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Old 04-30-2007, 02:44 PM    (permalink
LSUALUM99
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Originally Posted by Achilles33 View Post
LSU, why do you want a CB so bad?

With the pressure we will have this year, Newman is easily a pro-bowler, and Henry should be one of the best #2's in the league.

Because CB is the most premium position in the NFL. If you can draft one and he becomes a super star you save 50 million on the cap space and get alot more freedom in your defensive scheme.

Pressure on the QB is essential, arguably the most essential thing you need to be successfull on defense. However, there are alot of different ways to go about that. CB on the other hand, there isn't another way to play man to man than having a CB on an offensive player.

CB is a very difficult position to 'substitute' for. It's right up there with QB or LT.

Yes, Newman is good. But for some reason you seem to think that he'll never get hurt or that a great CB couldn't get actual playing time.

For instance, since we see lots of 3 wr sets wouldn't it be smart to have ANOTHER good CB to cover the slot guy since none of our safeties can and Aaron Glenn is in his last year on this team?

You know that term, BPA? That's what drafting a CB is if he's there. With scarcity, you should take him because he'll earn his paycheck from day one.
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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A "D".

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s.3827e9f.html
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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I am not against a CB, but I don't really think we need one, and who would you have taken at 22 or 26 that was BPA? Not Chris Houston, he was so overhyped, and his selection proved it. This was a horrible CB draft. Plus, we are going to give a mega contract to Terence Newman this year. And I think we will go offense with both of our #1's next year. Probably WR and RB.

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Old 04-30-2007, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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He gave us a D and Philly a C? No way Philly had a better draft than us. They had serious problem at CB and LB and they didn't resolve them by any means.
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Thats why I never trust experts.
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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While I couldn't agree more with the assessment that Skip Bayless is a total moron; to say that the Cowboys had a top 5 draft is not something I even remotely agree with.

Again, we traded out of the 1st round (we did go back into the round later) for NEXT year's pick. That means that next year's draft will be looked at as better because of it, but you can't give us credit this year and then next year say it was an 'A' because we got McFadden. That's giving credit twice.

I think we had a very average draft this year but set ourselves up for a potentially very good draft next year.
We surely need to factor in the raping of the Browns in our overall draft grade. Just because the pick will be made next year doesn't mean that we don't deserve credit for it today. The solution to the whole giving credit twice issue- would be to just temper our praise next year. Our expectations will rightfully be higher going in, and we should grade our draft as such. If we come away with an average draft despite having the extra 1st, then we deserve a low grade. If we do something spectacular with the extra pick, then it needs to be tempered with the fact that we indeed had an extra pick. And we should all look back on this draft and be thankful that we had the foresight and patience to cultivate something great. There's just no way that we can't include this coup in this years grade. It was the highlight of our draft.
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Old 04-30-2007, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Because CB is the most premium position in the NFL. If you can draft one and he becomes a super star you save 50 million on the cap space and get alot more freedom in your defensive scheme.

Pressure on the QB is essential, arguably the most essential thing you need to be successfull on defense. However, there are alot of different ways to go about that. CB on the other hand, there isn't another way to play man to man than having a CB on an offensive player.

CB is a very difficult position to 'substitute' for. It's right up there with QB or LT.

Yes, Newman is good. But for some reason you seem to think that he'll never get hurt or that a great CB couldn't get actual playing time.

For instance, since we see lots of 3 wr sets wouldn't it be smart to have ANOTHER good CB to cover the slot guy since none of our safeties can and Aaron Glenn is in his last year on this team?

You know that term, BPA? That's what drafting a CB is if he's there. With scarcity, you should take him because he'll earn his paycheck from day one.
You know that I want a CB too, even in round 1.
But I still give us a B. First because you have to consider that we pick the guy we wanted plus adding a next year top 15 selection.
I like Spencer, I wasn't the biggest fan of drafting an OLB, but with Carpenter moving inside I like the idea of having two beastly rushers. Wade defense is all based on putting pressure with your OLB.
Then we picked two great OLs who could be starter. Free is a a great prospect, Kiper thinks that he has a great chance of being a very good LT. Marten is a mauler and he can be our future RT. With those guys we could be set at OT for years to come (hopefully). Philadelphia made his great line by drafting player not to contribute immediately. Herremans and their C (I forgot his name) weren't starters for their first year, now they are both good players. They drafted last year Justice to be their LT of the future.
I wanted a WR too, but with all the best guys gone by our third pick, I don't if we were able to pick a future starter. We have good #3 and #4 in Crayton, Austin and Hurd. So I like the pick of Stanback because he can be a different type of player.
Maybe we should have add a CB in the third instead of Marten but there were CB with good starting potential avaible?
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Old 04-30-2007, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Alright I am hoping to eventually get to every team in the league, but I'm starting with the NFC East teams.

