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Old 11-19-2006, 07:36 PM    (permalink
Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by Number 10
Great finish by Big Ben and he is showing he can be clutch in big spots. He is starting to earn more of my respect, just has to take care of the ball more.
He really can't make up for the fact that ced and hines got perfect passes and they tipped it to the defense, the pick six was too high for holmes but he could have made the play.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:37 PM    (permalink
 
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Ben played quite well today. But until Rivers plays a bad game I'm going to have to still say he is better.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:39 PM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Ben played quite well today. But until Rivers plays a bad game I'm going to have to still say he is better.
Until River can actually lead his team to 2 afc championship games and a superbowl win, he isn't close to being better than Ben. 9 games doesn't make you great.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:40 PM    (permalink
Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Ben played quite well today. But until Rivers plays a bad game I'm going to have to still say he is better.
I'm not trying to fight...

I'm just pointing this out.

the two good teams they played.. Baltimore and KC, they lost.

They beat up a bunch of 2-6 teams and the likes. Tonight is Phillips real first test.

But why isn't ben just as good he did more with less his rookie year, and he went 9-0.

I'd Take Ben or Eli because they have a longer streak of proven success. my complaint is this argument is too shortsighted.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:45 PM    (permalink
 
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I know they Chargers have yet to beat a good team and that Ben was simply amazing but Rivers hasn't really played bad in a single game this season. I think he has a chance to prove a lot tonight.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
Great finish by Big Ben and he is showing he can be clutch in big spots. He is starting to earn more of my respect, just has to take care of the ball more.
He really can't make up for the fact that ced and hines got perfect passes and they tipped it to the defense, the pick six was too high for holmes but he could have made the play.
Wasn't just the INTs that made him look bad. And EVERY QB is the victim of catchable balls being intercepted by the defense.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:46 PM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by snortie
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Ben played quite well today. But until Rivers plays a bad game I'm going to have to still say he is better.
Until River can actually lead his team to 2 afc championship games and a superbowl win, he isn't close to being better than Ben. 9 games doesn't make you great.
Ben is not the reason they won the Super Bowl game. He played like ****.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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Rivers beat a good Cincy team last week. Actually led them back (well of course with the help of LT) to a win. I'd still take Rivers over Manning and Big Ben right now. But that's my opinion.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
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Originally Posted by snortie
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Ben played quite well today. But until Rivers plays a bad game I'm going to have to still say he is better.
Until River can actually lead his team to 2 afc championship games and a superbowl win, he isn't close to being better than Ben. 9 games doesn't make you great.
Ben is not the reason they won the Super Bowl game. He played like ***********.
But they rallied behind him to get there, and he did more than enough. The least his team could do is play good enough to win him.

Not every 23 year old QB throws for 1000 yards in the superbowl.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by Number 10
Great finish by Big Ben and he is showing he can be clutch in big spots. He is starting to earn more of my respect, just has to take care of the ball more.
He really can't make up for the fact that ced and hines got perfect passes and they tipped it to the defense, the pick six was too high for holmes but he could have made the play.
Wasn't just the INTs that made him look bad. And EVERY QB is the victim of catchable balls being intercepted by the defense.
did you watch the game, Ben was a tank, mobile, untacklable and avoided 3 sacks after getting grabbed.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:50 PM    (permalink
 
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I didn't say that he didn't lead them there, because he did. I'm just saying that he had a chance to show the world just how good he was on the biggest possible stage, and he played terrible.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:51 PM    (permalink
Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
I didn't say that he didn't lead them there, because he did. I'm just saying that he had a chance to show the world just how good he was on the biggest possible stage, and he played terrible.
He was only in his second year playing. He played well enough not to be the reason they lost.

Because you know, Philip Rivers raped his opposition in the Super Bowl...
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
I know they Chargers have yet to beat a good team and that Ben was simply amazing but Rivers hasn't really played bad in a single game this season. I think he has a chance to prove a lot tonight.
Ben didn't play bad in his 15-1 season other than in the playoffs
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:53 PM    (permalink
 
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That is a terrible arguement. You can't knock Rivers just because he hasn't had the opportunity to play in the playoffs. I don't care if it was only Ben's second a year. When you take your team to the Super Bowl, you're supposed to play well to help them win the game and Ben did not do that.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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i've coming to this conclusion...

