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Old 10-11-2006, 09:08 PM    (permalink
ricky bobby
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal
In the end it is winning that matters and not stats. We'll see what QB leads his team to the most success.

As of now, I'll take the guy witha 5-1 playoff record and a ring over a guy that hasn't ever won , or scored a point in, a playoff game.
The steelers would have won that super bowl without ben. Don't bother arguing against that one.
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal
In the end it is winning that matters and not stats. We'll see what QB leads his team to the most success.

As of now, I'll take the guy witha 5-1 playoff record and a ring over a guy that hasn't ever won , or scored a point in, a playoff game.
The steelers would have won that super bowl without ben. Don't bother arguing against that one.
They woulden't even have gotten to the postseason last year without him. They were one game away from not making it, and when Ben was out last year pretty sure they went something like 0-3. Don't even bother arguing against that one? Did you evne watch any steeler games last year?
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:18 PM    (permalink
Basileus777
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal
In the end it is winning that matters and not stats. We'll see what QB leads his team to the most success.

As of now, I'll take the guy witha 5-1 playoff record and a ring over a guy that hasn't ever won , or scored a point in, a playoff game.
The steelers might have had a losing record without ben. Don't bother arguing against that one.
Fixed your post.
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:22 PM    (permalink
ricky bobby
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Originally Posted by Basileus777
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal
In the end it is winning that matters and not stats. We'll see what QB leads his team to the most success.

As of now, I'll take the guy witha 5-1 playoff record and a ring over a guy that hasn't ever won , or scored a point in, a playoff game.
The steelers might have had a losing record without ben. Don't bother arguing against that one.
Fixed your post.
Hey, who has more TDs this season, ben or his backup?
Answer: his backup.
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal
In the end it is winning that matters and not stats. We'll see what QB leads his team to the most success.

As of now, I'll take the guy witha 5-1 playoff record and a ring over a guy that hasn't ever won , or scored a point in, a playoff game.
The steelers might have had a losing record without ben. Don't bother arguing against that one.
Fixed your post.
Hey, who has more TDs this season, ben or his backup?
Answer: his backup.
Hey, what year did the Steelers win the Superbowl? Oh wait, that was last year, before Ben got hurt and started playing like crap. Wasn't that the same year that they struggled when Ben was injured and were a completely different team with him? Didn't their running game also struggle in two road playoff games and Ben had to shoulder the offense for them to win?
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:29 PM    (permalink
ricky bobby
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Hey, what year did the Steelers win the Superbowl? Oh wait, that was last year, before Ben got hurt and started playing like crap. Wasn't that the same year that they struggled when Ben was injured and were a completely different team with him?
hey, welcome to 2006. 2005 was last year. Why don't we look at the most relevant statistics, this years.
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
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Hey, what year did the Steelers win the Superbowl? Oh wait, that was last year, before Ben got hurt and started playing like crap. Wasn't that the same year that they struggled when Ben was injured and were a completely different team with him?
hey, welcome to 2006. 2005 was last year. Why don't we look at the most relevant statistics, this years.
When one is talking about whether the Steelers would have won the Superbowl last year without Ben, last years stats are relevant. Sorry.
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
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I'll take Ben. Sure its me being a homer but look at the way he led us through the playoffs last season. He did alot more than just "manage" games in the playoffs. He single handedly took us to the superbowl. I'll take a superbowl win over a stat record any day.
Two things.

1-Be honest with yourself. Do you really believe that Ben single handeldly took you to the Super Bowl?

2-Would you take Trent Dilfer, Kurt Warner, Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson...etc over Dan Marino because of a ring?
Yes. I completely believe that Ben made th is team what it was last year. He played great games in the playoffs. Against Denver and Indy he was great putting points on the board early. I don't think Rivers or Manning would have been able to do what Ben did last post season.

And to your question, No I would take Marino. But to be fair, Ben is better than all of those guys and Manning and Rivers will never be as good as Marino.
Ben has not done anything yet to prove he will be a better player than Warner and Simms were.
Going to the AFC Championship in his first two seasons is nothing then right. How bout ROTY. Fact is Ben has now played two very good seasons and has a great career ahead on him.

