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Old 10-16-2006, 12:48 PM    (permalink
eacantdraft
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Originally Posted by snortie
Nice to see, Ben shutting all you haters up. Funny how you all want to be the first to make mad monkey love to Eli and want to just make up excuses for Bens success in his young career. Just goes to show, Ben can lead a team, wether you want to admit it or not. Now of course, 1 game doesn't mean he won't make mistakes this season, but to call for his benching, and say he is overrated is just plain stupid. He is just as valuable to his team, as any other qb in the league.
PLEASE. He went 16-19 and had a good game. You know why? BECAUSE HE THREW IT 19 TIMES...thats why. If anything, he's proven our point about him being a game manager. The diapers came back on yesterday, and he plays well. Do you honestly think Charlie Batch couldn't make the same throws yesterday? I saw the whole game, Ben's first read was open every time he threw the ball. And they weren't just open, they were ridiculously open, like there wasn't a defender within 15 yards of them. Give me a break. Ben will shut us up when he WINS a game with 30+ throws. Let's see him do that. Gradkowski couldve won you yesterday's game. 19 throws is a joke.
He doesn't have to throw it more than that. He brings them to the lead and then the defense does the rest. Seriously are that big of a hater? Or are you just not very smart? Maybe if your team could actually hold a lead year after year, you might not have to throw the ball 30+ times a game. Also, if you lost Barber, there is no way Eli could lead that team. Say what you will, but you really ought to look into the game, not your heart.
1.Read back at all the comments Ive said in this thread. You'll see that Ive defended Ben against all the "bench him now" talk.

2. No one with a brain is saying that he stinks. We're saying that he is a game manager. He is not on the same level as Eli or Rivers because he has proven throughout his career that when you need him to carry the offense, he fails. Now prior to the past 2 games, Ive said Ben is still better than Rivers at the moment. But Ive now changed my tune after seeing Rivers put up great games 2 time in a row throwing for 35+ times. Thats 2 more games than Ben his whole 3 year career. Now, can Ben win games? Of course. Can he lead the Steelers? Yes he can. But can he lead a team with his arm? No, he can't. Not yet at least. All this talk about him being a top 10 qb in the league prior to the season was inaccurate. When you say he shut us up, you are wrong. All he did was manage the game to a victory, which is what we've been trying to say this whole time. Before he can shut any "haters" up, we need to see him carry the offense. Not throw 19 balls to his first read off PA pass. Thats not leading the team. Thats managing it.
I have yet to see a Manning lead his team when it really counts. The playoffs. The family is full of chokers.
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Old 10-16-2006, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by snortie
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Originally Posted by snortie
Nice to see, Ben shutting all you haters up. Funny how you all want to be the first to make mad monkey love to Eli and want to just make up excuses for Bens success in his young career. Just goes to show, Ben can lead a team, wether you want to admit it or not. Now of course, 1 game doesn't mean he won't make mistakes this season, but to call for his benching, and say he is overrated is just plain stupid. He is just as valuable to his team, as any other qb in the league.
PLEASE. He went 16-19 and had a good game. You know why? BECAUSE HE THREW IT 19 TIMES...thats why. If anything, he's proven our point about him being a game manager. The diapers came back on yesterday, and he plays well. Do you honestly think Charlie Batch couldn't make the same throws yesterday? I saw the whole game, Ben's first read was open every time he threw the ball. And they weren't just open, they were ridiculously open, like there wasn't a defender within 15 yards of them. Give me a break. Ben will shut us up when he WINS a game with 30+ throws. Let's see him do that. Gradkowski couldve won you yesterday's game. 19 throws is a joke.
He doesn't have to throw it more than that. He brings them to the lead and then the defense does the rest. Seriously are that big of a hater? Or are you just not very smart? Maybe if your team could actually hold a lead year after year, you might not have to throw the ball 30+ times a game. Also, if you lost Barber, there is no way Eli could lead that team. Say what you will, but you really ought to look into the game, not your heart.
1.Read back at all the comments Ive said in this thread. You'll see that Ive defended Ben against all the "bench him now" talk.

