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Old 11-20-2006, 05:50 PM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
Wow i started a pretty nice thread. And it doesn't seem to be going away any time soon. But, if Eli Manning puts up 4 TDs and 350 yard tonight (i'm not saying... i'm just saying) i'm going to lobby to have this thread closed.
One good game doesn't make you better than another player. Also I think most non-giant fans would have Eli last out of the 3.
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Old 11-20-2006, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
Wow i started a pretty nice thread. And it doesn't seem to be going away any time soon. But, if Eli Manning puts up 4 TDs and 350 yard tonight (i'm not saying... i'm just saying) i'm going to lobby to have this thread closed.
One good game doesn't make you better than another player. Also I think most non-giant fans would have Eli last out of the 3.
Speaking of hypotheticals: What if Eli Manning overthrows his receivers, including a pair of interceptions off of them? Then what? :roll:
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Old 11-20-2006, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by marks01234
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
You guys can say whatever homer comments you want about how Rivers throws' wouldn't work in New York (lol) or whatever, but Rivers just led his team back from deficits of 21 and 17 in the second half of games against two division champions. Just because LT struck the killing blows with his 3 yard TD runs doesn't mean Rivers didn't move the team down the field and score touchdowns on THE FINAL 4 DRIVES FOR THE WIN last night, against the league's stingiest defense.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, especially about the long term projections of all 3 quarterbacks, but there's no one I'd rather have QBing the Chargers right now than Rivers.
BINGO

Rivers OL is far from amazing either. It might be a bit better than the Giants but it's not better than the Steelers.

Burress>>>>Parker
17 sacks on Rivers ... 27 on Ben.. the sad part is, Ben's a better scrambler....
Thats true and the reason he doesn't get sacked is because of his quick release. He normally doesn't hold onto the ball very long.
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Old 11-20-2006, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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As far as the comment about Rivers' style working/not working in New York in winter months, the evidence actually shows that it's Eli who has struggled in Nov./Dec./January in Giants Stadium. Maybe it's his game which isn't suited to the swirling winds and cold weather.
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Old 11-20-2006, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
As far as the comment about Rivers' style working/not working in New York in winter months, the evidence actually shows that it's Eli who has struggled in Nov./Dec./January in Giants Stadium. Maybe it's his game which isn't suited to the swirling winds and cold weather.
I'm pretty sure the point is no one will put up good stats in that stadium.
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Old 11-20-2006, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
As far as the comment about Rivers' style working/not working in New York in winter months, the evidence actually shows that it's Eli who has struggled in Nov./Dec./January in Giants Stadium. Maybe it's his game which isn't suited to the swirling winds and cold weather.
I'm pretty sure the point is no one will put up good stats in that stadium.
Then it is a moot point and Eli is no more suited for Giants Stadium than Rivers is.
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Old 11-20-2006, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by marks01234
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
You guys can say whatever homer comments you want about how Rivers throws' wouldn't work in New York (lol) or whatever, but Rivers just led his team back from deficits of 21 and 17 in the second half of games against two division champions. Just because LT struck the killing blows with his 3 yard TD runs doesn't mean Rivers didn't move the team down the field and score touchdowns on THE FINAL 4 DRIVES FOR THE WIN last night, against the league's stingiest defense.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, especially about the long term projections of all 3 quarterbacks, but there's no one I'd rather have QBing the Chargers right now than Rivers.
BINGO

Rivers OL is far from amazing either. It might be a bit better than the Giants but it's not better than the Steelers.

Burress>>>>Parker
17 sacks on Rivers ... 27 on Ben.. the sad part is, Ben's a better scrambler....
Thats true and the reason he doesn't get sacked is because of his quick release. He normally doesn't hold onto the ball very long.
And 2 seconds after the snap atleast LT or Gates is open... which is the opposite for Ward/Holmes/Wilson.
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Old 11-20-2006, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
As far as the comment about Rivers' style working/not working in New York in winter months, the evidence actually shows that it's Eli who has struggled in Nov./Dec./January in Giants Stadium. Maybe it's his game which isn't suited to the swirling winds and cold weather.
I'm pretty sure the point is no one will put up good stats in that stadium.
Then it is a moot point and Eli is no more suited for Giants Stadium than Rivers is.
I'm not sure if you are following, its the fact that Rivers will probably be able to put up better numbers because hes not playing half his games in Giants Stadium.
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Old 11-20-2006, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
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As far as the comment about Rivers' style working/not working in New York in winter months, the evidence actually shows that it's Eli who has struggled in Nov./Dec./January in Giants Stadium. Maybe it's his game which isn't suited to the swirling winds and cold weather.
I'm pretty sure the point is no one will put up good stats in that stadium.
Then it is a moot point and Eli is no more suited for Giants Stadium than Rivers is.
I'm not sure if you are following, its the fact that Rivers will probably be able to put up better numbers because hes not playing half his games in Giants Stadium.
No, I am following just fine. His point was that Rivers specifically was not a good fit in Giants stadium, because he "floats his deep balls" and would have to work with a "vertical playbook". They (his deepballs) are apparently all "based on timing and floated" and this essentially would eliminate any sort of success for Rivers. Which all implies that Eli does not have similar problems.

