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Old 05-15-2007, 02:21 PM    (permalink
robert_in_bigd
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Once again, when I put up reasonable arguments, you border on persoanlly attacking and calling me stupid. That's the tactic of someone who knoews he's wrong and can't accept it, but can't prove himself right. You can call me stupid all day, but that's not changing anyone's mind and it's not making anyone think any higher of you. I put up reasonable arguments, and you didn't. If you want me to further suppot my argument (which you once again failed to do at all), so be it. I'll add on to "The questions surrounding Rice, including a slow 40 time, being a WR in the Spurrier system, the lack of polished play, and the lack of that real explosive burst would put him behind those two." Desean and Sweed are both faster than Rice. They don't come from systems that are known to produce not-so-great yet highly touted WRs. They both play more polishment, and have a better mastery of the position of WR than Rice. Desean has a much, much better burst off the line and after the catch than Rice, and Sweed is a decent bit more explosive. So, I'm waiting for you to stop blindly calling me stupid and actually talk about the "potatoes and corn."
I BELIEVE, Rice is better than Sweed or DeSean because he runs better routes, has better hands, has great body control, can not be jammed on the line and has good game speed (ala Larry Fitzgerald).

Make it any easier for you son? Now, let us agree only time will tell.

But you are going to tell me a 40 time in their shorts is more important in evaluating talent than actual skills needed for the position at hand.

You remind me of the dopes who love Michael Vick b/c he has all the talent in the world but frankly is a bad QB because he is not accurate and makes bad decisions.

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Old 05-15-2007, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Rice is better than Sweed or DeSean because he runs better routes, has better hands, has great body control, can not be jammed on the line and has good game speed (ala Larry Fitzgerald).

Make it any easier for you son? Now, let us agree only time will tell.

But you are going to tell me a 40 time in their shorts is more important in evaluating talent than actual skills needed for the position at hand.

You remind me of the dopes who love Michael Vick b/c he has all the talent in the world but frankly is a bad QB because he is not accurate and makes bad decisions.
I don't hold the 40 time with extremely good value. We're arguing WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN RATED. And the 40 time is very valuble to NFL executives. Tools are big for them. Take, for example, (guess who?) Sidney Rice this year. His 40 dropped him, and it would do that even next year. I'm not saying Rice is no good because of this, I'm saying Rice would have been rated lower, because it's the argument! Back to that argument. Rice's routes leave much to be desired to me. They need to be refined. However Desean and Sweed both run good routes, and they show sign of improving. You're correct on hands and body conrol, but honestly, a lot of the times, those aren't taken into account as much as speed and explosiveness before the draft (which is a real crime, but it's true). Getting off he line is questionable. Sweed and Desean do a fine job of that as does Rice. That's a close one. The game speed means nothing because DeSean is till faster, no question. So, if they were both in the same drat, Rice would be picked behind and ranked behind DeSean and Sweed, no question in my mind. BTW, I'm no Vick fan. I actually really don't like him because of the very reasons you put above.
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Old 05-15-2007, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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Rice is better than Sweed or DeSean because he runs better routes, has better hands, has great body control, can not be jammed on the line and has good game speed (ala Larry Fitzgerald).

Make it any easier for you son? Now, let us agree only time will tell.

But you are going to tell me a 40 time in their shorts is more important in evaluating talent than actual skills needed for the position at hand.

You remind me of the dopes who love Michael Vick b/c he has all the talent in the world but frankly is a bad QB because he is not accurate and makes bad decisions.
I really can't figure out how you can say that Rice is better than Desean Jackson. Desean Jackson, when he will declare, will be a top 10 pick.
Rice was taken after: Ted Ginn, Dwayne Bowe, Robert Meachem, Anthony Gonzalez, Craig Davis. So teams were figuring out he was worse than those players and that he had less potential, and that he didn't have first round grade in their minds. He had some good stats but his total yards were inflated because of the amount of passes they thrown to him.
And there's absolutely no way that those guys are bettere or have more potential than DeSean Jackson. I'm actually thinking that you don't even know who DeSean Jackson is.
And we can make the same argument for Limas Sweed, Malcolm Kelly, Manningham, Early Doucet or Bowman, but it's really hurting me reading that you think that Rice is better than a guy, like Jackson, who is gonna be an elite prospect.
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Old 05-15-2007, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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DeSean is Ginn.

As I said, it is moot. Let us see how Rice plays.
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Old 05-15-2007, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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DeSean is Ginn.

