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Old 05-03-2007, 11:09 AM    (permalink
Modano
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You gotta be blind. That group plays this year. Not saying starters but I know most of the top picks are active on Game Day.

The guys Jerry picked -- mark it down -- will only have ONE guy who plays at at all this year.

Anyway, moving on. Compare notes in October.
I can't understand you. If you like the pick of Spencer, Free and Marten, why are you always complaining about this year draft? Three good picks out of 7 is not a bad draft. If you like the pick of Marten and Free why do you said that this draft is not good because it will not make our team better and only one player will contribute? OLs are not supposed to start for at least their first year. The ones who do that, and play well, are the exception. So if you like that we've picked two o-linemen you can't complain about their lacking of contribution for next year.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:15 AM    (permalink
thule
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OK, you are not too smart. All these players where available when the Cowboys would have picked if they had stayed put at 36. Not a theoretical game.

So Cover 2 Safeties can't cover according to you and Alexander stinks b/c he was moved fro CB to Safety?

Interesting b/c most Cover 2 Safeties actually are forced to cover lots more than safeties in man schemes. The fact Alexander was a CB and moved to safety means he can cover.

All I know is Ed Reed was a CB when he got to Miami. Ronnie Lott was a CB.... you see where this discussion is going?

You are argumentative without any analysis to support your arguments or willing to give an inch on an incredibly silly set of ideas.
Do you feel better after you take shots at other people. What I was saying as it is hypothetical...the cowboys didn't know who would be around the next round and how the draft would go. So yes...the Rice pick is full proof...but how would they know that they needed to select a player at x position...they wouldn't...for all the know they could have thought he would be gone the very next pick. It's much easier to make a ideal mock draft when all the picks have been made...point being they don't know..so all they can do is project...which doesn't always leave them with the players or value at where they are drafting.

I'm not saying cover 2 safeties can't cover anything...I'm saying Alexander got moved from CB to Safety because he was constantly getting burned. He has the numbers to play CB/S...but he doesn't have the instincts for the position. That was low level college....now you expect him to make the team and be active on gameday...with below average rookie instincts in one of our deepest positions. Please...Alexander would have had an outside shot at making the team at best.

I love this comment..because you bash others for not providing reasoning...yet you dont' back it up with anything either.
"The fact Alexander was a CB and moved to safety means he can cover."
This answer is almost completely wrong. Alexander had too much raw talent too not be on the field playing at a school like Boise State. But since he couldn't cover a WR to save his life he was moved to hide some of his more obvious weakness's on the field. So your comment is almost completely wrong....The fact is Alexander was moved from CB to safety because he couldn't cover.

To put Alexander even close to the same names as Ed Reed or Ronnie Lott is laughable. Alexander doesn't have a ounce of the instincts Reed and Lott play/ed with.

You are argumentative without any analysis to support your arguments or willing to give an inch on an incredibly silly set of ideas.
I'm pretty sure I've supported my argument with a pretty accurate analysis. I would hardly call two of the greatest players to ever play the game a good analysis as to why Alexander would make this team. Why would I give and inch too one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen. Like I said...between you and Tnew we have two of the lesser posters on this board. No this isn't an attack either...just pointing out that you and Tnew like to backup your opinions with weak analysis.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Do you feel better after you take shots at other people. What I was saying as it is hypothetical...the cowboys didn't know who would be around the next round and how the draft would go. So yes...the Rice pick is full proof...but how would they know that they needed to select a player at x position...they wouldn't...for all the know they could have thought he would be gone the very next pick. It's much easier to make a ideal mock draft when all the picks have been made...point being they don't know..so all they can do is project...which doesn't always leave them with the players or value at where they are drafting.

I'm not saying cover 2 safeties can't cover anything...I'm saying Alexander got moved from CB to Safety because he was constantly getting burned. He has the numbers to play CB/S...but he doesn't have the instincts for the position. That was low level college....now you expect him to make the team and be active on gameday...with below average rookie instincts in one of our deepest positions. Please...Alexander would have had an outside shot at making the team at best.

