quite a bit out of context to make it sound like I was presenting stupid arguments. Let me set this straight: Eli played far superior to Bledsoe in week 1. Period. In no way was I trying to tweak or mess with that. However, my point was that at his best (in the first quarter) Drew looked much, much better than Eli did at any point in the Colts game. He was nearly flawless. Now, for the rest of the game he stunk it up on a consistent basis, there is no arguing that fact. Yes, he could have thrown as many as 6 picks if the Jaguars made every play that they could have. True. What I am saying is that there was obviously something that happened out there. Aikman was talking about it during the telecast, all the local media are talking about it, Bledsoe even admitted to hurting his back before backing away from the statement to avoid looking like he was making excuses for himself. However, whatever the reason was, the bottom line is that he didn't look good. I understand that.

What I'm trying to point out is that Manning stats are very misleading. Please don't attempt to make it sound like either of those throws were good ones. You have one of the two or three biggest WRs in the game there, and he can barely get a couple fingers on a throw = bad pass. It's a credit to Plaxico that he made the catch, but definitely not to Eli.

Also, I addressed the "evening out" theory farther up the page, if you want to go look. Every QB has dropped passes in almost every game. That is something that is a regular occurence. NOT every QB has a 6'5" WR that makes fingertip-knock-into-the-air-dive-onto-the-ground type catches. So, no, they don't even out. You don't have one of those incredible plays for every dropped pass. The drops waaaaay outweigh the good ones. In this game, they didn't. Not even close.

Anyhow, if Giants fans refuse to acknowledge that accuracy concerns remain for Eli, then there is nothing to say but "watch the games", because it was evident to me that he still throws off his back foot quite a bit, that he doesn't always step into his throws, and that he floats the ball too much. These traits were all over during the game on Sunday night.

Now, don't get me wrong. He looked improved from last year. He did look good at times, but overall his stats would mislead you in evaluating his game. That's all I'm saying.

As for the Giants offense, by far the most impressive thing in that game was their ability to run right down the throats of the Colts. I was shocked at the regularity with which they ripped off long gainers. And Brandon Jacobs is a beast. He should be the mascot, as well as a player. Wow.

The passing game was not that impressive. It looked ok, for the most part, but not as explosive as you would expect. But the running game, if it continues to look like that, will be the difference for them this year. Of course, it's difficult to tell how much was the Giants being good and how much was the Colts being lightweights, but the point remains. It was impressive.
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Old 09-13-2006, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

So let me get this straight...you take away from Eli Manning because he has Plaxico Burress making him look better and saving him, yet you refuse to do the same with Bledsoe and Owens? Interesting...

And if Eli's talent level around him is was much better than Bledsoe's last year like you state, why are you willing to debate that this year Bledsoe potentially has the best offense because of a one player addition? Obviously, that must mean you think highly of the other skill position players as well, so why take away from Eli for having skill position players but not do the same with Bledsoe?

Burress made 1 great catch, the other throw was spot on. He also dropped a catch. In fact, Eli had 4 dropped passes. So your argument is a wash, because for every badthrow/good catch you point out, I can point out the opposite. And Eli outperformed Peyton in that game, I don't get how he had a bad game. You also forgot to mention the fact that Bledsoe's TD pass to Owens was off too...he had to totally readjust his body to find the ball and turn around and make a spectactular catch. So if we go by the wouldve/couldve/shouldves theory, he shouldn't have gotten that TD pass to Owens because Owens saved him.

And how on earth can you compare Eli's game to Bledsoe's like that? Youre hiding facts. If you want to mention wouldve/couldve/shouldves, you forget to mention the fact that Bledsoe shouldve had 4 INTs, and if it wasn't for 2 dropped INTs he wouldve had 6. Slice that game anyway you want, we both know Bledsoe played atrocious regardless of the reason. And the theory still stands, when you overload blitz Bledsoe, he's done. The Jags proved it in the 2nd half of last week. When they sent 6 at Bledsoe he had no clue. Eli on the otherhand, can actually evade pressure and has good pocket awareness.