2. No one with a brain is saying that he stinks. We're saying that he is a game manager. He is not on the same level as Eli or Rivers because he has proven throughout his career that when you need him to carry the offense, he fails. Now prior to the past 2 games, Ive said Ben is still better than Rivers at the moment. But Ive now changed my tune after seeing Rivers put up great games 2 time in a row throwing for 35+ times. Thats 2 more games than Ben his whole 3 year career. Now, can Ben win games? Of course. Can he lead the Steelers? Yes he can. But can he lead a team with his arm? No, he can't. Not yet at least. All this talk about him being a top 10 qb in the league prior to the season was inaccurate. When you say he shut us up, you are wrong. All he did was manage the game to a victory, which is what we've been trying to say this whole time. Before he can shut any "haters" up, we need to see him carry the offense. Not throw 19 balls to his first read off PA pass. Thats not leading the team. Thats managing it.
I have yet to see a Manning lead his team when it really counts. The playoffs. The family is full of chokers.
You look down on Eli because of that? Let me ask you this, where do you rank Dan Marino as an NFL QB?

You are trashing Eli because he did not play well in his first ever playoff game against one of the hottest teams in the NFL at that point. Tell Eagles fans, tell Broncos fans that he can't lead his team when it counts. a QB can only do so much when it comes to wins and losses.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by snortie
Nice to see, Ben shutting all you haters up. Funny how you all want to be the first to make mad monkey love to Eli and want to just make up excuses for Bens success in his young career. Just goes to show, Ben can lead a team, wether you want to admit it or not. Now of course, 1 game doesn't mean he won't make mistakes this season, but to call for his benching, and say he is overrated is just plain stupid. He is just as valuable to his team, as any other qb in the league.
PLEASE. He went 16-19 and had a good game. You know why? BECAUSE HE THREW IT 19 TIMES...thats why. If anything, he's proven our point about him being a game manager. The diapers came back on yesterday, and he plays well. Do you honestly think Charlie Batch couldn't make the same throws yesterday? I saw the whole game, Ben's first read was open every time he threw the ball. And they weren't just open, they were ridiculously open, like there wasn't a defender within 15 yards of them. Give me a break. Ben will shut us up when he WINS a game with 30+ throws. Let's see him do that. Gradkowski couldve won you yesterday's game. 19 throws is a joke.
He doesn't have to throw it more than that. He brings them to the lead and then the defense does the rest. Seriously are that big of a hater? Or are you just not very smart? Maybe if your team could actually hold a lead year after year, you might not have to throw the ball 30+ times a game. Also, if you lost Barber, there is no way Eli could lead that team. Say what you will, but you really ought to look into the game, not your heart.
1.Read back at all the comments Ive said in this thread. You'll see that Ive defended Ben against all the "bench him now" talk.

2. No one with a brain is saying that he stinks. We're saying that he is a game manager. He is not on the same level as Eli or Rivers because he has proven throughout his career that when you need him to carry the offense, he fails. Now prior to the past 2 games, Ive said Ben is still better than Rivers at the moment. But Ive now changed my tune after seeing Rivers put up great games 2 time in a row throwing for 35+ times. Thats 2 more games than Ben his whole 3 year career. Now, can Ben win games? Of course. Can he lead the Steelers? Yes he can. But can he lead a team with his arm? No, he can't. Not yet at least. All this talk about him being a top 10 qb in the league prior to the season was inaccurate. When you say he shut us up, you are wrong. All he did was manage the game to a victory, which is what we've been trying to say this whole time. Before he can shut any "haters" up, we need to see him carry the offense. Not throw 19 balls to his first read off PA pass. Thats not leading the team. Thats managing it.
I have yet to see a Manning lead his team when it really counts. The playoffs. The family is full of chokers.
You look down on Eli because of that? Let me ask you this, where do you rank Dan Marino as an NFL QB?

You are trashing Eli because he did not play well in his first ever playoff game against one of the hottest teams in the NFL at that point. Tell Eagles fans, tell Broncos fans that he can't lead his team when it counts. a QB can only do so much when it comes to wins and losses.
Its also funny how 90% of all NFL qbs play bad in their first ever playoff game...but Eli is the only one who gets knocked for it. He has so many haters its not even funny.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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This thread now officially reminds me of Dallas fans trying to prove to themselves that Demarcus Ware is better than Merriman. Ware and Eli are both very good players, but Rivers and Merriman have looked absolutely dominant from the minute they started seeing the field.

Rivers is only 5 games in and he looks like a pro bowler; what is going to happen when he has some real experience? Also anyone complaining about his schedule is going to have to wait a year, because except for Seattle, Cincy, and Denver every game we have left on the schedule the Chargers should be favored.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Ben hasn't had better receivers than Eli since his rookie year. And are you actually claiming that Vick's numbers are as good as Ben's? Well besides having a 25 point better passer rating, Ben also competed 7% more of his passes for 2.7 more ypa. Ben also had more tds and less INTs with less attempts. The only reason the yardage numbers look similar is because Ben was hurt much of the year.
A) Vick was also hurt for a lot of the year.

