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Old 04-29-2007, 08:51 PM    (permalink
thule
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So harsh....we have 4 OLBs....Ellis is in his contract year and coming off an ACL injury. Burnett has always played Ware's backup and gets about 50% of the snaps on defense in non-base defenses. Spencer will give us insurance if Ellis isn't back healthy enough...and keep Ellis fresh...not bad.

We have Hoyte who is a project who can't catch..and constantly missed blocks in the hole..sure if he hits you your done...but he had more than his fair share of wiffs. Polite is just the opposite...Parcells kept trying to get him at TE...because he just doesn't have the base to block in the hole our out in space...he had great hands...but not the blocker that is needed for Garrett's scheme. Got to give props...Dallas went out and got a guy who will fit their scheme...I don't see how that is a F.
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Old 04-29-2007, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Well, I am not as bullish on this draft as others. Here is my read

Overall Draft: C -- We came into the draft in need of NT, WR, DB and OL and we only addressed OL in any serious form.

Spencer: B -- Best rusher in the draft and BBD is right. WOLB and Ware moves to his natural SOLB. Unfortunately this gives us 5 starting OLB with at least two of them devaluing like a Yugo fresh out of the dealer lot.

Marten: B+ -- A bit of a stretch but gives us a future RT if he works hard. Like his nastiness.

Free: B -- Good value pick. Like the potential with our three developmental Tackle. McQuistan, Free adn Marten.

Stanbeck: F -- Look like a Jerry wanna Antwan Randle EL move. Not a Pro QB.

Nick Folk: F -- Kicker with accuracy issues of a tee. Great.

Deon Anderson: F -- 3 full backs. Great. We just tendered Polite and have Hoyt.

Courtney Brown: B -- Good value.

Alan Ball: F -- Maybe he can serve lunch during training camp and eat some food.


To me there are two silver lingings to this draft which I think Jerry completely messed up after the trade. 1) Ware goes to natural position which mean Bradie hits the pines if Carpenter can play like he did in Seattle. 2) Cleveland will suck next year and I prefer James Stewart to McFadden -- faster, more elusive, bettre pass catcher and bigger. Plays in a messed up system for a super star Tail Back. Reminds me of Barry Sanders with 40 extra pounds and hands to catch a pass.

This roster + picks has too many SS, too many OLB, too many FB, too many low potential CB and we did not solve WR, NT or Safety. Love our Tackle situation in terms of depth.

Kind of upset, don't think any player picked will make a meaningful contribution to the 07 team.

But just football......... G night.
Well said. Because we are going to get next year top 10 pick, I have to give them a C+, otherwise is a D.

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Old 04-30-2007, 07:00 AM    (permalink
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Grade D

Spencer: Nice Addition and much needed. Pasing up a blue chip QB when we do not have one might come back to haunt this team.....as well as Miami!

Hope they can turn the two firsts next year in for a franchise QB or RB. This team has neither.

But it dosent really matter because thanks to the Raiders they just handed another Superbowl Trophy to New England. With The off season moves and now Moss that team will not be stoped. Everyone take your hat off to an organization who really knows how to do the right things. I wish we could learn a thing or two from that team....sigh
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Old 04-30-2007, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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Grade D

Spencer: Nice Addition and much needed. Pasing up a blue chip QB when we do not have one might come back to haunt this team.....as well as Miami!

Hope they can turn the two firsts next year in for a franchise QB or RB. This team has neither.

But it dosent really matter because thanks to the Raiders they just handed another Superbowl Trophy to New England. With The off season moves and now Moss that team will not be stoped. Everyone take your hat off to an organization who really knows how to do the right things. I wish we could learn a thing or two from that team....sigh
You forgot to say how godly was Jimmy Johnson!
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Old 04-30-2007, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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You can't give Dallas any less than a B because they got the guy who they wanted in round 1 plus an extra round 1 pick for next year's very talented draft. That in itself warrants a B.

The rest of the draft was not that great. Below average quite honestly. But still, to get Spencer and a 1st for next year was great. Jerry did a poor job with the rest of his picks, but he made up for it early on. I'll give him a B after further evaluation.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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You can't give Dallas any less than a B because they got the guy who they wanted in round 1 plus an extra round 1 pick for next year's very talented draft. That in itself warrants a B.

