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Old 04-29-2007, 11:51 PM    (permalink
TwOne
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Default Giants Move Kiwanuka to LB

wow, he was good at DE.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2853745
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Mathias Kiwanuka is changing positions and moving into the New York Giants' starting lineup at linebacker.

The linebacker spot has been a concern since Reese waived veterans Carlos Emmons and LaVar Arrington in a salary cap move earlier this year.

Moving Kiwanuka is an attempt to get another good player on the field. Michael Strahan and Osi Umenyiora both went to the Pro Bowl in 2005, but missed considerable action last season with injuries.
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Old 04-29-2007, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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Wow, he's a smart guy but that's going to be a rushed transition.
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Old 04-30-2007, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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DUMB move.
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Old 04-30-2007, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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i don really like it, he was a damn fine DE.

i wonder what BBD will think
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Old 04-30-2007, 12:23 AM    (permalink
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Fine move. He will be utlized properly as a LB on 1st and 2nd downs....pass rusher on 3rd downs when he is in there as a blitzer from wherever. He was often in coverage last year and he always did a forimiddable job, had 2 INTs.

The guys that say it is a "dumb" move....I'd be suprised if you watched more than 2 Giants games last year.
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Old 04-30-2007, 12:37 AM    (permalink
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They needed an outside backer and why draft one when you spent a pick on a guy last year. Besides it is not like theyre losing a starting DE.
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Old 04-30-2007, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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I think it's a great move by the Giants. They have two great pass rushers in Strahan and Umenyiora so why not try to get them on the field at the same time, as well as a guy who showed a lot of promise last year in Kiwanuka?

A smart move.
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Old 04-30-2007, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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i can see y they'd do it. they have 2 very talented ends and their LB issues over the last 2 years have been a concern. I'll be interested to see how he makes the transition, and will he stay there if Usi or Strahan get hurt during the year?
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Old 04-30-2007, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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If I'm correct, the Giants defensive scheme is more of a 4-3 over than a traditional 4-3, with the SLB lined up on the line of scrimmage. They'll use him in the same way that they envisioned they would use Lavar Arrington.
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:28 AM    (permalink
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If I'm correct, the Giants defensive scheme is more of a 4-3 over than a traditional 4-3, with the SLB lined up on the line of scrimmage. They'll use him in the same way that they envisioned they would use Lavar Arrington.
I love how you said "envisioned".
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:31 AM    (permalink
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It depends how they use him. There are a lot of match-up Backs and Tight Ends in the NFC East. I would worry about him, if they ask him to cover. If they use him as a Shawne Merriman type, attack the backfield on every play, I think it will work.
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Old 04-30-2007, 04:10 AM    (permalink
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There are definitely plenty of ways to effectively utilize a rush 'backer in a 4-3 scheme, but, like Shiver said, they can't protect him from covering 100% of the time and until he gets used to that aspect they won't be able to leave him on the field as much as they'd probably like to.
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Old 04-30-2007, 06:13 AM    (permalink
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I really hope the job isn't just handed to him. Strahan won't be around too much longer and Umenyiora/Kiwanuka could be a beastly combo.
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Old 04-30-2007, 07:22 AM    (permalink
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I think it's a great move by the Giants. They have two great pass rushers in Strahan and Umenyiora so why not try to get them on the field at the same time, as well as a guy who showed a lot of promise last year in Kiwanuka?

A smart move.
Do you know how often Strahan hasn't been able to play in the last couple of seasons? He's about done with his stellar career. This probably will be his last season.
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Old 04-30-2007, 07:27 AM    (permalink
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If I'm correct, the Giants defensive scheme is more of a 4-3 over than a traditional 4-3, with the SLB lined up on the line of scrimmage. They'll use him in the same way that they envisioned they would use Lavar Arrington.
Exactly how he'll be used. Kiwi is extremely smart. I wouldn't be surpised if on top of learning to play SLB, that he will also take part in some of his old DE drills. If Strahan or Osi were to go down for any period of time I would expect Kiwi to go back to DE and DeOssie to step in at SLB.
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Old 04-30-2007, 07:28 AM    (permalink
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It depends how they use him. There are a lot of match-up Backs and Tight Ends in the NFC East. I would worry about him, if they ask him to cover. If they use him as a Shawne Merriman type, attack the backfield on every play, I think it will work.
Kiwi showed very good coverage ability last year for someone who was pretty much never asked to cover up until that point. 2 INTS like Number 10 said earlier. In one season with limited snaps standing up, he showed more coverage ability than Reggie Torbor has in 3 seasons.
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Old 04-30-2007, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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i don really like it, he was a damn fine DE.

i wonder what BBD will think
This is a great move that we've been discussing on the Giants team board as early as last year. We've envisioned this for awhile now.