The thought of him being a fluke was acceptable after one good year but after playing good his first two seasons its pretty obivous he will be a great QB for along time. Sure he is in s lump right now but you can't expect him to stay there with the way he has played his first two years.
The thought of him being a fluke is perfectly acceptable after watching what happens when the Steelers open up the offense for him and he is forced to pass the ball the same amount of times as normal QBs. Difference so far is Ben was drafted onto an already great team. Where most young QBs don't have that luxury, they are forced to take lumps while their team improves.

Ben and Simms are almost polar opposites to me. Simms had probably the greatest single Super Bowl performance for a winning QB, while Ben had the worst.
I love how everyone thinks Ben was put ona superbowl calibur team. The Steelers were 6-10 the year they drafted Ben and they didn't make any huge improvements other than drafting Ben. Once they added Ben they went to 15-1. He wasn't just put on a great team. He is what made the team good.
It is actually pretty pathetic that I know your team better than you! Their was a huge move made that offseason. Getting rid of Tim Lewis and bringing in Dick LeBeau. That was far bigger than bringing in Ben. Once Dick got there that defense became one of the best in the league. Team that with a running game that was always there, and you can just add in an adequate QB to not lose games for you.
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Basileus777
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
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Hey, what year did the Steelers win the Superbowl? Oh wait, that was last year, before Ben got hurt and started playing like crap. Wasn't that the same year that they struggled when Ben was injured and were a completely different team with him?
hey, welcome to 2006. 2005 was last year. Why don't we look at the most relevant statistics, this years.
When one is talking about whether the Steelers would have won the Superbowl last year without Ben, last years stats are relevant. Sorry.

last years stats do matter. you cant just base everything on the few games he has played this year.
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
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Originally Posted by Basileus777
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
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Hey, what year did the Steelers win the Superbowl? Oh wait, that was last year, before Ben got hurt and started playing like crap. Wasn't that the same year that they struggled when Ben was injured and were a completely different team with him?
hey, welcome to 2006. 2005 was last year. Why don't we look at the most relevant statistics, this years.
When one is talking about whether the Steelers would have won the Superbowl last year without Ben, last years stats are relevant. Sorry.

last years stats do matter. you cant just base everything on the few games he has played this year.
You can in a way because this season the Steelers "opened up" the offense more for him and are just now allowing him to do more things that most NFL QBs do. For starters throwing more than 18 times a game. He has consistently shown in his career that when he has to throw the ball the amount of times most QBs have to, he is not very succesful.
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
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Originally Posted by Basileus777
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
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Hey, what year did the Steelers win the Superbowl? Oh wait, that was last year, before Ben got hurt and started playing like crap. Wasn't that the same year that they struggled when Ben was injured and were a completely different team with him?
hey, welcome to 2006. 2005 was last year. Why don't we look at the most relevant statistics, this years.
When one is talking about whether the Steelers would have won the Superbowl last year without Ben, last years stats are relevant. Sorry.

last years stats do matter. you cant just base everything on the few games he has played this year.
Leave it to Windy to bring some reason to the debate.
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:41 PM    (permalink
ricky bobby
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
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Hey, what year did the Steelers win the Superbowl? Oh wait, that was last year, before Ben got hurt and started playing like crap. Wasn't that the same year that they struggled when Ben was injured and were a completely different team with him?
hey, welcome to 2006. 2005 was last year. Why don't we look at the most relevant statistics, this years.
When one is talking about whether the Steelers would have won the Superbowl last year without Ben, last years stats are relevant. Sorry.
I didn't bring the super bowl up. Whoever it is that voted for Ben came on here and claimed that because Ben won a superbowl, he is better than eli and rivers. I argued that his Superbowl win was irrelevant in case you didn't notice. :P
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
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Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
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Originally Posted by Basileus777
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
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Hey, what year did the Steelers win the Superbowl? Oh wait, that was last year, before Ben got hurt and started playing like crap. Wasn't that the same year that they struggled when Ben was injured and were a completely different team with him?
hey, welcome to 2006. 2005 was last year. Why don't we look at the most relevant statistics, this years.
When one is talking about whether the Steelers would have won the Superbowl last year without Ben, last years stats are relevant. Sorry.

last years stats do matter. you cant just base everything on the few games he has played this year.
You can in a way because this season the Steelers "opened up" the offense more for him and are just now allowing him to do more things that most NFL QBs do. For starters throwing more than 18 times a game. He has consistently shown in his career that when he has to throw the ball the amount of times most QBs have to, he is not very succesful.

lets just call it even and meet up at ihop for a nice pancake dinner
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Can I come too Windy?
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:55 AM    (permalink
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In the end it is winning that matters and not stats. We'll see what QB leads his team to the most success.