As I said, it is moot. Let us see how Rice plays.
Complete disagreement there. Don't let the fact that DeSean can return kicks mold your opinion into calling him a Ginn. DeSean actually has good WR skills.
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Old 05-15-2007, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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Complete disagreement there. Don't let the fact that DeSean can return kicks mold your opinion into calling him a Ginn. DeSean actually has good WR skills.
I have seen DeSean and I was not impressed. Need I mention the Cal passing Offense is light years ahead of Ohio State.....

But if you wish to argue DJ is better than Ginn you have my vote. I thought Ginn was over-rated since he was a Freshmen. Jackson seems to have a more robust frame.
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Old 05-16-2007, 02:46 AM    (permalink
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DeSean is Ginn.

As I said, it is moot. Let us see how Rice plays.
I was expecting this reply. Jakcson is as fast as Ginn but that doesn't mean that he's the same receiver. Jackson runs good route (Ginn runs 3 routes, like Joey Galloway), Jackson has good hands (Ginn not), Jackson is way more polished.

But I think at this point is awful arguing with you about that. Not taking CJ into account, this year, teams gave 5 receivers first round grade. Rice wasn't one of them, it's a great stretch to think that he should have had first round grade next year, considering that (if some of the juniors declare) it will be a very good WR class.
But for sure, Desean Jakcson will have first round grade, so it will be for another group of guys (during the season we'll see how many of them). There's no chance Rice should have been taken in the first next year, because this year there was no chance that he was going in the first but he still declared. I'm sure he's not that stupid to lose 1st round money for coming one year early.

And don't start the "they will be picked in the first round because the class is not that good" argument, because if you look back at the 2006 draft, only 1 WR was taken in the first, even if the class was very poor.
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Desean and Sweed would have gone before Rice.

I don't know if this is true, but I have to tell you, I have seen Sweed play a lot, and if he's the best WR in this draft, then it is the weakest draft ever. I want nothing to do with Sweed.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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I was expecting this reply. Jakcson is as fast as Ginn but that doesn't mean that he's the same receiver. Jackson runs good route (Ginn runs 3 routes, like Joey Galloway), Jackson has good hands (Ginn not), Jackson is way more polished.

But I think at this point is awful arguing with you about that. Not taking CJ into account, this year, teams gave 5 receivers first round grade. Rice wasn't one of them, it's a great stretch to think that he should have had first round grade next year, considering that (if some of the juniors declare) it will be a very good WR class.
But for sure, Desean Jakcson will have first round grade, so it will be for another group of guys (during the season we'll see how many of them). There's no chance Rice should have been taken in the first next year, because this year there was no chance that he was going in the first but he still declared. I'm sure he's not that stupid to lose 1st round money for coming one year early.

And don't start the "they will be picked in the first round because the class is not that good" argument, because if you look back at the 2006 draft, only 1 WR was taken in the first, even if the class was very poor.
It is moot. Move on. I know what you think and so do you of me.
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Old 05-16-2007, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Besides CJ, there are no future pro-bowl #1's in this draft. Maybe a sleeper from the 2nd day, but as prospects, there were none.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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DeSean is Ginn.

As I said, it is moot. Let us see how Rice plays.
You've got to be kidding me. That is an absolutely terrible comparison. They're both small, they're both fast, and they both are very good on special teams. That's it. Desean is a much, much more polished reveiver than Ginn, and DeSean still has another year to improve. Desean runs better routes, has better hands, is more physical, and still has the sped Ginn has. If you really think that this is a valid and respectable comparison, you need to stop pretending to know about football, and WATCH THEM! Draw your conclusions about players from the play on the field not that you heard that DeSean was fast, so he must be like Ginn. And even if that was a valid comparison, Ginn was still picked 35 picks ahead of Rice!
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Old 05-28-2007, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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wow...amazing how some of you guys can be so hard on a guy when you have yet to see how he performs in pre season at the least....i know there were just the same, if not more people who thought crayton wouldnt make the team either...you cant judge how hard a player will work, or what his work ethic will be like...


yes he's a project, 50/50 chance, but its crazy to say he honestly wont amount to anything yet
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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JDNOYES & DMW ... you must have missed it ....... each pick 36 to 159 is likely on the active 45 man roster ........

36- Sidney Rice (WR) -- our replacement for Hurd or Crayton, future #1
53- Gerald Alexander (S) -- Free Safety
87- Paul Soliai (NT) -- Back up NT
122- Doug Free (LT) -- Future LT
159- Mike Coe (CB) -- Get rid of Reeves or Jones ....
195- Jacob Ford (OLB) -- Backup and special teams, Burnett replacement
200- Jordan Palmer (QB) -- Development QB
212- Ben Patrick (TE) -- Talented TE, replace Curtis
234- Brandon Siler (ILB) -- Back up for now
237- 370lbs Thomas (NT) -- Dreamy dreams
Here was my 2007 draft ......
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