If you look back, Ive always felt that Kiwi was actually at his best last season when he was standing up. He was more impressive as a rushbacker/lb than as a LE. He has amazing fluidity in coverage, long arms, a knack for the ball, and sure hands. He makes plays standing up, he's actually better suited at that position with his current frame. Every single time they stood him up (maybe 15 plays total), he was a playmaker. He got INTs, he got sacks, he broke up passes, he got hurries, he was a playmaker every time. This was another big reason why if you look back, Ive been pushing for a switch to a 3-4 defense for us after Strahan retires with Kiwi and Osi as rushbackers and Chase Blackburn and AP as ILBs.

As a fulltime DE, I noticed he lacks the strength to really hack it as anything more than a situational pass rusher DE. He needs to add 20 more lbs to be a full time DE. Thats not an easy process by any means. Right here right now, he's simply not strong enough to hack it there fulltime.

In his new role, think Julian Peterson. He'll be a rover/rushbacker type of SAM/WILL (mostly SAM) on 1st and 2nd down, and if need be, will put his hand on the dirt and rush as a DE on 3rd.

Its also important to understand the system that we run now. With Spagnuola, expect heavy blitzing. SAM responsibilities on the TE are minimal, he'll mostly either rush or play a zone or get safety help up top in man coverage with the TE.

We also got DeOssie in the draft, which is another versatile type player who will either back him up, or if he can hack it, maybe even play WILL can really make our front 7 very formiddable in terms of pass rush.
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Old 04-30-2007, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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This ought to be instersting.
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Old 04-30-2007, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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well, considering the giants have strahan and osi, and have really no linebackers, i think this is a good move. If it pans out.
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Old 04-30-2007, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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It could be a good move, I'm not sure who they have in the libacking core right now.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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Actually....now that I think of it, I see them using Kiwi much like how the Seahawks use Julian Peterson. He is athletic enough and long enough to be effective in coverage, at least more effective than any LBs we have had here in awhile.....and he will be a rush backer on passing downs.

I also think he'll still be a DE on the depth chart should someone go down. One thing I know, Spags is going to go nuts with him.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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Kiwanuka is way too athletic to have his hand in the dirt with the rest of the hogs. He can be put to much better use. I love this move. I'm kind of wondering why we drafted Zack DeOssie if we were planning on moving Kiwanuka all along.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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Kiwanuka is way too athletic to have his hand in the dirt with the rest of the hogs. He can be put to much better use. I love this move. I'm kind of wondering why we drafted Zack DeOssie if we were planning on moving Kiwanuka all along.
We drafted DeOssie for depth and versatility. If a DE goes down I would assume Kiwi would switch back to DE and DeOssie would step in. The fact that DeOssie can long snap will only help in the future as well.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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Kiwanuka is way too athletic to have his hand in the dirt with the rest of the hogs. He can be put to much better use. I love this move. I'm kind of wondering why we drafted Zack DeOssie if we were planning on moving Kiwanuka all along.
DeOssie could maybe play WILL? He has the speed and coverage skills, its worth giving a shot during PS. Having DeOssie only makes my desire to switch to a 3-4 defense even that much larger.

AP and DeOssie at ILB, Osi and Kiwi at OLB. All we need is a NT and a DE and we can make the conversion, and have a scary good front 7 in a 3-4 front.

I would give serious thought of trading a 3rd round pick to Pittsburgh for Casey Hampton and switching to the 3-4 next year.


Yes, my mancrush for bringing the 3-4 back where it belongs is still large and in charge.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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DeOssie could maybe play WILL? He has the speed and coverage skills, its worth giving a shot during PS. Having DeOssie only makes my desire to switch to a 3-4 defense even that much larger.

AP and DeOssie at ILB, Osi and Kiwi at OLB. All we need is a NT and a DE and we can make the conversion, and have a scary good front 7 in a 3-4 front.

I would give serious thought of trading a 3rd round pick to Pittsburgh for Casey Hampton and switching to the 3-4 next year.


Yes, my mancrush for bringing the 3-4 back where it belongs is still large and in charge.
Get over it already.

First of all, Casey Hampton is arguabely the best NT in the entire league and nobody will depart with him for a 3rd round pick. Second of all, we don't have the defensive ends that can play in a 3-4. Third and most importantly, we don't have a defensive coordinator that runs a 3-4.
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