I think Bledsoe is a good qb. I think he will have success this year. But I also think that this year Eli will surpass him in terms of talent. Bledsoe peaked already, Eli continues to get better with each game. Yes, he still needs to refine his technique, but by week 8 he should be where we expect him to be. And already, while still learning, he is at the very least equal to Bledsoe. Bledsoe is a great passer for the most part, but his pocket awareness and mobility are atrocius. You gotta evaluate the whole package here, and when you do that, Eli is better. In fact, Im pretty sure if you can have Eli Manning the exact way he is right now or Drew Bledsoe on that same Dallas team, I think its quite obvious most Dallas fans will tell you they rather have Eli.

And no credible Giants fan will tell you Eli is the best in the league. We have our fair share of homers like everyone else, but most of us aren't that dumb. Eli can be top 10 this year, with potential to be higher.

EDIT: I made a bunch of typos in this, thats why I edited it so much.
I'm a little disappointed in you, BBD. You took what I said quite a bit out of context to make it sound like I was presenting stupid arguments. Let me set this straight: Eli played far superior to Bledsoe in week 1. Period. In no way was I trying to tweak or mess with that. However, my point was that at his best (in the first quarter) Drew looked much, much better than Eli did at any point in the Colts game. He was nearly flawless. Now, for the rest of the game he stunk it up on a consistent basis, there is no arguing that fact. Yes, he could have thrown as many as 6 picks if the Jaguars made every play that they could have. True. What I am saying is that there was obviously something that happened out there. Aikman was talking about it during the telecast, all the local media are talking about it, Bledsoe even admitted to hurting his back before backing away from the statement to avoid looking like he was making excuses for himself. However, whatever the reason was, the bottom line is that he didn't look good. I understand that.

What I'm trying to point out is that Manning stats are very misleading. Please don't attempt to make it sound like either of those throws were good ones. You have one of the two or three biggest WRs in the game there, and he can barely get a couple fingers on a throw = bad pass. It's a credit to Plaxico that he made the catch, but definitely not to Eli.

Also, I addressed the "evening out" theory farther up the page, if you want to go look. Every QB has dropped passes in almost every game. That is something that is a regular occurence. NOT every QB has a 6'5" WR that makes fingertip-knock-into-the-air-dive-onto-the-ground type catches. So, no, they don't even out. You don't have one of those incredible plays for every dropped pass. The drops waaaaay outweigh the good ones. In this game, they didn't. Not even close.

Anyhow, if Giants fans refuse to acknowledge that accuracy concerns remain for Eli, then there is nothing to say but "watch the games", because it was evident to me that he still throws off his back foot quite a bit, that he doesn't always step into his throws, and that he floats the ball too much. These traits were all over during the game on Sunday night.

Now, don't get me wrong. He looked improved from last year. He did look good at times, but overall his stats would mislead you in evaluating his game. That's all I'm saying.

As for the Giants offense, by far the most impressive thing in that game was their ability to run right down the throats of the Colts. I was shocked at the regularity with which they ripped off long gainers. And Brandon Jacobs is a beast. He should be the mascot, as well as a player. Wow.

The passing game was not that impressive. It looked ok, for the most part, but not as explosive as you would expect. But the running game, if it continues to look like that, will be the difference for them this year. Of course, it's difficult to tell how much was the Giants being good and how much was the Colts being lightweights, but the point remains. It was impressive.
Stop. Every QB has WRs that make outstanding catches. You are amazing.
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Old 10-17-2006, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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I'd like to refresh some memories.



Quote:
Originally Posted by draftguru151
Eli being better than Daunte is laughable. No one could have played well in that situation in Minnesota last season. Eli is a good player and is on his way up, but he isn't there yet. I don't see him in that top 10 area, more in that 11-15 area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
I find it pointless to give you indivisual explanations on each player. Just look at what they have done in the league and there is no way you can rank Eli higher than any of these guys.