The rest of the draft was not that great. Below average quite honestly. But still, to get Spencer and a 1st for next year was great. Jerry did a poor job with the rest of his picks, but he made up for it early on. I'll give him a B after further evaluation.
Don't you like the picks of Free and Marten?
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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Don't you like the picks of Free and Marten?
I like Marten, but I think they reached a little. I don't think they shouldve gotten Free, getting 2 guys at that position wasn't really necessary. Especially with the amount of money already invested in that oline.

Outside of Brown, I was not a big fan of any of these Tackles. Marten is serviceable, probably best suited at RT, but thats about it.

Crosby should have been picked. While some have him rated lower, most have him as the best kicker in the draft, and some projected him as a round 2 pick at one point. I think with Dallas's kicker situation, passing up on Crosby was a mistake.

They shouldve invested in a WR earlier as well. Im not too big on the QB they drafted.

But like I said, it was still a great draft for the simple fact that you have 2 first round picks in next year's draft, which should be an amazing draft class.

I know theres talks of trading both picks to move up, but honestly, with the depth in next year's draft, Dallas is much better off keeping both picks and getting 2 quality players opposed to 1.

Im sure drawing up mock drafts will be hella fun for all the Cowboy fans this upcoming year. Having 2 firsts is a draft geek's dream come true.
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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I like Marten, but I think they reached a little. I don't think they shouldve gotten Free, getting 2 guys at that position wasn't really necessary. Especially with the amount of money already invested in that oline.

Outside of Brown, I was not a big fan of any of these Tackles. Marten is serviceable, probably best suited at RT, but thats about it.

Crosby should have been picked. While some have him rated lower, most have him as the best kicker in the draft, and some projected him as a round 2 pick at one point. I think with Dallas's kicker situation, passing up on Crosby was a mistake.

They shouldve invested in a WR earlier as well. Im not too big on the QB they drafted.

But like I said, it was still a great draft for the simple fact that you have 2 first round picks in next year's draft, which should be an amazing draft class.

I know theres talks of trading both picks to move up, but honestly, with the depth in next year's draft, Dallas is much better off keeping both picks and getting 2 quality players opposed to 1.

Im sure drawing up mock drafts will be hella fun for all the Cowboy fans this upcoming year. Having 2 firsts is a draft geek's dream come true.
I normally agree with you BBD but to say we get a B because of next year's draft is a stretch. Next year's 1 is as yet to be a player. Who knows what that becomes. So, I just think the 1 is like saying "well we got an D" but I will give you and D+ cuz you may in the future do better on the test."

Not one player in this draft will play for the Cowboys in any meaningful way, including Spencer. If Wade does what I think he will the Front Seven will be much improved in pass rushing and the impact of a Rookie like Spencer will be minimal. Spencer was a luxury pick IMHO. AGAIN, he is the best rusher in the draft and he is a bette WOLB propsect than Ware. Ware is a much better SOLB and can actually cover a TE -- something Roy Williams can not do -- on first and second down.

The OL picks are good. Rather have my Tackle prospects than the Giants or any other team in the NFL. While Colombo and Flo are mediocre to say the least Free, Marten and McQuistan have talent. I think, baring injury, we have our answers at two key positions come 2008 and 2009.

The rest of the picks are pure garbage. Jones blew it on the WR front, the NT front and the DB front. We have not improved 1 bit in these positions since last year. Not 1.

We will continue to get killed covering Backs and TEs. If you spread the field on us and we don't get a sack we are still too slow in the middle of the field.

Carpenter will need to move inside which is another "developmental" year if you ask me plus you now verified Jones made a mistake with either Ayodele or James' contracts.

If Fergie goes down forget the season or one of the starting WR -- we are in deep pooh. Hurd and Crayton are not 1s. Austin could be put is raw. Pick a name NT is not ready unless we get someone off the waiver wire or get Kris Jenkins.

While last year's Cowboy draft may not have picked the best players b/c we went with Bill Guys (i.e., poor athletes for the picks) at least it made sense. Every pick made sense and you could see how they could help the team THAT YEAR.

This year, outside of Spencer as a third down guy, I see nothing of value to the 2007 team.

