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Old 10-12-2006, 06:20 PM    (permalink
ricky bobby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
you GUYS WANTS FEATURE BACKS?


I'll trade you


Courtney Anderson
Darnell Bing
Nnamdi Asomugha

for

Rich Seubert
Reggie Torbor
I'll take that trade. Torbor was being shopped around already and hasn't sniffed the field. Seubert is decent, but he's still a backup and he's aging (29 i think). Bing was what? a third rounder? Asomugha is a corner, i'm not sure how good, but he might be an upgrade. Courtney Anderson, i'm not familiar with.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:24 PM    (permalink
Windy
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Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
you GUYS WANTS FEATURE BACKS?


I'll trade you


Courtney Anderson
Darnell Bing
Nnamdi Asomugha

for

Rich Seubert
Reggie Torbor
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jk lol

i hope al isnt dumb enough to do that
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:25 PM    (permalink
cgf
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky bobby
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
you GUYS WANTS FEATURE BACKS?


I'll trade you


Courtney Anderson
Darnell Bing
Nnamdi Asomugha

for

Rich Seubert
Reggie Torbor
I'll take that trade. Torbor was being shopped around already and hasn't sniffed the field. Seubert is decent, but he's still a backup and he's aging (29 i think). Bing was what? a third rounder? Asomugha is a corner, i'm not sure how good, but he might be an upgrade. Courtney Anderson, i'm not familiar with.
Anderson is a worthless TE. Asomugha could help us as a NB, he;s very physical. But Bing doesn't give us too much. Unlike that Rich Seubert is a very quality OG/C backup who could start at C for us. And i like Torbor for no reason.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:26 PM    (permalink
Jughead10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
you GUYS WANTS FEATURE BACKS?


I'll trade you


Courtney Anderson
Darnell Bing
Nnamdi Asomugha

for

Rich Seubert
Reggie Torbor
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jk lol

i hope al isnt dumb enough to do that
Probably isn't that dumb. Although if Torbor and Seubert were rediculously fast for their position but still didn't know how to play he might trade for them.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:27 PM    (permalink
Jughead10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky bobby
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
you GUYS WANTS FEATURE BACKS?


I'll trade you


Courtney Anderson
Darnell Bing
Nnamdi Asomugha

for

Rich Seubert
Reggie Torbor
I'll take that trade. Torbor was being shopped around already and hasn't sniffed the field. Seubert is decent, but he's still a backup and he's aging (29 i think). Bing was what? a third rounder? Asomugha is a corner, i'm not sure how good, but he might be an upgrade. Courtney Anderson, i'm not familiar with.
Anderson is a worthless TE. Asomugha could help us as a NB, he;s very physical. But Bing doesn't give us too much. Unlike that Rich Seubert is a very quality OG/C backup who could start at C for us. And i like Torbor for no reason.
I'm still trying to figure out why Torbor has a spot on this team for no reason? Cause I can't think of a reason why he is here.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:28 PM    (permalink
cgf
 
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Cause i like him. I asked TC to keep him on the roster and remind him what a beast pass rusher he was in college and so he's trying to remind him.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:29 PM    (permalink
Windy
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I will offer you this:



Tommy Kelly
Barry Sims

for

Justin Tuck
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:33 PM    (permalink
cgf
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
I will offer you this:



Tommy Kelly
Barry Sims

for

Justin Tuck
I'd like to see Kelly in a giants uniform, but not at that price.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
2 points I want to make.

1st, the run game of the Giants. It was very inconsistent. While total yards might be similar, anyone who watched the Giants consistently would see that we were a poor team when it comes to running for average. Tiki would get 0,0,2,1, 55. Thats how our run game was. ALSO, we set up the run with the pass, an entirely different system to the Steelers. We came out with 3 WRs, and ran on nickel defenses. It was up to Eli to keep the defense honest so our run game can run through smaller fronts.

The Steelers ran for average, and ran first and passed 2nd. Totally different system with totally different responsibilities. This is an example of when numbers can be very deceiving.

2. You want to compare Eli in his 2nd year to Ben. Well...if you look at their regular seasons, Eli in fact had a better on statistically. But forget statistics. Ben in his 2nd year already had playoff experience. That goes a long way when making it to the playoffs a 2nd time. Whos to say that if Pitt drafted Eli that he wouldnt have been playing in the playoffs his rookie year as well? You cannot compare them that way, theres too many X factors.

