MMA Discussion Thread - SPOILERS!

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Originally Posted by Charm City Byrdgang

Get the **** out of here with that noise, Anderson Silva just toyed with Thales Leites the way I toy with my nephew. He just San Antonio Spur-ed him, this fight should not effect his ranking in the least bit.

....I saw Anderson Silva throw an occasional leg kick as Leites flopped around like a fish. Not sure what you saw.

[ccB]

Originally Posted by Tampa 2 4 life

....I saw Anderson Silva throw an occasional leg kick as Leites flopped around like a fish. Not sure what you saw.

Yes, an occasional leg kick made Thales Leites look the way he did at the end of the fight. Excitement, and recklessness does not effect the rankings, was it the best fight? No. Was he absolutely dominant? Yes.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Charm City Byrdgang

Yes, an occasional leg kick made Thales Leites look the way he did at the end of the fight. Excitement, and recklessness does not effect the rankings, was it the best fight? No. Was he absolutely dominant? Yes.

I'm surprised Leites didn't tear an ACL or MCL with all that punishment on his knee.

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Originally Posted by Charm City Byrdgang

Yes, an occasional leg kick made Thales Leites look the way he did at the end of the fight. Excitement, and recklessness does not effect the rankings, was it the best fight? No. Was he absolutely dominant? Yes.

With Cote, you had the threat of a KO if Silva engaged, so I really didn't mind the way that fight went. With Leites I was pretty much figuring for Leites to sell out for the takedown and try to sub, and when he got stuffed for Silva to at least show some cursory aggression to force engagement(a la the chonan fight), but he was just happy to sit back and put it on cruise control.

In my opinion, Dominance SHOULD be accounted for when you talk about pound for pound rankings, and after 2 unimpressive performances in a row and the wins by GSP and Fedor, Silva is now 3rd on my personal rankings.

[ccB]

Originally Posted by Cicero

I'm surprised Leites didn't tear an ACL or MCL with all that punishment on his knee.

Yeah, those kicks made me cringe, knees aren't supposed to be smashed in that direction.

[jayceheathman]

Thiago Alves is going to beat GSP and go on to fight Anderson Silva! :)

[ccB]

Originally Posted by Tampa 2 4 life

With Cote, you had the threat of a KO if Silva engaged, so I really didn't mind the way that fight went. With Leites I was pretty much figuring for Leites to sell out for the takedown and try to sub, and when he got stuffed for Silva to at least show some cursory aggression to force engagement(a la the chonan fight), but he was just happy to sit back and put it on cruise control.

In my opinion, Dominance SHOULD be accounted for when you talk about pound for pound rankings, and after 2 unimpressive performances in a row and the wins by GSP and Fedor, Silva is now 3rd on my personal rankings.

I am confused as to what your definition of dominance is, systematically picking an opponent apart, to the point where they have absolutely nothing left, without taking ANY damage, is somehow not dominance?

I am not saying this fight was good by any means, but to say Anderson Silva wasn't dominating and deserves to be moved down in the rankings is silly.

[JF4]

**** ****** streams and **** ****** residence internet connection.

Shogun's back!!!

That is all.

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Originally Posted by Charm City Byrdgang

I am confused as to what your definition of dominance is, systematically picking an opponent apart, to the point where they have absolutely nothing left, without taking ANY damage, is somehow not dominance?

I am not saying this fight was good by any means, but to say Anderson Silva was dominating and deserves to be moved down in the rankings is silly.

Well, not making any attempt to finish the fight for one. At least Machida utilizes faints and jabs to bait his opponents into attacking(Which is why I love him) but silva didn't even do that. Are you honestly saying you'd pick Silva over GSP at this point? It's like he had Tim Sylvia disease and just avoided exchanges like the plague.

[vatech=accdomination]

Originally Posted by JF4

**** ****** streams and **** ****** residence internet connection.

Shogun's back!!!

That is all.

we must have been on the same places. I would not say shogun is back yet, it was pretty much who can use the other to stay above water.

[Ravens1991]

ya I wouldnt say Shogun is back. he improved but Liddell is finished.

