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Old 05-01-2007, 02:14 AM    (permalink
Non_Sequitur
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Default Are the Patriots getting desperate?

http://espn-mp3-od.andomedia.com/esp...04302007_1.mp3

Not my words. Listen to the link (starts off with Raiders talk, then goes to the Pats).
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Old 05-01-2007, 03:48 AM    (permalink
TheChampIsHere
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No I dont think the Patriots are getting desperate. I think its more of them having supreme confidence in themselves. Guys like Randy Moss, Stallworth, Merriweather, Kelley Washington...other guys might have stayed away from them but the Pats have confidence that anyone they bring into their locker room will get their head straight. And so far, the Pats have been right, but this will really be putting their veteran leadership and coaches to the test to see if they can get these guys to work hard, stay out of trouble and buy into the whole philosophy.

Another element of it is that the Patriots over the last few years had been pretty content with their roster. They didnt make big signings and they let vets walk when they asked for paydays. During the 06 season, the Pats were good but not dominant and they failed to make the superbowl b/c of a 2nd half breakdown. I think the feeling after that season in the Patriot front office was it was time to reload in talent. After pinching pennies the past couple years they had the cap room to make a splash in FA so they did that to give Bellichick some major talent to work with. In Randy Moss, they saw the opportunity to bring in a great talent for a cheap price and see if Bellichik can get him turned around, he could turn out to be a HOFer still in his prime. He restructured and he only cost them a 4th rounder so I dont see the harm.

Clearly, the Patriots are thinking superbowl this year and with these moves they should be the favorite. They still have a lot of continuity on the roster so its not as if this is like a redskin team with a whole lot of talented players but not much chemistry. I would describe the Patriots as aggresive, but not desperate because all the moves they made were smart IMO and well thought out. Making Adam Archuleta one of the highest paid safeties in the league...that is a desperate move, giving up what NY did for Eli a few years back was a desperate move. The Pats are aggressively improving their team without overpaying. Are they risking their team chemistry with these moves? Yes, and that is a cause for concern, but its hard to believe that Randy Moss could destroy the chemistry of a team with 3 rings that includes leaders like Brady, Seymour, Bruschi, Harrison, etc. Moss will buy into their philosophy or he will find himself sitting on the bench and gone the next offseason b/c Bellichick is not going to put up with any nonsense from him, b/c he doesnt need Randy to win. Also, that defense was slipping a little bit last year but by adding Thomas and Merriweather, they should be much better. Merriweather is a playmaker in coverage which is just what this team needs and Thomas should improve their pass-rush, which needs help but he is so versatile that he will also help them a lot in coverage.

This is all coming from a bitter raider fan who still roots hard against the Patriots. But I can recognize greatness when it is there and what the Patriots have been doing is great and the way the switched gears this offseason was really quite masterful IMO. And for those who feel differently, we all owe the Patriots the benefit of the doubt b/c theyve made so many other questionable moves that turned out great.
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Old 05-01-2007, 04:46 AM    (permalink
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Also, Randy was willing to restructure his contract in the Patriots favor. He knows that he has to behave because they hold all of the leverage.
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:16 AM    (permalink
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Desperate??? Why would the Patriots be DESPERATE???? They've won three Super Bowls this decade. I love, love, ABSOLUTELY LOVE the way you've gone around this board the last two days trying to say whatever you can to make you feel better about yourself and the Jets. Seriously:

Jets are sooo much better than the Pats:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/for...?t=8552&page=2

Better trade because you wanted everyone to make you feel better about Jones:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/for...ead.php?t=8590

And because the fact that the Pats are stack has you feeling insecure, the better draft, Pats or Jets? :

