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Old 10-16-2006, 04:34 PM    (permalink
frogstomp
 
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Originally Posted by Concord83
so, you cite it not being there as proof of it not being a word, and then you use another entry to discredit the site? hmm...okay. :roll:


back on topic, out of ben, eli, and philip, who is next to win a championship?
note: i used it after he did. :roll:
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Old 10-16-2006, 04:34 PM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by Shiver
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going 15-1 as a rookie starter? Thats Common, no elite players haven't done this.
He had nothing to do with that. Kyle Orton had similar success as a rookie QB. Anybody can play that way, with stellar run offense and defense. I don't see anyone claiming Kyle Orton is an elite NFL QB because of his "W-L" record.

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Winning your first ever rookie playoff game? Thats common, Every rookie does this.
He did everything in his power to lose that game. He was lucky that the Jets didn't have a kicker.

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Winning a ring? Every QB gets his chance to do this.
Trent Dilfer won a ring, Dan Marino didn't. The Super Bowl is the epitomy of a team accomplishment.

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Being the youngest QB to ever win a superbowl? This is challenged yearly.
See above, he's better to be lucky than all that good.

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Leading a good team to 2 straight winning seasons, AFC Championships and a superbowl win? Eh, I'm tired of hearing this story, it's old, happens yearly.
He didn't "lead" anything. He played controlled football, while relying on a awesome Dick LeBeau defense and a phenomenal run blocking O-Line. He's an alright NFL QB that looks great at times because he has been on a stellar football team.
Which I've pointed his stats towards Palmer and Brady's but just like when I said he and Eli have problems in the same area? You can't compare Ben to anyone because he's the worst QB known to man. A lot of QB's on run first teams lose games when throwing fo 30+ tries... Like i showed both Palmer and Brady did, but thats ok, because they're not Ben.
Funny how they all have excuses for why Ben is bad, but then they will defend that idiot qb in atlanta. Go figure. Must be alot of young kids on this site.
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Old 10-16-2006, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by frogstomp
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Originally Posted by Basileus777
Did you actually read my post? Dictionary.com uses the word in their example. Who cares if it has its own entry or not.
:shock: It's USED by dictionary.com? Wow... that means that http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Phiz is a real word too! I can start citing this for all my University Essays. Thank you!
Hypothetical can be used as a noun. To pluralize it, you add an s. Hypotheticals. :roll:
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Old 10-16-2006, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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vick is without a doubt at least one of, if not THE worst qb in the nfl. he has absolutely no touch whatsoever on his passes. it pains me to watch ron mexico attempt to play the quarterback position.
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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by the end of the year eli will pull away.
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Despite 15 pages of this thread, I still have the same feelings.

- While Eli has had plenty of shinning moments, he has had plenty of dull ones too. In my mind, Eli has a long way to go to prove he is a great NFL QB.

- Likewise, Rivers has a long way to go to prove he is a great NFL QB. However, I won't hold his lack of game experience against him. He sat behind a top ten NFL QB for his first two years after a contract holdout. I have no doubts that if Rivers had been thrown into the fire from Day One, he would have had a lot of Eli great moments and a lot of Eli bad moments.

- Both Eli and PR has some great weapons around them. Burress is the NFL's biggest WR and having Toomer as a second option is top notch too. Gates is an elite TE and Shockey is a very good recieving option. Both LT and Tiki are great dual threat backs with excellent hands. Both QB's have benefited greatly from these guys. However, if either were in a 49ers/Bills type situation, I think you would see a lot of production suffer.

- McNeil is very young OT who has taken a lot of lumps already. He's showing steady improvement but is still a long way from being a good pass blocker. Oliva on the other side is a solid pass blocker but the remaining guys on the line are more suited for the run. If San Diego line is better than NY's, it's certainly not by much. A lot of sacks, Eli gets from holding onto the ball to long (at least the case last year several times)

- Big Ben was placed in a great position to succeed. I give him all the credit in the world for achieving what he did with the Steelers. However, I firmly believe there were at least ten other NFL QB's who could have done the same thing.

- Taken from a draft day perspective, San Deigo walked out with the gold. Getting essentially Meriman in exchange of the two QB's is outstanding. Pittsburgh walked out with the silver, getting Big Ben that low was a huge steal and even if he never takes another snap, he'll have been worth it. NY Giants got a franchise QB and by all accounts a great one but right now I have to give them the bronze. Eli appears to be moving into an elite QB but will the Giants window have closed with Tiki, etc.