Rex Grossman lost his first playoff game remember. Does that mean that Grossman would be unable to do what Ben did? Look at this year, that answers your question right there. Ben "managed" his team.

You want to talk about his success in the playoffs? Ok, lets talk about it. When did he have his success? In the first quarter mostly. Why? Because teams stacked the box with 8, so when he did PA pass, he had his first read open 80% of the time. Does that make him Elway? Didn't think so.

What happened in those playoff games in the 2nd half when teams respected the pass more? Ben fell off. Just goes to show you that when you put the game in his hands, he loses it moreso than wins it.
How to put this sensitively, I . . . want to plow you.
I can only dream to be half the man you are cgf...you're like Jordan and Im Tony Kukoc.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:43 PM    (permalink
cgf
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
2 points I want to make.

1st, the run game of the Giants. It was very inconsistent. While total yards might be similar, anyone who watched the Giants consistently would see that we were a poor team when it comes to running for average. Tiki would get 0,0,2,1, 55. Thats how our run game was. ALSO, we set up the run with the pass, an entirely different system to the Steelers. We came out with 3 WRs, and ran on nickel defenses. It was up to Eli to keep the defense honest so our run game can run through smaller fronts.

The Steelers ran for average, and ran first and passed 2nd. Totally different system with totally different responsibilities. This is an example of when numbers can be very deceiving.

2. You want to compare Eli in his 2nd year to Ben. Well...if you look at their regular seasons, Eli in fact had a better on statistically. But forget statistics. Ben in his 2nd year already had playoff experience. That goes a long way when making it to the playoffs a 2nd time. Whos to say that if Pitt drafted Eli that he wouldnt have been playing in the playoffs his rookie year as well? You cannot compare them that way, theres too many X factors.

Rex Grossman lost his first playoff game remember. Does that mean that Grossman would be unable to do what Ben did? Look at this year, that answers your question right there. Ben "managed" his team.

You want to talk about his success in the playoffs? Ok, lets talk about it. When did he have his success? In the first quarter mostly. Why? Because teams stacked the box with 8, so when he did PA pass, he had his first read open 80% of the time. Does that make him Elway? Didn't think so.

What happened in those playoff games in the 2nd half when teams respected the pass more? Ben fell off. Just goes to show you that when you put the game in his hands, he loses it moreso than wins it.
How to put this sensitively, I . . . want to plow you.
I can only dream to be half the man you are cgf...you're like Jordan and Im Tony Kukoc.
psh, i'm so much better than jordan, he can't even hit a fastball.
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Old 10-12-2006, 07:01 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim3031
Ben Roethlisberger last year had more attempts passing on first down than he did on 2nd and 3rd. He also has a passer rating of 119. The steelers tendencies last year was to put up a score fast and hard, then grind the ball out on the ground to preserve victory. This conception that the steelers just run the ball twice then threw once is just incorrect.
Which only adds to inflating his numbers. On first down, he sees 8 man fronts 95% of the time, so if he throws on 1st, he has at least 3 targets going against 3 DBs, which means his hot read tends to be open on 1st down almost all the time. 1st down would be actually ideal for him because of the fronts he sees.

Quote:
If all he did was "manage" his team then how have the Steeler, who have been stuck with mediocrity at the QB position for years, only start winning like mad when Ben came into town. And don't say that it's because their defense and running game was better. That's just not true.
Tommy Maddox isn't even a 2nd string qb. Stewart isn't even in the league anymore. Those are the guys who played before him and for him while he was hurt. If they had a competent backup that stat would be meaningless. Pittsburgh happened to have arguably the worst qb in the league for the 6 years prior to Ben, and Maddox as a backup to Ben is like having no qb at all. And show me a team that wins most of its games with its backup qb for any team in the league anyway. Again, misleading stat.

Quote:
Loses it more so than he wins? He's lost one playoff game in his career. Last I checked he played alright in Denver when the Steelers couldn't run the ball at all. Including the second half.
You give him credit for "winning" games he didn't really win. Did he "win" against the Jets in the playoffs? He did everything in his power to lose that game, he's lucky his team bailed him out. He did not "win" against the Seahawks, he played horriblely. The steelers won those games despite him, not because of him. Even his great games against Indy and Denver, he only played well when he got the oppurtunity to throw against 8 man fronts. When he was against nickel defenses, he faltered.