Grade D+ to C.
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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This year, outside of Spencer as a third down guy, I see nothing of value to the 2007 team.

Grade D+ to C.
I can't wait the day you will be forced to admit that you were wrong, because Spencer will start for us.

And you have always the same type of argument. Always. We're too slow, our Safeties are crappy, our OTs are crappy etc etc.

1. Hamlin is not a bad cover safety. He had a bad 2006 season, but before that he was regarded as a good cover safety.
2. Colombo had a great season for us, there's NO WAY you can say he wasn't good. And Flozell didn't have a great year, because he was incosistent. But he had like 8-9 great games. He was still recovering from an acl injury, I think this year he will play bettere.
3. Say what you want about Roy Williams but he's a true playmaker. If the pass rush will increase he will a lot of occasions to make big plays.
4. If Carpenter will play inside that doesn't mean tha it will another developmental year or so on. Carpenter practiced as both ILB and OLB for all of last year. He can make an impact from day 1. Dqwell Jackson played very good for the Browns last year, and he was a rookie with no experience in Crenell defense. And we can make the same examples for a lot of rookies.
And with Carpenter inside you won't be able to use the "we are too slow in the middle of the field" argument. Because Ayodele/James will be the run thumper (every 3-4 needs one) and Carpenter will play in a Donnie Edwards position.

About the NT. Tell me one guy we could have picked that could have make an impact. The only legit NT prospect was Soliai, and there were big question marks about him.
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Old 04-30-2007, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Hi Modano, I hope I am wrong but I don't think so. I said earlier let us talk in October. On your points

1. Hamlin is average. A better SS prospect. We have 5 SS types.
2. Colombo and Flo are fine. Mediocre means average. We are average.
3. Roy Williams a play maker? Occassionally, but more often than not a liability. As they say a broken clock is right twice a day. Playing "go-for-broke" may sometimes help Roy make a play but 2005 and 2006 have opened up my eyes to what he is. A huge mistake as a DB UNLESS he turns it around by reshaping his body and game. He gives up huge pass plays and is never in position to knock a ball down when playing man.
4A. Carpenter is a very talented player. I am sure he will excel at ILB eventually but if you care to notice his best game (Seattle) was at OLB. ILB is a hard position to "get" unless you invest serious "on field" time.
4B. Carpenter is no Edwards in coverage. Maybe Burnett can be.
5. Well NT would not have yielded a starter but a quality back-up with potential would be nice....... Soliai, Thomas, Tyler, even Branch would have been great in this draft and we could have grabbed any of them.
6. You have admitted Ayodele or James are a Jerry Jones bust special. Glad to hear it finally from a fan.
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Old 04-30-2007, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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I give us a C for this year at best.

I don't like Spencer nearly as much as guys here do. I think he's a good pass rusher but he's a bit stiff to make a seamless move to OLB. I think that Carpenter is a far better OLB than Spencer. Spencer will be the better pass rusher but Carpenter is a better all around player.

We did not address the secondary until late and unless Isiah makes the transition to WR as smoothly as the Cowboys hope (I don't think it will be, but I could be wrong) then the WR position received zero help in that area.

The other players are ok, but we didn't address the major issues that this team had going into the draft but we didn't reach either. So, I'll give us a C.

I do not think you can grade on a curve because we traded to get next year's 1st from Cleveland. You will grade that draft including the first round pick so you can't count that in your assessment for this year.
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Old 04-30-2007, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Agree on the analysis Thule. I was harsher on the grade becuase I felt there WERE GUYS THERE for Jones to improve the team this year. He just blew it.
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Old 04-30-2007, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Free was a great pick, I don't see how you guys are hating on that pick. With an NFL strength coach (his only knock is strength) he could be a quality LT. He was great value as well. Marten and Free give us some good felxibility and depth for the future. Jerry said in the draft wrap-up press conference that they are now starting to draft o-lineman higher so the o-line isn't terrible like it was from 1999-2005. He said they have now put a new emphasis on the o-line, and that is good, because o-line is the most important part of football. Our starters on the o-line are great, and now we got the depth behind them as well. I am really excited about this season. I expect no worse than atleast being in the NFC Title game.
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Old 04-30-2007, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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I give us a C for this year at best.