B) Vick had no one catching the ball. He also had no offensive line. He also didn't have the defense Ben had.

C) Vick rushed for TD's where Ben got to throw them. Vick still had more TD's.

D) ... you mention less attempts to make INT's and TD's seem better, but not his passer rating, completion percentage, and YPA? Knowing that the more you throw it, those will probably go down? ESPECIALLY in Ben's case.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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This thread now officially reminds me of Dallas fans trying to prove to themselves that Demarcus Ware is better than Merriman. Ware and Eli are both very good players, but Rivers and Merriman have looked absolutely dominant from the minute they started seeing the field.

Rivers is only 5 games in and he looks like a pro bowler; what is going to happen when he has some real experience? Also anyone complaining about his schedule is going to have to wait a year, because except for Seattle, Cincy, and Denver every game we have left on the schedule the Chargers should be favored.
Hardly. He looks solid, but DEFINITELY not like a pro bowler. Homer much?
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
This thread now officially reminds me of Dallas fans trying to prove to themselves that Demarcus Ware is better than Merriman. Ware and Eli are both very good players, but Rivers and Merriman have looked absolutely dominant from the minute they started seeing the field.

Rivers is only 5 games in and he looks like a pro bowler; what is going to happen when he has some real experience? Also anyone complaining about his schedule is going to have to wait a year, because except for Seattle, Cincy, and Denver every game we have left on the schedule the Chargers should be favored.
Says the Chargers fan.

Rivers looking like a PBer after 5 games? Um...no. Great? Yes. PBer, not yet. Just wait until teams get more game tape on him, you'll see the dropoff, its inevitable.

And also, DeMarcus is just as nasty if not better than Merriman. He is better against the run and can drop into coverage better. Merriman is the better pass rusher right now, but he also benefits from a more blitz heavy scheme, whereas Ware does not.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Chances? He had less than 2 seconds to let it go. The first drive, he has time, result is 7 points. Until the 4th he doesn't have time, in the 4th he does and he comes back. Also don't forget the costly penalties that kept bringing the offense backwards everytime they gathered momentum. Eli isn't the only one on that offense, other guys gotta do their job too.
You said that Eli was the man that carries the offense. The truth is that Eli still had chances to make plays in that came. You can't blame the offensive line entirely. Great Qb's are able to handle the pressure and make plays out of it.

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So Eli plays defense now? Even with those picks, if the defense limits them to field goals, and actually stopped the Hawks, Eli wouldn't have to throw every play. And Seattle's second team came in the beginning of the 4th. After 2 TDs, the starters came back and Eli faced blitzes etc. He still couldn't be stopped.
Oh, so the Giant's defense threw those interceptions? And the fourth quarter didn't matter because the game was already over. I've stated that many times.

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Eli is known as a 2nd half qb throughout his career. So now, you say he only played well in this game because of Tiki. Against Philly, he got lucky. Against Seattle, he padded his stats. Against Washington, you haven't provided an excuse yet but Im sure you can come up with something...but the point is, you have an excuse to discredit him every game. Thats not hating? Ask anyone who watches our games consistently and they'll tell you we'd be NOTHING without him. He is our offense. We can lose Tiki and still win games. We lose Eli for the season, and we're done. Period. Eli is more important to this offense than Tiki. By a mile. And ATL has an incredible pass D by the way. Even Peyton isn't unstoppable every quarter of every game.
I didn't knock him in Washington because he played very well that game, which is because I don't think Eli is a bad QB. which you constantly seem to act like I believe just because I am pointing out that he had bad games. How on Earth you refuse to accept that he played poorly in
Seattle makes no sense at all

At this point there is really no way we can prove whether or not the Giants would be any good without Eli.