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/for...ead.php?t=8589

I especially love the way you skewed that one by including guys not even on the team anymore for the Jets, but not including Wes Welker for the Pats or trading Brandon Gorin for a 6th, or hell, even losing a 5th for Doug Gabriel. Thought you'd be all over that. Seriously. Cut the crap. We get it. You have a case of envy and jealousy and you're probably feeling like this is going to be a wasted year. Get over it. It's so old and drawn out.
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:48 AM    (permalink
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Alright, I won't get into the lolinternetswar(as much as I want to) but I will say this; every team is desperate. Every team will do whatever they think gives them the best shot at winning. And if they don't, they really aren't doing their jobs.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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I think they know Brady only has so many years left, that's all I'm gonna say. They are abandoning their old plan of being extremely careful to leave cap space and building in the draft and staying away from free agency for the most part.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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I think they know Brady only has so many years left, that's all I'm gonna say. They are abandoning their old plan of being extremely careful to leave cap space and building in the draft and staying away from free agency for the most part.
I agree. I think Belicheck leaves when Brady does and they want to get a few more under their belt. Belicheck was so pissed after losing last year and he definately wants some redemption.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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Just hand these guys the Lombardi trophy i would be shocked if they didn t at least make it to the Afc championship
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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I've learned not to criticize the Pats because I have too many times before and they made me eat my words.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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I've actually thought about this myself.

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that Belichick is gearing up for one last big run.....a final hurrah before riding off into the sunset.

Look at what the guy's accomplished....he won three Super Bowls in four years, and is already regarded as one of the truly elite coaches in the history of the game....arguably the best ever. The man is a living legend, and has accomplished far more in just a few years than most coaches accomplish in a lifetime.

Simply put, there's nothing left to prove....his place in football legend is set. There's no way he can improve....the only thing left is the inevitable decline, as Landry and Noll did toward the end of their careers.

And quite honestly, I'm not sure Belichick even enjoys it anymore. He sure doesn't look like he does. The only reason he's still doing it is because....that's what he does.

On Sirius radio, host Pat Kirwan related an anecdote: Kirwan was standing on the sideline in the final moments of an NFL coach's first Super Bowl victory. As Kirwan turned to offer his congratulations, the coach looked at him and said in all seriousness, "You know, Pat...this is it. This is what it's all about. The dream. And if this is what it is....then I'm not sure it's worth it." Kirwan refused to name the coach, but I have it pegged as either Parcells or Belichick....possibly Mike Holmgren. But my money's on Belichick.

Anyway...to bring my rant back on topic.....the Patriots know that all good things come to an end. Right now, they're stacking the deck....first, to give Belichick his grand sendoff, and to have a loaded roster for the next coach who comes in.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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I've actually thought about this myself.

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that Belichick is gearing up for one last big run.....a final hurrah before riding off into the sunset.

Look at what the guy's accomplished....he won three Super Bowls in four years, and is already regarded as one of the truly elite coaches in the history of the game....arguably the best ever. The man is a living legend, and has accomplished far more in just a few years than most coaches accomplish in a lifetime.

Simply put, there's nothing left to prove....his place in football legend is set. There's no way he can improve....the only thing left is the inevitable decline, as Landry and Noll did toward the end of their careers.

And quite honestly, I'm not sure Belichick even enjoys it anymore. He sure doesn't look like he does. The only reason he's still doing it is because....that's what he does.

On Sirius radio, host Pat Kirwan related an anecdote: Kirwan was standing on the sideline in the final moments of an NFL coach's first Super Bowl victory. As Kirwan turned to offer his congratulations, the coach looked at him and said in all seriousness, "You know, Pat...this is it. This is what it's all about. The dream. And if this is what it is....then I'm not sure it's worth it." Kirwan refused to name the coach, but I have it pegged as either Parcells or Belichick....possibly Mike Holmgren. But my money's on Belichick.

Anyway...to bring my rant back on topic.....the Patriots know that all good things come to an end. Right now, they're stacking the deck....first, to give Belichick his grand sendoff, and to have a loaded roster for the next coach who comes in.
Or he can come back home and coach the Giants!!
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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Or he can come back home and coach the Giants!!
Like I said.....the inevitable decline.


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Old 05-01-2007, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Or he can come back home and coach the Giants!!
I think its a legit possibility for the reasons he just posted. I was thinking the same exact thing.

All these moves he's made are very polarizing compared to his blueprint to success. It seems like he wants one final hurrah before he leaves.

The BP 3-4 back in NY baby! I would do backflips for 3 days straight if that ever happened.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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I see a last hurrah too, because this team has been extremely conscious of being cap-smart and building to maintain success over a long period of time, but not even remotely over spending in FA, and choosing to build in the draft. This is the exact opposite, so who knows.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Or he can come back home and coach the Giants!!
Not going to happen. Heard the same thing about Scott Pioli and his "dream" job. Never happened and I told you it would never happened.
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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I don't think the Patriots are desperate, they just want to do whatever it takes to win a Super Bowl before their window closes, like the Raiders' did a few years back. When all of their players start to get up in age, Tom Brady is 35 and whatnot, and people like Tedy Bruschi and Mike Vrabel have retired, then it's too late to win another Super Bowl with the current cast and then you need to rebuild. I would try and win as many Super Bowl as I can before my players are too old to.
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoinks View Post
I've actually thought about this myself.