As of now, I'll take the guy witha 5-1 playoff record and a ring over a guy that hasn't ever won , or scored a point in, a playoff game.
The steelers would have won that super bowl without ben. Don't bother arguing against that one.
Lets see.

In 2003 the Steelers went 6-10 and the only major offseason acquisition they got was Ben.

In 2004 they went 15-1 and wen to the AFC Championship.
In 2005 Ben dominated in the playoffs to take this team to the superbowl.

I don't even feel like making you look like an idiot for a comment like that. Anyone with any knowledge off football would tell you the Steelers would have been a .500 team or worse had Maddox or Batch started for us last season.
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Old 10-12-2006, 07:22 AM    (permalink
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In the end it is winning that matters and not stats. We'll see what QB leads his team to the most success.

As of now, I'll take the guy witha 5-1 playoff record and a ring over a guy that hasn't ever won , or scored a point in, a playoff game.
The steelers would have won that super bowl without ben. Don't bother arguing against that one.
Lets see.

In 2003 the Steelers went 6-10 and the only major offseason acquisition they got was Ben.

In 2004 they went 15-1 and wen to the AFC Championship.
In 2005 Ben dominated in the playoffs to take this team to the superbowl.

I don't even feel like making you look like an idiot for a comment like that. Anyone with any knowledge off football would tell you the Steelers would have been a .500 team or worse had Maddox or Batch started for us last season.
Like I said before they changed D coordinators the year they got Ben. That move was much bigger than bringing in Roethlisberger.
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Old 10-12-2006, 07:34 AM    (permalink
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Alright lets wrap this up.

I would rather have Eli because
1. He has proven his team can rely on him to win a game once in a while and that he can air it out with the best of them (McNabb)
2. This is not his first season starting, we have something to look back at, and he improved his one weakness from last year- Completion %.

Why i wouldn't want Rivers
1. He has a ton of talent around him similar to Big Ben in his first season, so he hasn't been in any pressure situations, where he must air it out to win a game
2. He's only played 5 games. The verdict is still out
3. He still has that unorthodox side armed, quarter armed delivery.

Why i wouldn't want Big Ben
1. Sure he won a superbowl, but instead of improving like Eli in his carear, he has gotten progressively worse.
2. Manager of the game. Any QB in the league could do better than him running that offense.
3. His off-field issues seem to have affected him greatly.
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Old 10-12-2006, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Ben is playing horrible this year, but so is the rest of the team on offense. The wide recieving core is the worst in the league they aren't getting open, and when they get open they drop passes. The o-line is blocking poorly. Everything is just going wrong. Also Eli and Philip have better supporting casts then Ben.

That being said there is no excuse for Ben's play this year. He is throwing the same ints over and over again. But I don't think that can argue that he played great against Denver and Indy in the playoffs. However he has regressed to the point that he is playing like rookie. I'm still not ready to give up on him, its only his third year. If I had to start a franchise from scratch I might consider taking Ben over Eli and Philip just because of his ability to create something out of nothing. Although if I had to sign one of the guys as as a free agent I would probly grab Philip in a heart beat if I a had a good team to but around him. Rivers really impressed me against the steelers, but we did stop sending our rush in the second half. Eventhough I respect what Ben has done for the steelers franchise the NFL litterally changes dailey if your not getting better your regressing. In many ways your only as good as your last game I know thats sort sided but in Ben's case he hasn't played good football in 4 straight games. At this point this is how I see it.......but it could changed by mid season or next year.
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Old 10-12-2006, 11:33 AM    (permalink
 