I love this comment..because you bash others for not providing reasoning...yet you dont' back it up with anything either.
"The fact Alexander was a CB and moved to safety means he can cover."
This answer is almost completely wrong. Alexander had too much raw talent too not be on the field playing at a school like Boise State. But since he couldn't cover a WR to save his life he was moved to hide some of his more obvious weakness's on the field. So your comment is almost completely wrong....The fact is Alexander was moved from CB to safety because he couldn't cover.

To put Alexander even close to the same names as Ed Reed or Ronnie Lott is laughable. Alexander doesn't have a ounce of the instincts Reed and Lott play/ed with.

You are argumentative without any analysis to support your arguments or willing to give an inch on an incredibly silly set of ideas.
I'm pretty sure I've supported my argument with a pretty accurate analysis. I would hardly call two of the greatest players to ever play the game a good analysis as to why Alexander would make this team. Why would I give and inch too one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen. Like I said...between you and Tnew we have two of the lesser posters on this board. No this isn't an attack either...just pointing out that you and Tnew like to backup your opinions with weak analysis.
I am sorry I thought you where Achilles. You are a good poster.

Regardless, my analysis is excellent. Been RIGHT lots more than wrong. Too bad the old board and posts have been taken down. I can point out a series of issue that you are now/have back tracked on including:

1) Shaun Rogers -- you actually pitched that idea from another poster you bashed. I remember "Madden" being the choice derogatory.
2) Badie James -- now you have joined the band of BJ haters who want to move Carpenter inside. Another idea advanced late 2006 that you bashed.

2007 Cowboys Draft: D. Only 1 guy plays and only 2 are on the active roster for most the season barring CATASTROPHIC injuries.

2008 and Beyond: C. Only one more guy will stick. Probably Free and Marten and Spencer.

Just book mark it and tell me you are right later after the results are in.

As I said, let us wait till October. Can we do that and move on? More than happy for you to use my words against me ....
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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I can't understand you. If you like the pick of Spencer, Free and Marten, why are you always complaining about this year draft? Three good picks out of 7 is not a bad draft. If you like the pick of Marten and Free why do you said that this draft is not good because it will not make our team better and only one player will contribute? OLs are not supposed to start for at least their first year. The ones who do that, and play well, are the exception. So if you like that we've picked two o-linemen you can't complain about their lacking of contribution for next year.
I know OL are not supposed to start year 1. I believe we only had meaningful space for 1 -- not two. Anyway not hung up on who we took, hung up on who we could have taken.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I am sorry I thought you where Achilles. You are a good poster.

Regardless, my analysis is excellent. Been RIGHT lots more than wrong. Too bad the old board and posts have been taken down. I can point out a series of issue that you are now/have back tracked on including:

1) Shaun Rogers -- you actually pitched that idea from another poster you bashed. I remember "Madden" being the choice derogatory.
2) Badie James -- now you have joined the band of BJ haters who want to move Carpenter inside. Another idea advanced late 2006 that you bashed.

2007 Cowboys Draft: D. Only 1 guy plays and only 2 are on the active roster for most the season barring CATASTROPHIC injuries.

2008 and Beyond: C. Only one more guy will stick. Probably Free and Marten and Spencer.

Just book mark it and tell me you are right later after the results are in.

As I said, let us wait till October. Can we do that and move on? More than happy for you to use my words against me ....
Shaun Rogers ever brought in? Because I heard Detroit fans saying that they would take a 2nd for him...I would offer a 2nd for him any day of the week...but no way in hell that was happening. I'm pretty sure Roy Williams was the name to be traded to Detroit for Rogers...and that is madden...because of value/salary cap restrictions.

Bradie James was perfect in the 2 gap 3-4. But in phillips 46 3-4 defense...he requires more speed at the LB positions because his DL is playing one gaps...with twists and stunts and slants....his LB's need to be able to shed and flow to the ball. Not to mention how much more he blitzes from the inside. Bradie just doesn't fit a void in Phillips Scheme. I still see him starting off the year...but it's only a matter of time till Carp is playing SILB.