- If I'm starting a team right now, I take PR. I love his leadership ability, on the field demeanor and winning attitude. His is pinpoint accurrate, makes smart decisions and has good arm strength and size. His funky release is no issue at all. His lack of athleticism is hidden because of his smarts. Look no further than his key 15 yard run against Pitt.
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:23 PM    (permalink
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concord83
so, you cite it not being there as proof of it not being a word, and then you use another entry to discredit the site? hmm...okay. :roll:


back on topic, out of ben, eli, and philip, who is next to win a championship?
Ben will win another before the other guys. Eli won't win one for a long time, if ever. Just don't see the Giants being good enough to do so.
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by snortie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concord83
so, you cite it not being there as proof of it not being a word, and then you use another entry to discredit the site? hmm...okay. :roll:


back on topic, out of ben, eli, and philip, who is next to win a championship?
Ben will win another before the other guys. Eli won't win one for a long time, if ever. Just don't see the Giants being good enough to do so.
If you use that logic, would you consider it to be Eli's fault if the Giants team isn't good enough?
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Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marks01234
- McNeil is very young OT who has taken a lot of lumps already. He's showing steady improvement but is still a long way from being a good pass blocker. Oliva on the other side is a solid pass blocker but the remaining guys on the line are more suited for the run. If San Diego line is better than NY's, it's certainly not by much. A lot of sacks, Eli gets from holding onto the ball to long (at least the case last year several times)
Right now the Chargers oline is built to pass block. They used to be a primarily run blocking line when they had Garmon and Fonoti who were huge road graders. Now they have a much smaller line designed to pass protect. Look at Nick Hardwick, he looks smaller than many rbs. Dielman is not a good run blocker either.
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:35 PM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by Number 10
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Originally Posted by snortie
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Originally Posted by Concord83
so, you cite it not being there as proof of it not being a word, and then you use another entry to discredit the site? hmm...okay. :roll:


back on topic, out of ben, eli, and philip, who is next to win a championship?
Ben will win another before the other guys. Eli won't win one for a long time, if ever. Just don't see the Giants being good enough to do so.
If you use that logic, would you consider it to be Eli's fault if the Giants team isn't good enough?
Partly his fault. It's a team effort. Yesterday he wasn't very impressive. The Giants go as far as Tiki will take them. If tiki goes out the Giants are done, Eli cannot make up for that.
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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Mr. Stiller-

Since you value the ring oh-so-much when evaluating a QB...can you give me a rundown on your opinion of Dan Marino?
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Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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They wont ever reply to that. They are set in their opinion that Ben Roethlisberger is the savior of a sub-par Steelers team and has led them to a championship.
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Old 10-16-2006, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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So basically Mr. Stiller has admitted that he is wrong.


Thank you.
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Old 10-16-2006, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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See, the Steelers fans are trying to say us Falcon and Giant fans are biased. Yet we both have him as an above average NFL QB, and it's not like he isn't going to get better. It's not that he's bad, he isn't, it's that he gets undue credit for "having a ring."
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Old 10-16-2006, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
See, the Steelers fans are trying to say us Falcon and Giant fans are biased. Yet we both have him as an above average NFL QB, and it's not like he isn't going to get better. It's not that he's bad, he isn't, it's that he gets undue credit for "having a ring."
Yeh the Giants-Falcons fans' comments are cop outs. I, along with my Giant buddies, have said that Ben is a very good young QB that will have a good amount of success down the road. He however is just a tad over hyped by some because of the Super Bowl, which he had a Trent Dilfer type impact on. That's all.
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Old 10-16-2006, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Concord83
would anyone in here argue that if philip or eli were at the helm of last years steelers, pittsburgh would NOT have won the Super Bowl?
The Steelers would not have gotten to the Super Bowl with Eli. Eli is a Manning and they choke big time in the playoffs like Eli did last year. Come back when Eli leads his team to its first points in the playoffs.
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Old 10-16-2006, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Concord83
would anyone in here argue that if philip or eli were at the helm of last years steelers, pittsburgh would NOT have won the Super Bowl?
The Steelers would not have gotten to the Super Bowl with Eli. Eli is a Manning and they choke big time in the playoffs like Eli did last year. Come back when Eli leads his team to its first points in the playoffs.
I love judging QBs in the postseason after one game.