[E-Man]

Alot of people will talk about how Anderson doesn't deserve to be #1 p4p because of this fight. If we're going to go that route then GSP lost to Serra so he's out. Fedor has fought some cans recently blah blah blah. one fight doesn't make a fighter ya know. Besides it's Anderson's style to counter. If his opponent isn't engaging then you get a boring fight. If he was the type of fighter to go balls to the wall to get a KO he wouldn't be where he is. Smart fighters know that it's better to take a boring win than to go crazy looking to excite the fans. GSP and Fedor would've done the same thing if they fought an opponent that just flopped around like Leites did tonight. Hell remember Arlovski vs. Fedor?Arlovski was winning on points, and had a nice gameplan going until he decided to launch his ass in the air.lol Fedor would never get caught dead doing something stupid like that, and that's why Fedor has never gotten "caught." Anderson just played things smart tonight like a top fighter should.

Did anybody else get the sense that something was troubling Anderson tonight? He looked like he was on the verge of tears when they announced him. Hopefully nothing serious has happened in his life.

Oh and for the record I'm not too into P4P rankings, but if I had to Silva's still numero uno, GSP second, and Fedor third. All three guys are smart fighters that are complete. Silva keeps his title, because he just broke a serious record. Many great fighters come into the UFC and go on streaks, but nobody has done what Anderson has now. In the UFC the competition is always dangerous. Leites would beat most guys at 185 based on his ground game alone. If he was in another org he'd take the title. Anderson is doing something legendary right now.

[E-Man]

Originally Posted by Ravens1991

ya I wouldnt say Shogun is back. he improved but Liddell is finished.

Time will tell on that one. Honestly I used to be impressed with Shogun back in my newbie MMA days, but he really is a guy with decent tools that would've gotten exposed at some point in time. His striking used to be sloppy, and his ground game was good enough to sub people with no sub defense. Tonight he was more crisp, and light on his feet. I still saw some holes that could get him KOed, but he might make some noise now.He'd get owned by the top 4 at 205, but he can take out the likes of Luiz Cane, Thiago Silva, and Jardine(chin too suspect). I'd say have him fight Cane and keep him away from cans to see where he goes. Cane has a good chin and some decent strikes. He should make a decent match up for Shogun.

[ccB]

Originally Posted by Tampa 2 4 life

Well, not making any attempt to finish the fight for one. At least Machida utilizes faints and jabs to bait his opponents into attacking(Which is why I love him) but silva didn't even do that. Are you honestly saying you'd pick Silva over GSP at this point? It's like he had Tim Sylvia disease and just avoided exchanges like the plague.

I am saying, this fight shouldn't effect P4P ratings, Anderson Silva dominated Leites, he took absolutely no damage, and this was his 9th win in a row without even being close to being stopped. This to me was the same thing as a 1-0 baseball game, or how the San Antonio Spurs play in basketball, beat your team without the flair and flash of dunks, alley oops and no look passes. We are talking about Anderson Silva, the guy turns in one Unanimous Decision and people are calling for his heads. When you fight a world class BJJ guy all it takes is one slip up and you're done, Silva fought cautious, too cautious at the end but I suppose winning means more to him than putting himself in danger to please the fans. Look at GSP v Serra, GSP was reckless and got KO-ed by a guy he shouldn't of been KO-ed by and his career was set back because of it.

Should Fedor be moved down rankings since he was getting dominated in the stand up game until AA got caught on a dumb move? No, because he won the fight. Should GSP have been dropped for not finishing Jon Fitch? No because he won the fight.

Like I said, this wasn't the most exciting fight, and I was irritated by some of Silva's in ring antics but this fight doesn't make me think less of him as a fighter, and doesn't change his position in my rankings.

[sdpads24]

To be at the top of the p4p rankings you need to knock people out. Great Striker couldn’t do damage against a bad striker . . . enough said.

[Cicero]

As a boxing fan, there really isn't anything boring to me about watching a bout like that. Anderson was a flawless tactician tonight.

[sdpads24]

Originally Posted by Cicero

As a boxing fan, there really isn't anything boring to me about watching a bout like that. Anderson was a flawless tactician tonight.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but hardly any punches landed. They were almost standing with each other waiting for the other person to so something. I don't know how that can be interpreted as anything besides boring

[ccB]

Originally Posted by sdpads24

To be at the top of the p4p rankings you need to knock people out. Great Striker couldn’t do damage against a bad striker . . . enough said.