Having that said, Im actually one of the few in this thread trying to support him. Im just giving you counterarguments because alot of what youre saying is misleading. I do agree that Ben is getting knocked on a little too much in this thread though.
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Old 10-12-2006, 07:04 PM    (permalink
cgf
 
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Seriously, the steelers made a playoff run with both Maddox and stewart at QB, two of the worst QBs to start ever, so its expected that they be better with a semi-compitent QB.
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Old 10-15-2006, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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All three looked pretty solid today (Phil and Big Ben looking the best).

Overall, it is looking like a great draft for QBs
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Old 10-15-2006, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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i wouldnt mind having any of those 3 guys, but im an eli guy... love his arm and ability to play
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Old 10-15-2006, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Rivers has thrown five less picks than Ben and Manning a piece, so I'd go with him. He isn't reckless with the football.
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Old 10-15-2006, 07:22 PM    (permalink
 
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Nice to see, Ben shutting all you haters up. Funny how you all want to be the first to make mad monkey love to Eli and want to just make up excuses for Bens success in his young career. Just goes to show, Ben can lead a team, wether you want to admit it or not. Now of course, 1 game doesn't mean he won't make mistakes this season, but to call for his benching, and say he is overrated is just plain stupid. He is just as valuable to his team, as any other qb in the league.
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Old 10-15-2006, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by snortie
Nice to see, Ben shutting all you haters up. Funny how you all want to be the first to make mad monkey love to Eli and want to just make up excuses for Bens success in his young career. Just goes to show, Ben can lead a team, wether you want to admit it or not. Now of course, 1 game doesn't mean he won't make mistakes this season, but to call for his benching, and say he is overrated is just plain stupid. He is just as valuable to his team, as any other qb in the league.
Peyton Manning? Tom Brady? Donovan McNabb? I actually voted for Big Ben, but to say that people are being stupid and then make a statement like that is pretty foolish.
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Old 10-15-2006, 07:34 PM    (permalink
 
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How do you figure? Ben is the leader on that offense. If he is out for the season, there is no way the Steelers win many games. Last year was proof, when he was out.
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Old 10-15-2006, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by snortie
How do you figure? Ben is the leader on that offense. If he is out for the season, there is no way the Steelers win many games. Last year was proof, when he was out.
If Peyton Manning is hurt the Colts go from a 13-3 team to a 2-14 team. If Big Ben is hurt the Steelers go from an 11-5 team to a 7-9 team.
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Old 10-15-2006, 07:42 PM    (permalink
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
Quote:
Originally Posted by snortie
How do you figure? Ben is the leader on that offense. If he is out for the season, there is no way the Steelers win many games. Last year was proof, when he was out.
If Peyton Manning is hurt the Colts go from a 13-3 team to a 2-14 team. If Big Ben is hurt the Steelers go from an 11-5 team to a 7-9 team.
Either way, the teams don't make the playoffs. The colts would still win 7 games. They have such an easy schedule and division.
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Old 10-15-2006, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snortie
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by snortie
How do you figure? Ben is the leader on that offense. If he is out for the season, there is no way the Steelers win many games. Last year was proof, when he was out.
If Peyton Manning is hurt the Colts go from a 13-3 team to a 2-14 team. If Big Ben is hurt the Steelers go from an 11-5 team to a 7-9 team.
Either way, the teams don't make the playoffs. The colts would still win 7 games. They have such an easy schedule and division.

Are you familiar with the epic pit of suckiness that is Jim Sorgi?
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Old 10-15-2006, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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As for this poll, im not sure whats more suprising, the fact that Eli isnt running away with it, or the fact that 15 people actually voted for Ben Roethlisburger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal
Yes. I completely believe that Ben made this team what it was last year. He played great games in the playoffs. Against Denver and Indy he was great putting points on the board early. I don't think Rivers or Manning would have been able to do what Ben did last post season.
You're right. Ben was money in the super bowl, they couldnt of done it without him!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 10
You just called Santonnio Holmes a bust after 4 games. :roll:

Anything to make yourself look right, eh?
Agreed, calling someone a bust after 4 games is almost as stupid as calling someone a reach the day after the draft.
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Old 10-15-2006, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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did eli play well today?
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Old 10-15-2006, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
did eli play well today?
not really. 17-30 180 2 Tds and 2 ints, Rivers is better and I have said it since there college days. They will both be amazing down the road.
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Old 10-15-2006, 10:43 PM    (permalink
Windy
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,708
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Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.Windy is so money.
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i agree rivers is better than eli
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