I liked the Anthony Spencer pick, gives a nice compliment to Ware and I think Carpenter is better suited inside...is that the plan? Anyway, Spencer would scare me a little bit though because I question his speed on the field, looked slow to me at times on tape.

Really liked the Marten pick, I would have taken him here for sure int he 3rd had be been there. Everyone lables him a RT for sure, but I think there is some LT potential in him, he really impressed me at that spot this past season. Do you think he'll be the starter there (LT) in 2008?

Stanback was a pretty bad pick IMO. I really don't see him projecting that well at WR but due to a lack of tape on him catching balls and running routes, it's hard to really evaluate the pick. I think the Cowboys could have used a WR with more promise there but it's not like any rook at that point was going to break into the top 3 WR on the depth chart anyway.

Never liked Free....many Giants fans asked about him leading up to the draft and I never really saw a lot of promise in him. Should be able to give you depth though and as a 4th round pick, you can't be upset with that. I don't see him ever being a starter at the NFL level though.

Folk...honestly I don't scout kickers, I just go by what I read on the internet about them. From what I read, I would have taken Crosby there but not a big deal. Is he expected to make the roster?

Anderson....did you really need a FB? Last year's FB is slipping my mind but I thought he did a find job last year.

Brown was a nice sleeper pick, many experts had him ranked pretty high. I think you could have used a CB a little earlier though, perhaps instead of Free. Don't know much about Ball other than remember him getting burnt by Rutgers a couple times, but 7th rounders....eh.

I gave you guys a B-....thought you could have used a better WR and CB but I like the depth along the line you added and Spencer could end up being one of the better players from this class if he gets a little faster...Phillips may have a field day with him.

Also, who are your backup QBs? Oh and I did not equate next year's 1st rounder into the equation....but obviously it will give you the extra edge in next year's draft.
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Old 04-30-2007, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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Free is an amazing pick. His only knock is strength, and everyone builds strength once they hit the NFL. He is the front runner to be our LT in 2008 IMO.
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Old 04-30-2007, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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Kiper gave us a B by the way.
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Old 04-30-2007, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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I'm curious to know where you think we blew it and who we should've taken.
Assuming we keep Cleveland 2nd and Spencer is gone by 36 ......... could swap out some stuff and get similar.......

36- Sidney Rice (WR)
53- Gerald Alexander (S)
87- Paul Soliai (NT)
122- Doug Free (LT)
159- Mike Coe (CB)
195- Jacob Ford (OLB)
200- Jordan Palmer (QB)
212- Ben Patrick (TE)
234- Brandon Siler (ILB)
237- 370lbs Thomas (NT)

Assuming we keep order we actually used and try validate actual picks ..

26 -- Spencer (OLB)
67 -- Paul Williams (WR) or Jacoby Jones (WR)
103 -- Paul Soliai (NT)
122 -- Doug Free (LT)
195- Jordan Pamer (QB)
200- Courntey Brown (CB)
234- Brandon Siler (ILB)
237- 370lbs Thomas (NT)

All these guys where around for him
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Old 04-30-2007, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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Because CB is the most premium position in the NFL. If you can draft one and he becomes a super star you save 50 million on the cap space and get alot more freedom in your defensive scheme.
No. QB is the premium position. I would put CB right there with pass rusher as 2a or 2b, and LT as 3.



Quote:
Pressure on the QB is essential, arguably the most essential thing you need to be successfull on defense. However, there are alot of different ways to go about that. CB on the other hand, there isn't another way to play man to man than having a CB on an offensive player.
Sure you must have a CB, but a good rush makes a CB better. A good CB doesn't make your rush any better.


Quote:
You know that term, BPA? That's what drafting a CB is if he's there. With scarcity, you should take him because he'll earn his paycheck from day one.
I think they liked Ross, a lot. He probably was their choice behind Spencer.
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Old 04-30-2007, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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Several interesting items discussed. Thanks for the discussion guys.


On not drafting a top CB in Rnd 1...
- There's no way in hell I don't make that deal with CLE so that I can draft a CB at 22. After Aaron Ross at 20, no CB went until 41 (Houston). The value was not there.

On not drafting a CB in Rnd 2...
- We passed on Eric Wright here. While I think Wright has better potential, in all honestly, I think Courtney Brown has just as much of a chance to succeed... without the character concerns.
- By trading down, we picked up an extra 4th. I don't know if we would've ended up with Doug Free without the trade down. I'm really happy with Free.

On needing a CB because we fact 3 WR sets...
- You're essentially talking about the Nickel Back. We had other bigger concerns than NB. DE and OT certainly fitting the bill. I think between Aaron Glenn, Jacques Reeves and Courtney Brown we have sufficient NB options for 2007.