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Carson Palmer
4. Matt Hasselback
5. Trent Green
6. Donavan Mcnabb
7. Jake Delhomme
8. Drew Bledsoe
9. Kurt Warner
10. Daunte Culpepper

Look at every Qb here, all have exceptional completion percentages and they all read defenses with ease. I dont know how you can make an argument that Eli is better than any of these Qbs right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
Well by "experts" I meant some of the posters on here, just check out the Eli vs Peyton thread or whatever it's called. The point I'm trying to make is that he is indeed overrated, he hasnt done anything to deserve such praise. He shouldnt be mentioned in the top tier of QB's yet, although he is, even with credible sports analysts. As for the whole Bledsoe/Eli debate, the only thing I believe Eli has on Bledsoe is a little more mobility, that is it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by draftguru151
Next season I will take Bledsoe over Eli and day of the week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
I'm sick of hearing that the Cowboys line is so bad. They have a completly different O-Line this year, there is no way of knowing if they will be lousy as of right now. Former Pro Bowler Flozell Adams is now healthy, we have a new LG, we have a new C, Marco Rivera is at 100%, and we have a new RT.

As for Bledsoe, he may not be mobile but, he is the most accurate QB in the NFC East, yes even better than Mcnabb. T.O. and the new double TE offense is only going to give him more time and is only going to help him.

Lets do a comparison. (I'll exclude Mcnabb because, he didnt play everygame last year)

2005 stats

Bledsoe 300-499 60.1% 3639 yards 23 Tds 17 INTS

Brunell 262-454 57.7% 3050 yards 23 Tds 10 INTS

Manning 294-557 52.8% 3762 yards 24 Tds 17 INTS

All three put up similar numbers last year but, what stands out is bledsoe's completeion percentage. This is without T.O. what do you think he will do with him?

My QB rankings:

1. Mcnabb
2. Bledsoe
3. Brunell
4. Manning (I'm telling you if he didnt have the 6'5 Plax, he wouldnt have thrown for over 50%.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
Worst QB? How is Eli or Brunell better than Bledsoe? please explain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Redskins have best OL, best WR's, best RB and brunell is 2nd best QB. its the redskins
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
I dont expect Eli to be any better this year, in fact I think he will be the Giants downfall. From what I've seen in preseason, Eli doesnt look to be anymore accurate than he was last season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by draftguru151
Redskins and I don't think it is close. They have possible the best OL in the league, and the best OT duo if nothing else. Brunell had a pro bowl caliber season last year. The have a good trio of WRs in Moss, Randle El, and Lloyd. Cooley is a great TE, and Sellers is a very good FB. Oh yea, and I forgot they have a top 5 RB (if not higher) in Clinton Portis.
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Old 10-17-2006, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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I'd like to refresh some memories.



Quote:
Originally Posted by draftguru151
Eli being better than Daunte is laughable. No one could have played well in that situation in Minnesota last season. Eli is a good player and is on his way up, but he isn't there yet. I don't see him in that top 10 area, more in that 11-15 area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
I find it pointless to give you indivisual explanations on each player. Just look at what they have done in the league and there is no way you can rank Eli higher than any of these guys.

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Carson Palmer
4. Matt Hasselback
5. Trent Green
6. Donavan Mcnabb
7. Jake Delhomme
8. Drew Bledsoe
9. Kurt Warner
10. Daunte Culpepper

Look at every Qb here, all have exceptional completion percentages and they all read defenses with ease. I dont know how you can make an argument that Eli is better than any of these Qbs right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
Well by "experts" I meant some of the posters on here, just check out the Eli vs Peyton thread or whatever it's called. The point I'm trying to make is that he is indeed overrated, he hasnt done anything to deserve such praise. He shouldnt be mentioned in the top tier of QB's yet, although he is, even with credible sports analysts. As for the whole Bledsoe/Eli debate, the only thing I believe Eli has on Bledsoe is a little more mobility, that is it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by draftguru151
Next season I will take Bledsoe over Eli and day of the week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
I'm sick of hearing that the Cowboys line is so bad. They have a completly different O-Line this year, there is no way of knowing if they will be lousy as of right now. Former Pro Bowler Flozell Adams is now healthy, we have a new LG, we have a new C, Marco Rivera is at 100%, and we have a new RT.