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Giants fans are really homers. Holy crap, did you guys actually watch the playoffs last year? Your great Eli choked big time, while Ben had some very nice stats. Sure he had a bad superbowl, but if you watched it, he made plays when they counted. He has had a rough off season and has stared slow so far, but I guarantee, he will be back. Also I would say the giants have had alot better running game than the Steelers have had the last few years. Most of your arguments amount to nothing. Both are going to have nice careers, but right now, one qb has made a positive mark in the playoffw, and the other hasn't. Winning is what matters. So far, one has alot better winning % than the other.
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Old 10-12-2006, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Giants fans are really homers. Holy crap, did you guys actually watch the playoffs last year? Your great Eli choked big time, while Ben had some very nice stats. Sure he had a bad superbowl, but if you watched it, he made plays when they counted. He has had a rough off season and has stared slow so far, but I guarantee, he will be back. Also I would say the giants have had alot better running game than the Steelers have had the last few years. Most of your arguments amount to nothing. Both are going to have nice careers, but right now, one qb has made a positive mark in the playoffw, and the other hasn't. Winning is what matters. So far, one has alot better winning % than the other.
Seriously...we're the homers? That was ridiculous. The Steelers had one of the best run games of the entire league the past 2 years. After I read that, that completely negates any argument you tried to put forth.

And yeah, us Giants fans are talking about Eli now...but are we any worse than everyone here jumping on the Rivers bandwagon after 4 games, and after 1 game of over 30 throws? Look at the poll, its ridiculous. I can't believe how many people hopped on the bandwagon. The same thing happened last year with Ben, now the same people are ripping him. Now everyone is on the Rivers bandwagon and watch, sooner or later the same people are gonna rip him.

I understand alot of people hate Eli for what he did in the draft, but I think also that everyone here is just trying to find a new excuse to discredit him. Now that his "accuracy" issues can't be used, now the Rivers bandwagon is a new way for people to stick it to him. Let the haters hate, the games will prove whos the best.

And seriously, the Panthers game...you cannot compare our team's talent that year at that time to the Steelers. Day and night difference.
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Old 10-12-2006, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Ben is playing horrible this year, but so is the rest of the team on offense. The wide recieving core is the worst in the league they aren't getting open, and when they get open they drop passes. The o-line is blocking poorly. Everything is just going wrong. Also Eli and Philip have better supporting casts then Ben.

That being said there is no excuse for Ben's play this year. He is throwing the same ints over and over again. But I don't think that can argue that he played great against Denver and Indy in the playoffs. However he has regressed to the point that he is playing like rookie. I'm still not ready to give up on him, its only his third year. If I had to start a franchise from scratch I might consider taking Ben over Eli and Philip just because of his ability to create something out of nothing. Although if I had to sign one of the guys as as a free agent I would probly grab Philip in a heart beat if I a had a good team to but around him. Rivers really impressed me against the steelers, but we did stop sending our rush in the second half. Eventhough I respect what Ben has done for the steelers franchise the NFL litterally changes dailey if your not getting better your regressing. In many ways your only as good as your last game I know thats sort sided but in Ben's case he hasn't played good football in 4 straight games. At this point this is how I see it.......but it could changed by mid season or next year.
1.River
2.Manning
3.BEN
Get this through your head.

THE STEELERS DO NOT HAVE THE WORST WR CORE IN THE NFL!!!!

I wouldn't even think about giving up on Ben yet, he is still a good QB with a very good future. He just got a tad overrated by banwagoners and his place as a young QB in the NFL are becoming realized. The question now is...can he adjust to the adjustments made against him in the way Eli has done. We'll have to sit back, wait, and see.
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Old 10-12-2006, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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"Seriously...we're the homers? That was ridiculous. The Steelers had one of the best run games of the entire league the past 2 years. After I read that, that completely negates any argument you tried to put forth."


We had a great dominating line in 2004. Not so much in 05. And line has picked up thier iconsistant play this year. If you watched the playoffs we needed to pass to set up the run.
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Old 10-12-2006, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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[quote="Number 10"][quote="DeathbyStat"]Ben is playing horrible this year, but so is the rest of the team on offense. The wide recieving core is the worst in the league they aren't getting open, and when they get open they drop passes. The o-line is blocking poorly. Everything is just going wrong. Also Eli and Philip have better supporting casts then Ben.

Are wides outs are awfull. Hines is a quasi number 1. THe rest of the wide outs are number 3s right now at best. Cedrick Wilson blows he looks for pass interference calls before the ball even reaches him. Nate Washington is very iconsistent. Santonio is awfull and will surely be a bust.
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