My belief = a good QB will put up good numbers regardless of where he plays. I would say Buffalo is a very harsh enviornment for QB's but it didn't stop Jim Kelly from becoming a hall of famer.

If Rivers played in Giants Stadium I believe he would have more success than Eli because I believe Rivers is a better player.
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Old 11-20-2006, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
Wow i started a pretty nice thread. And it doesn't seem to be going away any time soon. But, if Eli Manning puts up 4 TDs and 350 yard tonight (i'm not saying... i'm just saying) i'm going to lobby to have this thread closed.
One good game doesn't make you better than another player. Also I think most non-giant fans would have Eli last out of the 3.
Yeah cause Roethlisberger's 12:17 TD:INT ratio is real impressive. :roll:
Eli Manning is a Probowler. Mainly because McNabb is out and Favre got nicked up.
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Old 11-20-2006, 07:14 PM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
Wow i started a pretty nice thread. And it doesn't seem to be going away any time soon. But, if Eli Manning puts up 4 TDs and 350 yard tonight (i'm not saying... i'm just saying) i'm going to lobby to have this thread closed.
One good game doesn't make you better than another player. Also I think most non-giant fans would have Eli last out of the 3.
Yeah cause Roethlisberger's 12:17 TD:INT ratio is real impressive. :roll:
Eli Manning is a Probowler. Mainly because McNabb is out and Favre got nicked up.
Ben is having a down year, his first two years he was stellar, unlike Eli's first year. As far as the Pro Bowl, I will name 3 QB's in the NFC that deserve it more than Eli very quickly, not in any order: Brees, Bulger and Delhomme. That was easy.
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Old 11-20-2006, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
Wow i started a pretty nice thread. And it doesn't seem to be going away any time soon. But, if Eli Manning puts up 4 TDs and 350 yard tonight (i'm not saying... i'm just saying) i'm going to lobby to have this thread closed.
One good game doesn't make you better than another player. Also I think most non-giant fans would have Eli last out of the 3.
Yeah cause Roethlisberger's 12:17 TD:INT ratio is real impressive. :roll:
Eli Manning is a Probowler. Mainly because McNabb is out and Favre got nicked up.
Sure, pick this season...

Last playoffs... 7 tds 0 INTs vs Elis 3 INTs?

It would take Bens first bad season of 3 for eli to have better stats then him...

12:17 this season...

17:9 last vs 24:17
17:11 first season vs 6:9 Elis first season?
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Old 11-20-2006, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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this thread makes my head hurt. it's the same bitching and argument every farking post. so here's a synopsis:

Ben - Played great his first two years so don't knock him for having an off-year now. His play helped get the Steelers to the Super Bowl where he sucked

Eli - umm He has a good pedigree, and, umm, is the best of the three to play in Giants stadium. Oh, and he won a division title. And his last name is Manning. He's also gotten better statistically each of his first three years.

Philip - Good start to his season but hasn't proven anything when it mattered. Best straight up stats this year among the three.

So, Ben is in a Junior slump, Eli is getting progressively better, and Philip is playing great until he has a bad game and everyone jumps off his bandwagon.

Does this sum up everything or did I leave something out?
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Old 11-20-2006, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Concord83
this thread makes my head hurt. it's the same bitching and argument every farking post. so here's a synopsis:

Ben - Played great his first two years so don't knock him for having an off-year now. His play helped get the Steelers to the Super Bowl where he sucked

Eli - umm He has a good pedigree, and, umm, is the best of the three to play in Giants stadium. Oh, and he won a division title. And his last name is Manning. He's also gotten better statistically each of his first three years.