I don't like Spencer nearly as much as guys here do. I think he's a good pass rusher but he's a bit stiff to make a seamless move to OLB. I think that Carpenter is a far better OLB than Spencer. Spencer will be the better pass rusher but Carpenter is a better all around player.

We did not address the secondary until late and unless Isiah makes the transition to WR as smoothly as the Cowboys hope (I don't think it will be, but I could be wrong) then the WR position received zero help in that area.

The other players are ok, but we didn't address the major issues that this team had going into the draft but we didn't reach either. So, I'll give us a C.

I do not think you can grade on a curve because we traded to get next year's 1st from Cleveland. You will grade that draft including the first round pick so you can't count that in your assessment for this year.
That's a fair assessment considering how much you don't like the Spencer selection. I know you were anxious to draft a CB there. I guess from the sound of it, our front office liked Ross, Merriweather and Spencer at 22. With Ross of the board to the Giants that left Merriweather and Spencer. I'm happy we were able to gain a first and jump back in for Spencer. I didn't want Houston, Wright or Wilson at 22 (the next 3 CBs that were selected) and Safety (Weddle) didn't warrant selection either.

I do believe that WR had value, but as I've said a hundred billion times, I don't believe you need elite, expensive WRs to win. Average to above average is sufficient. Developing WRs also often times takes years even for elite prospects. So naturally, the defensive selection of OLB was fine.

I still hold that NT was our biggest need in the draft and we failed to address it, so I probably need to factor that into my grade.

The development corners that we have are fine. I didn't think we needed a starter right away. Courtney Brown has nice potential and both give Wade players to mold and work with.

I loved the way we used the draft to seal up smaller needs on Day 2. We picked up 2 potential starters for 2007 in FB & K. Then addressed our depth at OL, CB and WR/QB/KR/PR/H (all in one - Stanback).

Our remaining concerns in my mind are possibly upgrades at NT, OG, RB and back ups at C, ILB, DE (I think we need a vet). We'll see how the season progresses as more concerns may arise... like FS. I really think Doug Freak can be our LT of the future. I do.

Bottom line, I think we should've found a way to upgrade NT and I wish we had moved up for a WR in round 2. Other than that, I came away extremely pleased with the job done.
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Old 04-30-2007, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Agree on the analysis Thule. I was harsher on the grade becuase I felt there WERE GUYS THERE for Jones to improve the team this year. He just blew it.
I'm curious to know where you think we blew it and who we should've taken.
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Old 04-30-2007, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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I think the draft was good. Not great. I would have liked one of the WR's in the 2nd, but I'm willing to give that up for the 1 next year.

Spencer will be great. I think the OL will be very solid. I think this draft hinges on Steinbeck. If he becomes Crayton with 4.3 speed, then I think this draft is quite easily a great draft. I just think we have to wait a while to see how this one works out. It certainly isn't bad or horrible like many on here want to claim. I swear there are some that will hammer Jerry no matter what he does.
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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I agree. Is Stanback turns into Crayton with 4.3 speed, which he has, Crayton is only 4.58, this draft would go from good to amazing. Darren McFadden next year baby. I don't see how people are disgarding that. I am really excited about Stanback.
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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I believe if we could draft Tank Tyler, Jason Hill, Jonathan Ware, Andy Alleman, or Marcus McCauley at 67, I will gave us a B.
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by robert_in_bigd View Post
I normally agree with you BBD but to say we get a B because of next year's draft is a stretch. Next year's 1 is as yet to be a player. Who knows what that becomes. So, I just think the 1 is like saying "well we got an D" but I will give you and D+ cuz you may in the future do better on the test."

Not one player in this draft will play for the Cowboys in any meaningful way, including Spencer. If Wade does what I think he will the Front Seven will be much improved in pass rushing and the impact of a Rookie like Spencer will be minimal. Spencer was a luxury pick IMHO. AGAIN, he is the best rusher in the draft and he is a bette WOLB propsect than Ware. Ware is a much better SOLB and can actually cover a TE -- something Roy Williams can not do -- on first and second down.

The OL picks are good. Rather have my Tackle prospects than the Giants or any other team in the NFL. While Colombo and Flo are mediocre to say the least Free, Marten and McQuistan have talent. I think, baring injury, we have our answers at two key positions come 2008 and 2009.