Go away Giants troll.
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Old 10-16-2006, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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would anyone in here argue that if philip or eli were at the helm of last years steelers, pittsburgh would NOT have won the Super Bowl?
The Steelers would not have gotten to the Super Bowl with Eli. Eli is a Manning and they choke big time in the playoffs like Eli did last year. Come back when Eli leads his team to its first points in the playoffs.
A little bitter that Eli has been proving you wrong?
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Old 10-16-2006, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
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See, the Steelers fans are trying to say us Falcon and Giant fans are biased. Yet we both have him as an above average NFL QB, and it's not like he isn't going to get better. It's not that he's bad, he isn't, it's that he gets undue credit for "having a ring."
Yeh the Giants-Falcons fans' comments are cop outs. I, along with my Giant buddies, have said that Ben is a very good young QB that will have a good amount of success down the road. He however is just a tad over hyped by some because of the Super Bowl, which he had a Trent Dilfer type impact on. That's all.

and eli isn't a "tad" overhyped because he's a manning? i mean, seriously. what did he ever do that made him better than rivers? other than everyone proclaiming him the next peyton? this is NOT a flame. i really want to know your opinion as a giants fan.

edit: i'm talking college, not nfl.
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Old 10-16-2006, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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My whole point is this.

Ben is considered a game manager and just barely above Average QB.

He has outperformed Eli and Phillip. Granted it's been a team performance as well. But You don't knock Rivers for having LT and that killer defense? Yet it's a knock on ben that he's simply a game manager.

What have Eli and Phillip done so far to warrant that their Elite that Ben Hasn't done and yet he gets knocked for it.

Eli had a crappy playoff game, he gets a free pass because "He was a rookie, and it was his first one." I'm basically saying I'm sick and tired of hearing Excuses for why Manning didn't perform so well, yet every time I make a point I'm a homer and I'm just hyping a "Sub-par Steelers Team".

Ben and Eli could play Identically through the rest of the season. Eli will be considered Elite because.. He's Eli Manning. Ben would still be considered a game manager.

My whole point is team or not. Ben did win a superbowl, he didn't play great, but he still played well enough to win. He also Had a big role in defeating Denver, Cincinnatti and Indy.

However thats a knock against him? Why is Eli getting a pass everytime he plays a ****** game but Ben is a ****** QB because he has a bad game every now again. Put your homerism aside and give me an unbiased opinion.

I'm not saying Ben will be a better QB for the rest of their careers... But seriously? Why is Eli, who hasn't proved that much, a top 10 QB already and Ben is simply a game Manager..
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Old 10-16-2006, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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My whole point is this.

Ben is considered a game manager and just barely above Average QB.

He has outperformed Eli and Phillip. Granted it's been a team performance as well. But You don't knock Rivers for having LT and that killer defense? Yet it's a knock on ben that he's simply a game manager.

What have Eli and Phillip done so far to warrant that their Elite that Ben Hasn't done and yet he gets knocked for it.

Eli had a crappy playoff game, he gets a free pass because "He was a rookie, and it was his first one." I'm basically saying I'm sick and tired of hearing Excuses for why Manning didn't perform so well, yet every time I make a point I'm a homer and I'm just hyping a "Sub-par Steelers Team".

Ben and Eli could play Identically through the rest of the season. Eli will be considered Elite because.. He's Eli Manning. Ben would still be considered a game manager.

My whole point is team or not. Ben did win a superbowl, he didn't play great, but he still played well enough to win. He also Had a big role in defeating Denver, Cincinnatti and Indy.

However thats a knock against him? Why is Eli getting a pass everytime he plays a *********** game but Ben is a *********** QB because he has a bad game every now again. Put your homerism aside and give me an unbiased opinion.

I'm not saying Ben will be a better QB for the rest of their careers... But seriously? Why is Eli, who hasn't proved that much, a top 10 QB already and Ben is simply a game Manager..
Just look at last years stats.
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Old 10-16-2006, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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Eli Manning is the opposite of Ben Roethlisberger. The Giants pass to set up Tiki Barber for big gashing runs. The Steelers run to set up Ben for vertical play action passes.
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Old 10-16-2006, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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Eli Manning is the opposite of Ben Roethlisberger. The Giants pass to set up Tiki Barber for big gashing runs. The Steelers run to set up Ben for vertical play action passes.
What the hell does that matter? Offensive philosophies are different, who cares? They didn't change anything when Ben came aboard and no one expected them to. What works, works. You guys have no freakin' idea how dumb this argument is. All 3 of them are good and get the job done...let it cease!
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Old 10-16-2006, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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Old 10-16-2006, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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Eli Manning is the opposite of Ben Roethlisberger. The Giants pass to set up Tiki Barber for big gashing runs. The Steelers run to set up Ben for vertical play action passes.
What the hell does that matter? Offensive philosophies are different, who cares? They didn't change anything when Ben came aboard and no one expected them to. What works, works. You guys have no freakin' idea how dumb this argument is. All 3 of them are good and get the job done...let it cease!

Do you even know what argument I am making? I think Ben is an above average NFL QB, that is overhyped due to his Super Bowl ring. It's not like I think he's bad.
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