Philip - Good start to his season but hasn't proven anything when it mattered. Best straight up stats this year among the three.

So, Ben is in a Junior slump, Eli is getting progressively better, and Philip is playing great until he has a bad game and everyone jumps off his bandwagon.

Does this sum up everything or did I leave something out?
Thats pretty much it. Too bad no one understands it.
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Old 11-20-2006, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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I would take Eli Manning going into the draft and now. I mean, he is the son and brother of two fantastic quarterbacks. His college stats weren't shocking, but he was on a pretty crappy team and made it a little better. He sure wasn't playing for the Vols like his big brother. His career stats at Ole Miss:

2000: 16/33 170 0 1
2001: 258/408 2948 31 9
2002: 279/481 3401 21 15
2003: 275/441 3600 29 10
Total: 829/1363 10119 81 35

That isn't too bad for a college player, it wasn't really his stats that allowed him to be the first overall player though, it was intelligence, mechanics, work ethic, potential and his great stats. I mean a 60 percent completion percentage in college isn't fantastic for a number one overall selection.

In the NFL he has also done well up to this point. He is not to the level that his brother was at at this point is his career, but few are, well, maybe no one ever actually.

In the NFL his stats are:

2004: 95/197 1043 6 9
2005: 294/557 3762 24 17
2006: 174/293 1972 15 11
Total: 563/1047 6777 45 37

Now those stats don't really look great, but he has actually improved a lot in his decision making since he took over for Kurt Warner in 2004. He only completes 54 percent of his passes right now, but that too has increased in the past 3 years from 48.2% to 52.8% to 59.4% right now, only a little below what he was completing against much worse college competition. I think it is safe to say that a 60% completion percentage season isn't far away for the young Manning.

Eli Manning is steadily improving as a passer in the NFL and he is going to benefit a lot next year when he has a great deep threat in Sinorice Moss to get his touchdowns up a little. Losing his backfield check down will probably hurt, but Brandon Jacobs presence in the running game will scare a lot more defenders than Tiki does who is 50 pounds lighter than Jacobs. If you gave LT to the Giants I think that Eli would be having a better year right now and so would the Giants as a team.

Eli Manning will continue to improve his game by studying and training with his big brother Peyton in the off season. I think that Eli is the best quarterback of the three 2004 first round quarterbacks. We don't really count J.P. Losman do we?
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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If MNF keeps going on like it is Manning will have had one horrible day. He has looked horrible so far.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Concord83
this thread makes my head hurt. it's the same bitching and argument every farking post. so here's a synopsis:

Ben - Played great his first two years so don't knock him for having an off-year now. His play helped get the Steelers to the Super Bowl where he sucked

Eli - umm He has a good pedigree, and, umm, is the best of the three to play in Giants stadium. Oh, and he won a division title. And his last name is Manning. He's also gotten better statistically each of his first three years.

Philip - Good start to his season but hasn't proven anything when it mattered. Best straight up stats this year among the three.

So, Ben is in a Junior slump, Eli is getting progressively better, and Philip is playing great until he has a bad game and everyone jumps off his bandwagon.

Does this sum up everything or did I leave something out?
Those are my thoughts summed up.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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BUMP for anti-Eli trash talk.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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Wasn't that a wonderful throw.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Well, half way through this game, it is obvious that by basing Eli Manning's performance on only this game, he is easily the best to ever play the game.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:58 PM    (permalink
 
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Well, half way through this game, it is obvious that by basing Eli Manning's performance on only this game, he is easily the best to ever play the game.
Your avy is way too big.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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Well, half way through this game, it is obvious that by basing Eli Manning's performance on only this game, he is easily the best to ever play the game.
Your avy is way too big.
So is Leonard Davis.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:59 PM    (permalink
 
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Well, half way through this game, it is obvious that by basing Eli Manning's performance on only this game, he is easily the best to ever play the game.
Your avy is way too big.
So is Leonard Davis.
ok? :?
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Old 11-20-2006, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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Eli is terrible....
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Old 11-20-2006, 10:38 PM    (permalink
Concord83
 
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man, i don't care what team you pull for, eli is horrible. there isn't any two ways about that. he has the worst "presence" about him i've ever seen from a starting QB. he always has his head down, he's never fired up. i just don't see how any offense can get into the game with him at the helm.
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