So is that what it takes to be P4P best? Damn, poor Demian Maia is never going to get on the P4P list then. Yeah and scrap all those other KO's and TKO's Anderson dished out, this one decision negates all those. Thales Leites sure looked 100% after that fight, no damage taken indeed.

/sarcasm

[ccB]

Originally Posted by Cicero

As a boxing fan, there really isn't anything boring to me about watching a bout like that. Anderson was a flawless tactician tonight.

Nah bro it's all about standing toe to toe and swinging looping hooks until one guy falls into a pool of his own blood!!

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Originally Posted by Charm City Byrdgang

Nah bro it's all about standing toe to toe and swinging looping hooks until one guy falls into a pool of his own blood!!

That's not the problem, The problem is Anderson having Leites pretty much dead to rights by the 3rd round and then just showing off dance moves the last 2 rounds.

[E-Man]

Oh yeah Matt Wiman got robbed. It was a great fight, but he dictated the fight more IMO. Stout was good as well, but Wiman did more damage.

[sdpads24]

Originally Posted by Charm City Byrdgang

So is that what it takes to be P4P best? Damn, poor Demian Maia is never going to get on the P4P list then. Yeah and scrap all those other KO's and TKO's Anderson dished out, this one decision negates all those. Thales Leites sure looked 100% after that fight, no damage taken indeed.

/sarcasm

So your gonna base your P4P ranking from what a fighter has done in the past? If it were GSP in the cage tonight against Silva, GSP wins it easily.

[jared]

Two things to preface this post:
1) A. Silva is a fantastic fighter
2) Thales Leites had no business challenging for the title.

That fight tonight was weak sauce. It most certainly was not a "dominant" performance by Silva. I think Silva threw about 8 punches in 5 rounds, that is inactivity. Dominance is when you actually achieve something. At no point did Leites ever look to be in serious trouble. Simply frustrating your opponent's floppy takedowns does not qualify as dominance. I will criticize Leites for coming in with half-assed guard pulling as his only hail mary strategy. However, Silva is 7x the stand-up fighter that he is. The fact that he made absolutely no attempt to engage Leites other than some funky knee kicks when 98% of the fight took place standing up is inexcusable. Leites is a BJJ guy. Leites constantly pulling guard is like saying "waaahh, please take the fight exactly where I'm most comfortable or else I'm not gonna play with you". Silva is a counterstriker. He sat back and did the exact same thing: waiting for Leites to play into HIS strengths without leaving his comfort zone for a second. He mounted virtually no offense whatsoever even though he could and should have kicked Leites' head into the stratosphere by the 2nd round. Frankly Silva's BJJ is probably almost as good if not equal to Leites'. His striking is on another plane entirely. This is not the mark of a dominant P4P fighter in my eyes.

Wasn't this the same Anderson Silva that was supposedly SOooo pissed after the fan backlash from his awkward Cote fight? What a joke. He did the exact same thing: some hotdogging and tentative strikes with no attempt to mount an offensive at all.

[ccB]

Originally Posted by sdpads24

So your gonna base your P4P ranking from what a fighter has done in the past? If it were GSP in the cage tonight against Silva, GSP wins it easily.

Of course you base P4P rankings off previous fights, WTF kind of question is that? What else would you base it on? They don't rank people one a one fight by one fight basis.

On the topic of GSP beating Silva, I love those who bust out those crystal balls that predict the future, why even watch the fights if you know the outcomes before they happen?

[E-Man]

Originally Posted by Cicero

As a boxing fan, there really isn't anything boring to me about watching a bout like that. Anderson was a flawless tactician tonight.

Good viewpoint. How many great boxing fights go to decision? We're just too spoiled with Anderson putting guys away early. He did a great job of defending the takedown(something detractors say he's terrible at), and he nullified a guy who is better than him on the ground. Leites is a jiu-jitsu champ, and Silva kept him from doing damage on the ground better than most. He was just smart enough to know that you don't play into an opponent's strengths when you have him beat in another area. Plus Leites took some serious shots on the ground. He's got a good chin. It just sucks that that's all he had. Leites will probably fight Goran Reljic next, sub him, and make some people get over this atrocity of a performance.