This is something that I think is really underrated when looking at our team. Adoyele and Carpenter on the inside give us speed...tenacity....and pass rushing ability...we never really got to see Akin go after the QB because Parcells likes his WILB to sit back in coverage more often than not...but Adoyele can get after the QB...like I said he played DE in college so he should atleast have some experience. We know carp can get after the QB...Spencer and Ware.....I really don't think we are ready for this LB corps. A lot of talent to fit the scheme like a glove imo.
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Old 05-03-2007, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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Thule, I remember the conversation well. I have a great memory and have been around for over 2.5 years.

The Rogers conversation started as an idea. A poster made some comments about different packages including Burnett and Roy in some form. The poster spoke about Marinelli not liking Rogers and Parcells liking him.

When the cap discussion arose after your Madden comment the poster reasonably pointed out that Rogers and Williams both had large cap hits and that it would be an even swap from an accounting perspective.

That issue was never discussed and descended into discussion on how the Cap works.

I read every post on this Board and find some poster more interesting than others. You are very good. BBD is fantastic. Paul, Staubach, D-Unit and DMW when they pause for a breadth are sometimes very good. There are a few others but a small handful.

But let me state, I know my football and while you can disagree with me on team direction and which player is better I am very sure I know their is a huge disconnect in this franchise between what the GM does and what the Coach really needs on the field.

The complete oppositte of New England where it all makes sense EVEN IF they miss on certain players it all makes sense. Cowboys are just a grab bag of talent that sometimes works. It was Bill's biggest problem with Jerry and what he wanted to solve 100% this off season. Jerry told him to walk.
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Old 05-03-2007, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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I still think your cowboysforever....you talk the same way and talk the same views...
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Old 05-03-2007, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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I still think your cowboysforever....you talk the same way and talk the same views...
I am not. I used to use my first name with a city I used to work in. I moved to Dallas for professional reasons so I re-registerd with a new one.

Take it as positive I remember you. The TNew Achilles and Texico comments are almost immediately forgotten. Hard to listen to them.

But you are pretty knowledgable and in fact have better idea of college talent. Found some of the comments on this site actually very helpful on college guys outside the tier 1 schools.

Trust me however, on what is wrong with the internal Cowboys workings I know ......... and in spite of my job as a fan it bothers me.
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Old 05-03-2007, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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Is Cowboyforever the guy who hated Roy Williams?
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Old 05-03-2007, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Is Cowboyforever the guy who hated Roy Williams?
Roy Williams needed to lose bulk or get traded.
Bradie James was gone because he didn't have the coverage smarts.
Shaun Rogers/Jerry Porter/ATL WR's were attainable
Marcus Spears could play NT in a 2 gap scheme
Roy Williams could play the OLB position
Henry could play FS
some other things too that are slipping my mind.


If we want to talk about memories. I don't think anyone can beat this. Must have been 2 years ago now...D-Unit was a new poster and thought he could fill up one page of posts with one really long post...it was really long but D didn't realize at the time pages were split by number of posts. Great flashback imo.
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Old 05-03-2007, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Roy Williams needed to lose bulk or get traded.
Bradie James was gone because he didn't have the coverage smarts.
Shaun Rogers/Jerry Porter/ATL WR's were attainable
Marcus Spears could play NT in a 2 gap scheme
Roy Williams could play the OLB position
Henry could play FS
some other things too that are slipping my mind.


If we want to talk about memories. I don't think anyone can beat this. Must have been 2 years ago now...D-Unit was a new poster and thought he could fill up one page of posts with one really long post...it was really long but D didn't realize at the time pages were split by number of posts. Great flashback imo.
So let me see how I line up ......

1) I agree on Roy Williams
2) Bradie is not good in coverage. Not sure a smarts thing.
3) Shaun Rogers/Jerry Porter/ATL WR's are/were attainable
4) Marcus can play NT if he wants to.
5) Roy could be a Tampa 2 OLB. Detroit plays Tampa 2
6) Henry at FS ..... hmmmm. Dunno but I know he can cover better than Hamlin or Roy.