The only thing that I have noticed is that this offense has been a lot more explosive now that Tiki is starting to run wild. And that the Giants are able to win when he runs exceptionally well even when his quarterback is struggling.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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These debates are so difficult and annoying because the maturation of a QB usually takes 2-3 years of being a starter. I said from the start that I will not expect Eli to lead this team through thick and thin until after the 2007 season. He has proven to me that he is more than dependaboe late in games and he is more then dependable on the road, two things that some great NFL QBs struggle with 5-6 years into their careers. They're all off to great starts IN THEIR OWN WAY, NONE OF WHICH IS ANY BETTER OR ANY WORSE THAN THE OTHER. I still would take Eli because of his ability in the clutch and his awareness of the game on the field and in the film room. But any one of these 3 are more than capable of leaving the league with 3 rings.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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You guys are telling me that if the pro bowl was tomorrow you wouldn't put Rivers in the pro bowl? It'd be tragic is the guy who is 5th in his league in yards, 1st in QB rating, 2nd in completion percentage, 4th in yards per attempt, and 4th in TD didn't make the pro bowl. Especially since Chad Pennington is the only other QB to be in the top 5 in all of those categories.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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You guys are telling me that if the pro bowl was tomorrow you wouldn't put Rivers in the pro bowl? It'd be tragic is the guy who is 5th in his league in yards, 1st in QB rating, 2nd in completion percentage, 4th in yards per attempt, and 4th in TD didn't make the pro bowl. Especially since Chad Pennington is the only other QB to be in the top 5 in all of those categories.
Would you say he is more important to his team than Tom Brady? How about Chad Pennington? Peyton Manning? You don't think Carson will start playing better? Etc.

Stats don't tell the whole story.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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You guys are telling me that if the pro bowl was tomorrow you wouldn't put Rivers in the pro bowl? It'd be tragic is the guy who is 5th in his league in yards, 1st in QB rating, 2nd in completion percentage, 4th in yards per attempt, and 4th in TD didn't make the pro bowl. Especially since Chad Pennington is the only other QB to be in the top 5 in all of those categories.
Would you say he is more important to his team than Tom Brady? How about Chad Pennington? Peyton Manning? You don't think Carson will start playing better? Etc.
Well the pro bowl isn't about who is more valuable as it is who has fancier numbers.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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You guys are telling me that if the pro bowl was tomorrow you wouldn't put Rivers in the pro bowl? It'd be tragic is the guy who is 5th in his league in yards, 1st in QB rating, 2nd in completion percentage, 4th in yards per attempt, and 4th in TD didn't make the pro bowl. Especially since Chad Pennington is the only other QB to be in the top 5 in all of those categories.
Would you say he is more important to his team than Tom Brady? How about Chad Pennington? Peyton Manning? You don't think Carson will start playing better? Etc.
Well the pro bowl isn't about who is more valuable as it is who has fancier numbers.
Not true. Who had the most tackles last year? Vilma. Did he make the pro bowl first team? Just one example.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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You guys are telling me that if the pro bowl was tomorrow you wouldn't put Rivers in the pro bowl? It'd be tragic is the guy who is 5th in his league in yards, 1st in QB rating, 2nd in completion percentage, 4th in yards per attempt, and 4th in TD didn't make the pro bowl. Especially since Chad Pennington is the only other QB to be in the top 5 in all of those categories.
Would you say he is more important to his team than Tom Brady? How about Chad Pennington? Peyton Manning? You don't think Carson will start playing better? Etc.

Stats don't tell the whole story.
The probowl isn't the MVP. If the probowl was tomorrow, the QB would be Manning, Rivers, and Pennington. Will Carson start playing better? Probably, but you can't judge him because you assume he will play better and you assume Rivers will get worse. You have to base it off of what has actually happened. I assume a lot of things will change, that doesn't mean they will for a fact.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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My only problem with this thread is that.

Every knock that someone makes on Ben could be attributed to Eli as well, but it doesn't apply to Eli because he's a different player.

It's damn near impossible to compare them because Ben's System doesn't need him to throw 50 times, and I'm sure if there was a game that everyone was putting forth their best effort? he could.

Eli has been an interception machine, but thats ok?

I'm not flaming or starting a fight, but every argument that people have made about Eli could be made for Ben but just because everyone hates Ben it's ok to only defend Eli?

Ben Plays bad this first part of the season. I don't think many other players could have a near death motorcycle accident, emergency appendectomy and then lead their team to a great start.

I'm not saying he's turned the corner, but look at the game yesterday. He wasn't just a game manager. He didn't need to throw 20+ Times. Look what he accomplished in 19 throws.

he was 16 of 19
84% completion rate for 238 yards.

He's back to his 150+ QB rating at 153.8%.
2 Touchdowns.