As for Bledsoe, he may not be mobile but, he is the most accurate QB in the NFC East, yes even better than Mcnabb. T.O. and the new double TE offense is only going to give him more time and is only going to help him.

Lets do a comparison. (I'll exclude Mcnabb because, he didnt play everygame last year)

2005 stats

Bledsoe 300-499 60.1% 3639 yards 23 Tds 17 INTS

Brunell 262-454 57.7% 3050 yards 23 Tds 10 INTS

Manning 294-557 52.8% 3762 yards 24 Tds 17 INTS

All three put up similar numbers last year but, what stands out is bledsoe's completeion percentage. This is without T.O. what do you think he will do with him?

My QB rankings:

1. Mcnabb
2. Bledsoe
3. Brunell
4. Manning (I'm telling you if he didnt have the 6'5 Plax, he wouldnt have thrown for over 50%.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
Worst QB? How is Eli or Brunell better than Bledsoe? please explain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Redskins have best OL, best WR's, best RB and brunell is 2nd best QB. its the redskins
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
I dont expect Eli to be any better this year, in fact I think he will be the Giants downfall. From what I've seen in preseason, Eli doesnt look to be anymore accurate than he was last season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by draftguru151
Redskins and I don't think it is close. They have possible the best OL in the league, and the best OT duo if nothing else. Brunell had a pro bowl caliber season last year. The have a good trio of WRs in Moss, Randle El, and Lloyd. Cooley is a great TE, and Sellers is a very good FB. Oh yea, and I forgot they have a top 5 RB (if not higher) in Clinton Portis.

These are absolutely golden.
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Old 10-17-2006, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Read one post up for some eyebrow raisers.
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Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
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Old 10-17-2006, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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I like MOTH, cause he knows movies, but those comments about Eli/Drew are crazy homerific.
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Old 10-17-2006, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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I like MOTH, cause he knows movies, but those comments about Eli/Drew are crazy homerific.
And the counter argument from most Cowboys fans is...."you guys are such homers when you talk about Eli"
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Old 10-17-2006, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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Someone should just make a Giants homer thread. It would save a lot of space and time.
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Old 10-17-2006, 04:10 PM    (permalink
Number 10
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Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
Someone should just make a Giants homer thread. It would save a lot of space and time.
Would you consider this a "homer" thread?
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Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
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These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
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Old 10-17-2006, 04:19 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Draftguru is my boy, so he gets a pass, especially since the NFC East isn't his personal division so he doesn't know it as well as we do.

But MOTH GOT OWNED....oh man, that was "uber pwnage", lol.

I see Number 10 was keeping this thread in his backpocket for awhile now. You shouldve saved it for a little later, like after the Giants/Cowboys game, that wouldve been the perfect time to whip this thread out.
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Old 10-17-2006, 04:21 PM    (permalink
Number 10
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Number 10 is a cocksman.Number 10 is a cocksman.Number 10 is a cocksman.Number 10 is a cocksman.Number 10 is a cocksman.
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
Draftguru is my boy, so he gets a pass, especially since the NFC East isn't his personal division so he doesn't know it as well as we do.

But MOTH GOT OWNED....oh man, that was "uber pwnage", lol.

I see Number 10 was keeping this thread in his backpocket for awhile now. You shouldve saved it for a little later, like after the Giants/Cowboys game, that wouldve been the perfect time to whip this thread out.
Couldn't resist the urge and I want him to come out and say Bledsoe is still better. That is if he has the balls to post in this thread, because I know he'll be reading it.
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Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
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Originally Posted by Vikes99ej View Post
These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
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Old 10-17-2006, 04:21 PM    (permalink
 
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Well it appears I was dead wrong in voting for the Redskins and predicting them to be in the Superbowl
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Old 10-17-2006, 04:25 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Well it appears I was dead wrong in voting for the Redskins and predicting them to be in the Superbowl
You get respect for admitting you were wrong. Not many are willing to do that.
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