Huge Passing #'s are overrated.

Drew Brees had 510 and lost
Carson Palmer had 440 and lost
Ben had 433 and lost
Harrington had 420 and lost.

Maybe the fact a QB doesn't have to pass 30 times doesn't mean he can't lead his team, just that he does more with the chances he takes...
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:58 PM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
i've coming to this conclusion...

Huge Passing #'s are overrated.

Drew Brees had 510 and lost
Carson Palmer had 440 and lost
Ben had 433 and lost
Harrington had 420 and lost.

Maybe the fact a QB doesn't have to pass 30 times doesn't mean he can't lead his team, just that he does more with the chances he takes...
Carson played very well. The Defense lost them that game.

Ben also had 3 INT's in that game. As did Harrington in his game. Yards are a bad way to judge how well a QB plays. QB rating is the best and Ben's was 40 something in the Super Bowl. That is bad.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:59 PM    (permalink
Mr. Stiller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
i've coming to this conclusion...

Huge Passing #'s are overrated.

Drew Brees had 510 and lost
Carson Palmer had 440 and lost
Ben had 433 and lost
Harrington had 420 and lost.

Maybe the fact a QB doesn't have to pass 30 times doesn't mean he can't lead his team, just that he does more with the chances he takes...
Carson played very well. The Defense lost them that game.

Ben also had 3 INT's in that game. As did Harrington in his game. Yards are a bad way to judge how well a QB plays. QB rating is the best and Ben's was 40 something in the Super Bowl. That is bad.
See when I said that someone blasted me saying it's the most overrated category, because his rookie and soph season... he was 3rd only to Palmer and Manning.
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:01 PM    (permalink
 
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He wasn't even top 5 as a rookie. :?
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
He wasn't even top 5 as a rookie. :?
Actually he was 5th among starters.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/...r?&_1:col_1=15
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
He wasn't even top 5 as a rookie. :?
I was wrong..

However so are you.

Passer Rating
Rank Player Team Yds Att Cmp TDs Ints Long Rating
1 Peyton Manning IND 4557 497 336 49 10 80 121.1
2 Daunte Culpepper MIN 4717 548 379 39 11 82 110.9
3 Drew Brees SD 3159 400 262 27 7 79 104.8
4 Donovan McNabb PHI 3875 469 300 31 8 80 104.7
5 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 2621 295 196 17 11 58 98.1

he was #5.. therefore top 5..

2005:


Passer Rating
Rank Player Team Yds Att Cmp TDs Ints Long Rating
1 Peyton Manning IND 3747 453 305 28 10 80 104.1
2 Carson Palmer CIN 3836 509 345 32 12 70 101.1
3 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 2385 268 168 17 9 85 98.6
4 Matt Hasselbeck SEA 3459 449 294 24 9 56 98.2
5 Marc Bulger STL 2297 287 192 14 9 57 94.4
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:15 PM    (permalink
 
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My bad.
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:16 PM    (permalink
Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
My bad.
It's alright,

to Quote Denny green somewhat.


"He's barely done anything in this league, he may not be who he thought he was. IF YOU WANNA CROWN HIM, THEN CROWN HIM ALREADY!"
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:17 PM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
That is a terrible arguement. You can't knock Rivers just because he hasn't had the opportunity to play in the playoffs. I don't care if it was only Ben's second a year. When you take your team to the Super Bowl, you're supposed to play well to help them win the game and Ben did not do that.
Then I guess John Elway sucks the big one, cause his superbowl performances were terrible.
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
That is a terrible arguement. You can't knock Rivers just because he hasn't had the opportunity to play in the playoffs. I don't care if it was only Ben's second a year. When you take your team to the Super Bowl, you're supposed to play well to help them win the game and Ben did not do that.
Then I guess John Elway sucks the big one, cause his superbowl performances were terrible.
That is such a terrible argument.
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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At this point in their careers, I would rank them:
1. Eli Manning
2. Philip Rivers
3. Ben Roethlisberger
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