1 Sack.

But here's the stat you ignore:

Ward had 5 Receptions (most since Miami we're 2-0 when ward gets 5+ receptions) and a TD.
Washington had 3 for 68 yards.. 22.7 Avg and a TD
Wilson had 3 for 42 yards
Holmes had 2 for 58 yards 29 yd avg

THE RECIEVERS WERE OPEN! Granted this wasn't the greated secondary. And i'm not saying he's back. But like I said, I'm sick of hearing it was OK for Eli to single handedly blow the NYG-Carolina game, and It's not ok for Ben to play so-so in the Superbowl and Win. He's still Young. They all are, there's people Questioning Palmer now, and he's getting the "Well he's not a veteran" Defense.

I'm sick of hearing people say Ben isn't a great QB like Eli/Rivers or Palmer. He up until this season only had to manage the game because they'd get up 20+ Points and just sit on the lead, Another great thing about having a Great defense.

His QB Rating for the past 2 seasons were a tad under 100... which isn't too bad.
Average ?

Peyton was 112.6
Roeths was 98.35 the last 2 seasons
Brady was 92.45
Palmer was 89.2. He has arguably a top 2 tandem of WR's (Cards)
Eli was a 84.1
and Rivers to this point is 100.6.

This stat may only show the ability to not make mistakes. But You guys denounce the guy that says "Ben has a ring". Because he was handed the ring? Eli had just as much chance last year. Our oline has played bad? Can I use that as an excuse for Ben? No because he's Ben. Ben Threw 7 INT's this season, Can I say it's because of him being Ill prepared this seaosn? No, But Palmer fumbles every 2 plays, and it's just because he was injured. Thats ok.

I hate the logic you guys use just because it's Ben Freakin Roethlisberger. Try being Unbiased once.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Yada yada
Look at Ben's stats when he actually has to win the game. Then, if you still want to, come back and complain.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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The probowl isn't the MVP. If the probowl was tomorrow, the QB would be Manning, Rivers, and Pennington. Will Carson start playing better? Probably, but you can't judge him because you assume he will play better and you assume Rivers will get worse. You have to base it off of what has actually happened. I assume a lot of things will change, that doesn't mean they will for a fact.
Brady will NEVER miss a pro bowl when he isn't injured, dead, or retired, unless 2 other people put up amazing stats. Right now,there haven't been. The same rule applies to Manning. Really, there is only one spot for QB's in the AFC, and I think Pennington should get in ahead of Rivers because the Jets have no running game, and our offense relies entirely on him.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by frogstomp
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
Yada yada
Look at Ben's stats when he actually has to win the game. Then, if you still want to, come back and complain.
You mean like in Denver last year? His stats were pretty good then. 21/29 for 275 yards and 2 tds in one of the hardest placest to play in the NFL. He also ran a td in. The Steelers only ran the ball 33 times and for 2.7 ypc. Ben won them that game on offense.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Basileus777
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Originally Posted by frogstomp
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
Yada yada
Look at Ben's stats when he actually has to win the game. Then, if you still want to, come back and complain.
You mean like in Denver last year? His stats were pretty good then.
Thats what irritates me. You'll make the excuse that Eli has to win the game. It doesn't matter the fact he has an all-pro RB, or 2 of the best defensive ends in the league to hold his lead, but Eli leads the whole team, Meanwhile ben is just a so-so game manager. But the Fact Ben went 13-0 as a rookie regular season starter.. AND 1-1 in his first preseason? It irritates me that everyone will defend Eli to the death because he's Eli Manning. But will make the same arguments against Ben, that could be made about Eli, but thats not ok.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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This is starting to get laughable. Ben manages a game for a win and he's all of a sudden the messiah again. Rivers plays 5 games and he's a PBer. Manning is responsible for other teams scoring points on us. Apparantley he not only plays QB, but he's also a DE and a CB.

Im gonna make sure this thread never gets washed away in meaningless jibber jabber. Why? I want to see exactly how many people here do a 180 and hop off the Rivers bandwagon once he starts slumping. Its unbelievable how people can invest so much opinion into so little substance.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by Basileus777
Quote:
Originally Posted by frogstomp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
Yada yada
Look at Ben's stats when he actually has to win the game. Then, if you still want to, come back and complain.
You mean like in Denver last year? His stats were pretty good then.
Thats what irritates me. You'll make the excuse that Eli has to win the game. It doesn't matter the fact he has an all-pro RB, or 2 of the best defensive ends in the league to hold his lead, but Eli leads the whole team, Meanwhile ben is just a so-so game manager. But the Fact Ben went 13-0 as a rookie regular season starter.. AND 1-1 in his first preseason? It irritates me that everyone will defend Eli to the death because he's Eli Manning. But will make the same arguments against Ben, that could be made about Eli, but thats not ok.
I see where you're coming from but-