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that Belichick is gearing up for one last big run.....a final hurrah before riding off into the sunset.

Look at what the guy's accomplished....he won three Super Bowls in four years, and is already regarded as one of the truly elite coaches in the history of the game....arguably the best ever. The man is a living legend, and has accomplished far more in just a few years than most coaches accomplish in a lifetime.

Simply put, there's nothing left to prove....his place in football legend is set. There's no way he can improve....the only thing left is the inevitable decline, as Landry and Noll did toward the end of their careers.

And quite honestly, I'm not sure Belichick even enjoys it anymore. He sure doesn't look like he does. The only reason he's still doing it is because....that's what he does.

On Sirius radio, host Pat Kirwan related an anecdote: Kirwan was standing on the sideline in the final moments of an NFL coach's first Super Bowl victory. As Kirwan turned to offer his congratulations, the coach looked at him and said in all seriousness, "You know, Pat...this is it. This is what it's all about. The dream. And if this is what it is....then I'm not sure it's worth it." Kirwan refused to name the coach, but I have it pegged as either Parcells or Belichick....possibly Mike Holmgren. But my money's on Belichick.

Anyway...to bring my rant back on topic.....the Patriots know that all good things come to an end. Right now, they're stacking the deck....first, to give Belichick his grand sendoff, and to have a loaded roster for the next coach who comes in.
I think the coach Kirwan was talkin about was Bill Cowher
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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No I dont think the Patriots are getting desperate. I think its more of them having supreme confidence in themselves. Guys like Randy Moss, Stallworth, Merriweather, Kelley Washington...other guys might have stayed away from them but the Pats have confidence that anyone they bring into their locker room will get their head straight. And so far, the Pats have been right, but this will really be putting their veteran leadership and coaches to the test to see if they can get these guys to work hard, stay out of trouble and buy into the whole philosophy.

Another element of it is that the Patriots over the last few years had been pretty content with their roster. They didnt make big signings and they let vets walk when they asked for paydays. During the 06 season, the Pats were good but not dominant and they failed to make the superbowl b/c of a 2nd half breakdown. I think the feeling after that season in the Patriot front office was it was time to reload in talent. After pinching pennies the past couple years they had the cap room to make a splash in FA so they did that to give Bellichick some major talent to work with. In Randy Moss, they saw the opportunity to bring in a great talent for a cheap price and see if Bellichik can get him turned around, he could turn out to be a HOFer still in his prime. He restructured and he only cost them a 4th rounder so I dont see the harm.

Clearly, the Patriots are thinking superbowl this year and with these moves they should be the favorite. They still have a lot of continuity on the roster so its not as if this is like a redskin team with a whole lot of talented players but not much chemistry. I would describe the Patriots as aggresive, but not desperate because all the moves they made were smart IMO and well thought out. Making Adam Archuleta one of the highest paid safeties in the league...that is a desperate move, giving up what NY did for Eli a few years back was a desperate move. The Pats are aggressively improving their team without overpaying. Are they risking their team chemistry with these moves? Yes, and that is a cause for concern, but its hard to believe that Randy Moss could destroy the chemistry of a team with 3 rings that includes leaders like Brady, Seymour, Bruschi, Harrison, etc. Moss will buy into their philosophy or he will find himself sitting on the bench and gone the next offseason b/c Bellichick is not going to put up with any nonsense from him, b/c he doesnt need Randy to win. Also, that defense was slipping a little bit last year but by adding Thomas and Merriweather, they should be much better. Merriweather is a playmaker in coverage which is just what this team needs and Thomas should improve their pass-rush, which needs help but he is so versatile that he will also help them a lot in coverage.

This is all coming from a bitter raider fan who still roots hard against the Patriots. But I can recognize greatness when it is there and what the Patriots have been doing is great and the way the switched gears this offseason was really quite masterful IMO. And for those who feel differently, we all owe the Patriots the benefit of the doubt b/c theyve made so many other questionable moves that turned out great.
Great Response. + Rep.