Exactly what was crazy about these fannie dreams? Does not look that insane.
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Old 05-03-2007, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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So let me see how I line up ......

1) I agree on Roy Williams
2) Bradie is not good in coverage. Not sure a smarts thing.
3) Shaun Rogers/Jerry Porter/ATL WR's are/were attainable
4) Marcus can play NT if he wants to.
5) Roy could be a Tampa 2 OLB. Detroit plays Tampa 2
6) Henry at FS ..... hmmmm. Dunno but I know he can cover better than Hamlin or Roy.

Exactly what was crazy about these fannie dreams? Does not look that insane.
  • I still don't see how you trade a guy who just signed a contract extention....that doesn't happen not to mention how Jerry would look doing that. I'm sorry to say but this is a pipe dream.
  • Bradie was the perfect SILB in parcells scheme...BBD's famous run thumper quote. He just shouldn't have been playing in the nicklel.
  • I still don't see how these guys were attainable...if they were it's hard to see that they were worth the value that the team was asking for because they sure didnt' get it.
  • Marcus cannot play a 2 gap scheme NT position in the NFL.
  • I still don't think Roy has the lateral speed to play the will in a tampa 2 defense.
  • I was a big fan of moving Henry to FS.
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Old 05-03-2007, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Just on the Henry issues I also remember someone bringing that up and being killed also. Was that also cowboyforever?

1) On Bradie, well Bill is gone so academic. He will need to improve his coverage skills or Carp will take his job faster than we can imagine.
2) On Marcus, still time to see who is right. Let us see how Wade plays it. I see nothing in Marcus's body type to suggest he could not be a great NT IF HE WANTED TO. (** Marcus's biggest problem is his mind **)
3) On Roy, well if he does not have lateral quickness to play WILL then WTF is he doing playing Strong Safety or any Safety position? I think he does have the skills but ditto on Marcus's problem with his mind not allowing him to change.
4) On contracts, I agree Jerry would not scrap Roy's contract so soon. Jerry, in not so subtle ways, has blamed Parcells for Roy's regression. Not sure I get Jerry's position but he is the boss. Hamlin was a last ditch effort to salvage Roy's "super star" status. If Hamlin fails do not be shocked if Jerry gets rid of both his safeties next year.
5) Porter not attainable? ATL wide Receivers? Uh, very attainable. Whether we want them is another story.
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Old 05-03-2007, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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Just on the Henry issues I also remember someone bringing that up and being killed also. Was that also cowboyforever?

1) On Bradie, well Bill is gone so academic. He will need to improve his coverage skills or Carp will take his job faster than we can imagine.
2) On Marcus, still time to see who is right. Let us see how Wade plays it. I see nothing in Marcus's body type to suggest he could not be a great NT IF HE WANTED TO. (** Marcus's biggest problem is his mind **)
3) On Roy, well if he does not have lateral quickness to play WILL then WTF is he doing playing Strong Safety or any Safety position? I think he does have the skills but ditto on Marcus's problem with his mind not allowing him to change.
4) On contracts, I agree Jerry would not scrap Roy's contract so soon. Jerry, in not so subtle ways, has blamed Parcells for Roy's regression. Not sure I get Jerry's position but he is the boss. Hamlin was a last ditch effort to salvage Roy's "super star" status. If Hamlin fails do not be shocked if Jerry gets rid of both his safeties next year.
5) Porter not attainable? ATL wide Receivers? Uh, very attainable. Whether we want them is another story.
On #2...we can't see who is right tho. Wade plays a different rushing scheme. his DL stunt/twist/slant. How many times did you see Furgy not just go straight ahead....never. If spears is a NT ever in Wade's scheme thats one thing...but never in Parcells scheme.

Well the deal with Roy is...he is at his best when he is moving forward to the ball...thats why his natural position is the rover. When he is moving toward the ball he is great. How else does he make those picks on the run and take them to the house...they are infront of him. However playing the will he would be asked to sit back in a zone...which we all know is not a strength of his...he needs to roam and be on his own. Roy would get torned up at the Will.
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Old 05-03-2007, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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JDNOYES & DMW ... you must have missed it ....... each pick 36 to 159 is likely on the active 45 man roster ........