On CB being a means of helping the pass rush...
- While I definately agree, we already have capable starters at CB while we didn't at OLB. Ellis is not the answer. Carpenter will be a great ILB. James and Ayodele are both very nice complementary players. Carpenter has the chance to be a STAR. Our defense NEEDS that Bad Ass Middle LB and I fully believe Carp can be that guy. Our "Urlacher" in the Middle. I love what he can bring at SILB because first of all, he is smart, he can diagnose plays quickly... secondly he has the size to take on blockers, tall enough to see where the play is going, he can stuff the run, he can cover and what I am most excited to see is him providing the BLITZ from the INSIDE! I can't wait!!! With Ware and Spencer attacking from the outside and Carp attacking from the inside, that is just DEADLY.

On drafting a CB to put us in good financial cap status...
- We're already spending the money on Henry. T-New WILL BE resigned. We better not be in the mind set that we need to draft a CB because we plan to let Newman walk. So unless the idea is to cut or restructure Henry's contract, we really cannot afford to spend more than a Day 2 pick's salary on CB. Sure we'd love to increase the depth talent, and I think we did ok.


The only legit argument out there is us passing on Eric Wright in Round 2, which would have cost us James Marten and Doug Free or us passing on AJ Davis, Tanard Jackson, John Bowie or Fred Bennett in Round 4. I'm not ready to cry over any of those guys.
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Old 04-30-2007, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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Stanback:

http://play.rbn.com/play.asx?url=nfl...mswmext =.asx

I love it!
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Old 04-30-2007, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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Hmmm... this could get interesting... I don't think we've ever had a QB draw play. Now we do. I like the way the guy makes things happen with the ball in his hands. I hope JG can use him right. Otherwise, he's just another Woody Dantzler.
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Old 04-30-2007, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Macarthur,

Acutally CB is the most premium position in the NFL. It's the highest average salary and out of 32 teams, at least 15 of them have Good / Average startering QBs. In fact, there are about 20 decent starting QB's in the league. However, there are not 40 decent starting CB's (2 per team). So that means that it's harder to get a good CB than a good QB.

Don't confuse 'premium' with most important.

It's very important to get a good RB, but it's not that hard to find one. So there isn't a premium on them. It's very hard to find a good CB. That's the difference.

D-Unit,

Well, my issue is that no one drafted on the OL solves an immediate need. There is an immediate need to fix one of the WORST (24th in the league) pass defenses in the NFL. For all the talk about pass rush, we still ended up at the league average in sacks AND we have Bobby Carpenter who we drafted for OLB who has pass rush ability to plug in. I don't hate the Spencer pick, but there are other options currently on the team that could help the pass rush. There are no other options at CB that can help our pass defense.

The real key is Hamlin. That signing makes or breaks this draft. If Hamlin comes in and helps stabilize the pass defense then there was no need to get a DB. If he doesn't then we have few options currently on the team to fix it.

That is the reason why I say if we don't finish with a top 10 pass defense then the draft is a failure.
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Old 04-30-2007, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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Think about what Stanback could do. We can do some QB runs and draws, then he fakes the draw, pulls up, and hits T.O. or Glenn for a TD. He does have a cannon.
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Old 04-30-2007, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Achilles33 you have a vivid imagination if you see Stanback doing anything of meaning in 07 or 08.
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Old 04-30-2007, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Hmmm... this could get interesting... I don't think we've ever had a QB draw play. Now we do. I like the way the guy makes things happen with the ball in his hands. I hope JG can use him right. Otherwise, he's just another Woody Dantzler.
BP had Romo do a QB Draw for a 2 point conversion and other goal line situations
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Old 04-30-2007, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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But Stanback is way faster and more athletic. And no robert in big D, stanback will have an immediate impact in certain situations. Like Brad Smith, but better. He could do some draws and keeps, and then fake a draw or hand-off, pull up, and hit TO or Terry for a 60 yard TD.
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Old 04-30-2007, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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I wasn't exatcly sure if Achilles was really Tnew or not, but It's more the obvious now.
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Old 04-30-2007, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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Stanback will have as much impact as Skyler Green did.

I hope he turns out, but I doubt he will. He really isn't very athletic for a WR, and he isn't good at QB. Also he wasn't productive running in college. If you put him in near the goal line I wouldn't trust him throwing, so teams will key in on the run.
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Old 04-30-2007, 06:40 PM    (permalink
Achilles33
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Stanback is a great athlete. He was drafted in baseball last year and hadn't played since high school. He missed qualifying for nationals last year at washington in the 100 meter by .02. And he wasd a great runner in college. He will have a much better impact than Skyler Green did.
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Old 04-30-2007, 06:55 PM    (permalink
robert_in_bigd
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Ok, we are discussing a 3rd string QB / 5th string WR. / Unemployed Football Player.

Fascinating. Can we move along?
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Old 04-30-2007, 06:55 PM    (permalink
Im_a_Romosexual
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could you get worse than green?
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