I'm disappointed that no one else in the thread reponded to it.



On thing a friend (A Giants fan) said to me yesterday was "The Patriots are starting to feel like the Redskins." And while they aren't yet on that level, they are signing malcontents and risky players to good sized money. The Skins would have extended Moss, and the Pats shortened him, but the point still stands that they aren't the team everyone thinks of them as. No longer are they all about Character and good business moves. They are now like so many other teams, all about winning right away.
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Great Response. + Rep.

I'm disappointed that no one else in the thread reponded to it.



On thing a friend (A Giants fan) said to me yesterday was "The Patriots are starting to feel like the Redskins." And while they aren't yet on that level, they are signing malcontents and risky players to good sized money. The Skins would have extended Moss, and the Pats shortened him, but the point still stands that they aren't the team everyone thinks of them as. No longer are they all about Character and good business moves. They are now like so many other teams, all about winning right away.
Were you agreeing with that Giants fan, or pointing out what he said and taking an opposite view...

because if you were agreeing with it, I would have a problem with just about all of that quote.
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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Were you agreeing with that Giants fan, or pointing out what he said and taking an opposite view...

because if you were agreeing with it, I would have a problem with just about all of that quote.
I wasn't agreeing with him, just saying that he does have a point.
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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I think so. I don't see Stallworth and Moss working well together. When Stallworth was with the Saints let's just say he didn't seem like a locker room guy, and Moss is Moss. This is doomed to fail.
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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I wasn't agreeing with him, just saying that he does have a point.
Okay, I just don't think there is much of a point there...maybe about them caring less about charater concerns, but that could also be based around some of the high character guys the Pats have...(there are some who I do feel have no character or class at all)...

But when it comes to just looking at a Super Bowl this year only, that goes against everything they have done for a while now. Not only that, but bringing in high profile guys does not mean that they are only looking at one year. The Patriots still have their eye on the future, they've just reloaded some talent. I think that's what Thechampishere was trying to say, and you quoted him on it. I think what he meant is that though they are looking at the Super Bowl this year they aren't blowing all their cap like other teams have done to do it. Moss restructured, and the management their is too good to blow it all on one year.
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Old 05-01-2007, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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I think so. I don't see Stallworth and Moss working well together. When Stallworth was with the Saints let's just say he didn't seem like a locker room guy, and Moss is Moss. This is doomed to fail.
i have to agree with that. both guys are going to want the ball and while brady is known to spread it around, is it going to be enough. can these guys let go of their egos and play for the TEAM? and what does this say to chad jackson who the pats moved up to take last year if im not mistaken
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Old 05-01-2007, 02:04 PM    (permalink
Jay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by constant cough View Post
I think so. I don't see Stallworth and Moss working well together. When Stallworth was with the Saints let's just say he didn't seem like a locker room guy, and Moss is Moss. This is doomed to fail.
This worries me the least. I don't think people outside of New England truly understand the atmosphere that has been created in the New England locker room. New guys either get with the program, or get gone.There is a system in place that has been proven to be successful (you know, the whole 3 SB thing?) and from the moment guys walk in the door, the veterans who have been there show them how it is. There is a huge level of personal accountability.

This is going to be fun. A LOT of fun. And don't think that these guys don't sense that. The Patriots team structure and winning will change them, just like it has changed every-single-player that has walked through those doors.

Until someone walks in and proves the system wrong, I am going to believe the Pats can change anyone. Because they have. And they will keep doing so.
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Old 05-01-2007, 02:07 PM    (permalink
Non_Sequitur
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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
This worries me the least. I don't think people outside of New England truly understand the atmosphere that has been created in the New England locker room. New guys either get with the program, or get gone.There is a system in place that has been proven to be successful (you know, the whole 3 SB thing?) and from the moment guys walk in the door, the veterans who have been there show them how it is. There is a huge level of personal accountability.

This is going to be fun. A LOT of fun. And don't think that these guys don't sense that. The Patriots team structure and winning will change them, just like it has changed every-single-player that has walked through those doors.

Until someone walks in and proves the system wrong, I am going to believe the Pats can change anyone. Because they have. And they will keep doing so.
Who have they changed?
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