The Steelers O-line, rushing game, defense, and coaching are all better than the Giants.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by Basileus777
Quote:
Originally Posted by frogstomp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
Yada yada
Look at Ben's stats when he actually has to win the game. Then, if you still want to, come back and complain.
You mean like in Denver last year? His stats were pretty good then.
Thats what irritates me. You'll make the excuse that Eli has to win the game. It doesn't matter the fact he has an all-pro RB, or 2 of the best defensive ends in the league to hold his lead, but Eli leads the whole team, Meanwhile ben is just a so-so game manager. But the Fact Ben went 13-0 as a rookie regular season starter.. AND 1-1 in his first preseason? It irritates me that everyone will defend Eli to the death because he's Eli Manning. But will make the same arguments against Ben, that could be made about Eli, but thats not ok.
You claim you can make the same comparos, yet you couldn't be more wrong.

1. W/L record is more of an indication of the TEAM, not an individual player. A qb who averaged roughly 17 throws a game as a rookie should not be credited solely for the W/L record that year like so many Steelers fans do. You point the finger at us, yet 99% of the Steeler fans out there credit Ben solely for their SB success which is obviously inaccurate. Pot calling the kettle black?

2. Ben has not won any games when he has to throw 30+ times, and has a qb rating of roughly 50. 50. Naturally, common sense tells you that the more you throw, the chances are more likely that your qb rating will go down.

3. Eli lost the Carolina game on his own? Yes he played bad, no doubt. He wasn't a linebacker though. We had 4th string LBs in that game, and Carolina had double the T.O.P. that we had. But thats Eli's fault...you never see Ben get that kind of blame, but everyone backs up Eli right?

4. Before the season started, all we heard from you guys was how Miller is a PB caliber TE, Ward is a PB WR, and Parker is a double threat out of the backfield. Now he has no help? Right...

We can go on and on and on...but seriously, this is getting tiring.
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Old 10-16-2006, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
Yada yada
Look at Ben's stats when he actually has to win the game. Then, if you still want to, come back and complain.
You mean like in Denver last year? His stats were pretty good then. 21/29 for 275 yards and 2 tds in one of the hardest placest to play in the NFL. He also ran a td in. The Steelers only ran the ball 33 times and for 2.7 ypc. Ben won them that game on offense.
One game, eh? How about the Superbowl? How about Jacksonville, Cincy, and San Diego where he actually had to throw more than 30 times?
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Old 10-16-2006, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by Basileus777
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Originally Posted by frogstomp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
Yada yada
Look at Ben's stats when he actually has to win the game. Then, if you still want to, come back and complain.
You mean like in Denver last year? His stats were pretty good then.
Thats what irritates me. You'll make the excuse that Eli has to win the game. It doesn't matter the fact he has an all-pro RB, or 2 of the best defensive ends in the league to hold his lead, but Eli leads the whole team, Meanwhile ben is just a so-so game manager. But the Fact Ben went 13-0 as a rookie regular season starter.. AND 1-1 in his first preseason? It irritates me that everyone will defend Eli to the death because he's Eli Manning. But will make the same arguments against Ben, that could be made about Eli, but thats not ok.
I see where you're coming from but-

The Steelers O-line, rushing game, defense, and coaching are all better than the Giants.
what I was mainly trying to point out there was... (Bold)
Big Blue you noticed I was defending Ben before his win. He played Well yesterday. What does he have to do to win a game and not manager it? He has 2 TD passes and averaged 15 yards a pass. He Beat KC with His arm. Eli managed, 180 yards off of 17 completions, 30 attempts. He also had 2 TDs, but Had 2 INTs. Ben did better than Eli yesterday, but Eli can't do wrong, Yet Ben played a good game so, he just managed the game well.

Albeit 2 different teams Atlanta and Kansas City, but We'll play Atlanta next week. We'll see how Ben does next week.

I just don't see how Eli is so well and cut better than Ben, Because Ben had a slow start this season (See: Carson Palmer), but yet both Carson and Eli are top 10 QB's and Roeth is just a game Manager. Thats Rediculous.
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Old 10-16-2006, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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Ben threw 29 times in the AFC championship game and was the Steelers offense that game. Thats not managing the game. Who cares if it was 1 throw below 30. None of the Ben-haters/Eli-Homers have addressed his performance at Indie and Denver last year. You can't pretend that those games never happened in order to support what you want to believe.
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