36- Sidney Rice (WR) -- our replacement for Hurd or Crayton, future #1
53- Gerald Alexander (S) -- Free Safety
87- Paul Soliai (NT) -- Back up NT
122- Doug Free (LT) -- Future LT
159- Mike Coe (CB) -- Get rid of Reeves or Jones ....
195- Jacob Ford (OLB) -- Backup and special teams, Burnett replacement
200- Jordan Palmer (QB) -- Development QB
212- Ben Patrick (TE) -- Talented TE, replace Curtis
234- Brandon Siler (ILB) -- Back up for now
237- 370lbs Thomas (NT) -- Dreamy dreams
After the fact, I can do it this way.

36- Chris Houston
53- Trade for 67, 103 & 178
67 - Jason Hill- (WR)
87- Paul Soliai (NT)
103- Manny Ramirez (OG)
122- Doug Free (LT)
159- Tim Shaw (ILB)
178 - John Wendling
195- Deon Anderson (FB)
200- Jacob Ford (OLB)
212- Ben Patrick (TE)
234- Brandon Siler (ILB)
237- Kenny Scott (CB)

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Old 05-03-2007, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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I still think your cowboysforever....you talk the same way and talk the same views...
yeah I have thought that for a while, but never said anything.
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:21 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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Originally Posted by thule View Post
If we want to talk about memories. I don't think anyone can beat this. Must have been 2 years ago now...D-Unit was a new poster and thought he could fill up one page of posts with one really long post...it was really long but D didn't realize at the time pages were split by number of posts. Great flashback imo.
:D THAT WAS ME!!!! NOOOOOB!!! HAHAHAH!

OMG, That post was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long! I was like, I'm gonna take up this whole page!!! HAHAHA! Classic!

Back then, I didn't even know what forums were. Being here was the first time, I ever got involved in a forum... Now looky... It's a damn addiction! LOL.

I'm still a little sad newkwhy isn't around anymore. :( Jdallas has also left the fold. I wonder when that day will be for me...???
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:22 PM    (permalink
pocketaces
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Its painfully obvious hes Cowboys forever. Coming up with crazy B.S. like this:

The complete oppositte of New England where it all makes sense EVEN IF they miss on certain players it all makes sense. Cowboys are just a grab bag of talent that sometimes works. It was Bill's biggest problem with Jerry and what he wanted to solve 100% this off season. Jerry told him to walk.

You would think he was in the office when they decided to part ways Lol. For some reason he has a mancrush (just like cowboysforever) on Parcells and if anybody says anthing against him he is quick to defend him. Everything thats wrong (if there is anything) is all because of Jerry. Jerry has never done anything right and he never will I.H.O. Robert/cowboysforever is a glass half full kind of guy and isnt happy unless he has something to ***** about.
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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I agree with D-Unit. Our draft is way better than that thing. And Alexander isn't anything special IMO. I never liked him. Watkins has way more potential. And Thule makes valid points, how do you know who would have been availabe?
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Old 05-03-2007, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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I've said before that robert is, imo, cowboysforever. Let him the benefit of the doubt, but if they aren't the same person they are twins.
They have the same opinions, but the most important thing is that robert alway referred to "a guy who was right months ago". That guy is cowboysforever.

Like:

Quote:
1) Shaun Rogers -- you actually pitched that idea from another poster you bashed. I remember "Madden" being the choice derogatory.
2) Badie James -- now you have joined the band of BJ haters who want to move Carpenter inside. Another idea advanced late 2006 that you bashed.
There's one thing I don't like about you, robert. You act like you are the propeth, like you know how everything is and is gonna be.
How can you say now that our draft picks won't even be on the team?!