[b]The rest of the picks are pure garbage. Jones blew it on the WR front, the NT front and the DB front. We have not improved 1 bit in these positions since last year. Not 1.

We will continue to get killed covering Backs and TEs. If you spread the field on us and we don't get a sack we are still too slow in the middle of the field.

Carpenter will need to move inside which is another "developmental" year if you ask me plus you now verified Jones made a mistake with either Ayodele or James' contracts.

If Fergie goes down forget the season or one of the starting WR -- we are in deep pooh. Hurd and Crayton are not 1s. Austin could be put is raw. Pick a name NT is not ready unless we get someone off the waiver wire or get Kris Jenkins.

While last year's Cowboy draft may not have picked the best players b/c we went with Bill Guys (i.e., poor athletes for the picks) at least it made sense. Every pick made sense and you could see how they could help the team THAT YEAR.

This year, outside of Spencer as a third down guy, I see nothing of value to the 2007 team.

Grade D+ to C.
Bingo! the posts robert_in_bigd have been on the money of what I would have said.

We passed up on good CB and WRs and also that big NT. Instead we got that Washington QB who never did anything when we (USC Trojans) played them, a FB and a Kicker. The O-Linemen that we got should be pretty good. Spencer
should be good I guess, but we have a lot of money invested into out LBs and one of them is gonna sit on the bench the majority of the time.
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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I agree with your assesment of spencer LSU, but I think his stiffness dosn't matter near as much in Wade's scheme as it would have in Bill's. I don't think Spencer will be asked to do much at all this year except rush the pasher which he should do very well. Carp on the other hand was a SAM more in the Parcells mould, a guy who was versitile against the run, rushing or in coverage. I think Wade got his guy to fit his scheme. Hopefully he'll still be creative and use Carps talents the best way possible. Just a different philosophy in how Bill likes his OLB's and how Wade does.
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Dear god I hate Skip Bayless.

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Cowboys made the stupidest move in passing on Brady Quinn....I'm not sold on Tony "Romeo"... He's 5'11 and sidearm...they made a big mistake.
Why is this man on TV?
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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OMG Paul you just read my mind. I was about to post the same thing. I was just watching first and 10, lmao. He is the dumbest analyst I have ever seen. TOny Romo is 6'2 1/2'' and has an over the top release. How do these idiots actually get hired. He also said that Ginn will be a start and it was a great pick at 9. He is the worst analyst I have ever seen. When we have McFadden or Stewart next year, I will be laughing in there faces. We easily had a top 5 draft, and he is callling it the worst draft. LMAO. Just wait until Spencer is D.R.O.Y.

Oh and LSU, why are you so obsessed with getting a CB? We are fine there. Plus, don't look past Courtney Brown, that kid could turn into something. Our DBs are all fine, we just need pressure, and now with the addition of Spencer, Ware only getting better and better, and Wade Phillips' schemes, we are going to own. I expect a top 3 defense, and a top 5 total in INT's. I don't think at CB is necessary even next year. I hope we go RB with the cleveland's pick (McFadden or Stewart) and WR with our pick (Sweed or Doucet).

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Old 04-30-2007, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 22,895 View Post
Bingo! the posts robert_in_bigd have been on the money of what I would have said.

We passed up on good CB and WRs and also that big NT. Instead we got that Washington QB who never did anything when we (USC Trojans) played them, a FB and a Kicker. The O-Linemen that we got should be pretty good. Spencer
should be good I guess, but we have a lot of money invested into out LBs and one of them is gonna sit on the bench the majority of the time.
Stanback will play WR.
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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While I couldn't agree more with the assessment that Skip Bayless is a total moron; to say that the Cowboys had a top 5 draft is not something I even remotely agree with.

Again, we traded out of the 1st round (we did go back into the round later) for NEXT year's pick. That means that next year's draft will be looked at as better because of it, but you can't give us credit this year and then next year say it was an 'A' because we got McFadden. That's giving credit twice.

I think we had a very average draft this year but set ourselves up for a potentially very good draft next year.
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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LSU, why do you want a CB so bad?

With the pressure we will have this year, Newman is easily a pro-bowler, and Henry should be one of the best #2's in the league.
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