But your list of who we should have taken is very questionable too:

Sidney Rice - I like the player, but he's a Spurrier WR. I wouldn't touch a Spurrier WR that early.
Gerard Alexander - No thanks. There weren't great safeties this year outside the top 5 guys (Landry,Griffin,Nelson,Merriweather,Weddle). I would't use a second rounder on a guy who has the same potential as Watkins
Paul Soliai - That's a pick I like.
Mike Coe - Why with him we should take rid of Jones and Reeves but with Courtney Brown no?!
Jacob Ford - Don't know much about him.
Jordan Palmer - I don't think we need a devolepmental QB. Our strategy is Romo or bust. If Romo fail, a 6th rounder won't be the answer, but we will looking for a franchise QB in 2008 draft.
Ben Patrick - Another TE is useless. We have one of the best in the game with Witten and is backup is Anthony Fasano, who was a second rounder. Your third string TE is just a guy wo plays special teams.
Walter Thomas - We're all draft geeks and we can dream about the potential of this guy. But there was a reason if no one touched him.
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John Madden's wedding video business

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Old 05-03-2007, 04:16 PM    (permalink
robert_in_bigd
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Originally Posted by pocketaces View Post
Its painfully obvious hes Cowboys forever. Coming up with crazy B.S. like this:

The complete oppositte of New England where it all makes sense EVEN IF they miss on certain players it all makes sense. Cowboys are just a grab bag of talent that sometimes works. It was Bill's biggest problem with Jerry and what he wanted to solve 100% this off season. Jerry told him to walk.

You would think he was in the office when they decided to part ways Lol. For some reason he has a mancrush (just like cowboysforever) on Parcells and if anybody says anthing against him he is quick to defend him. Everything thats wrong (if there is anything) is all because of Jerry. Jerry has never done anything right and he never will I.H.O. Robert/cowboysforever is a glass half full kind of guy and isnt happy unless he has something to ***** about.

Oh, another Isaiah Stanback lover. Precious. Another one of these guys with a "man crush" on anything Jerry Jones.

Dopey, the saying is a glass half empty, half full is the Jerry optimist which I am not. Oh well.

Last edited by robert_in_bigd : 05-03-2007 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 05-03-2007, 04:18 PM    (permalink
robert_in_bigd
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After the fact, I can do it this way.

36- Chris Houston
53- Trade for 67, 103 & 178
67 - Jason Hill- (WR)
87- Paul Soliai (NT)
103- Manny Ramirez (OG)
122- Doug Free (LT)
159- Tim Shaw (ILB)
178 - John Wendling
195- Deon Anderson (FB)
200- Jacob Ford (OLB)
212- Ben Patrick (TE)
234- Brandon Siler (ILB)
237- Kenny Scott (CB)
Fair enuff, point being you would taken different players than Jerry. That was my only point.
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Old 05-03-2007, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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On #2...we can't see who is right tho. Wade plays a different rushing scheme. his DL stunt/twist/slant. How many times did you see Furgy not just go straight ahead....never. If spears is a NT ever in Wade's scheme thats one thing...but never in Parcells scheme.

Well the deal with Roy is...he is at his best when he is moving forward to the ball...thats why his natural position is the rover. When he is moving toward the ball he is great. How else does he make those picks on the run and take them to the house...they are infront of him. However playing the will he would be asked to sit back in a zone...which we all know is not a strength of his...he needs to roam and be on his own. Roy would get torned up at the Will.
Thule, while I agree with your Roy analysis but I have yet to meet a Defensive player who is not required to run backwards. Much less a DB.

How in good conscience can a smart GM pay a player that kind of money seeing what we saw in 2005 let alone subtlely blame the ex-coach for the player being lousy at his job?
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Old 05-03-2007, 04:34 PM    (permalink
Achilles33
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Robert in bid D, what is up your ass? You are the bad poster. We had a great draft. Get over it. We are getting a top 5 pick next year, and we are the frontrunners for the NFC, who should be very happy.
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Old 05-03-2007, 04:37 PM    (permalink
fryman
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Fair enuff, point being you would taken different players than Jerry. That was my only point.
no the point is that come draft day you wouldn't have known who would be available later, when making early picks.

but whatever I sure you know more than the professionals. Keep on proclaiming your opinions as facts.
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