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Old 05-03-2009, 03:48 PM    (permalink
Rob S
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I am 100% in support of this motion
you should get him on a sig fisch
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Old 05-03-2009, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Vox Populi
I think this was an absolutely terrible offseason for the Bills.

Pick up a malcontent WR for a year
Lose a top 5 Left Tackle
Let Nickle/#2 CB go
--
Pick up no one on defense
Draft interior OL

The only thing we did that I liked was draft Shawn Nelson. I'll take him in the 4th over Pettigrew in the 1st. I wish we picked up Oher with #11 though. We'd be looking damn fine for the future with this:

Oher/Walker - Wood - Hangartner - Levitre - Walker/Oher

Thats 3 talented young linemen for the future. I really like the Wood pick, not going to lie about that. Hes going to be a beast I think. We really didn't improve this offseason though, the only place we improved was at tight-end and receiver, and the receiver will only be around for a year and could **** things up while hes around. We'll be 6-10 to 9-7 next year. We should do better in the division though.
I take it you're not a Maybin fan. Not a mention of our top pick in there.
I can't disagree with being upset that our only defensive signings were Pat Thomas and Drayton Florence, who pretty much blow. The #11 and #42 picks should help us, though neither is guaranteed to get a lot of time early on.

I don't see the Owens signing as a negative. I'll eat some crow if Edwards melts down, but he's a huge improvement and I love having him during this time that Hardy certainly won't be breaking out.

The Peters situation was difficult. We got young line help in return, but it really hurts us at a most important position.
I was also on the Oher bandwagon at #11. I don't like having to rely on Walker-Butler/Chambers. I'm hoping for the best, they're big guys that have been solid contributors on our line, but these position changes have me worried.

Last edited by SuperMcGee : 05-03-2009 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 05-03-2009, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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you should get him on a sig fisch
Maybe Rob, I promised to sport the Neill sig until he gets cut or even dies, so we'll see.

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Originally Posted by SuperMcgee
I take it you're not a Maybin fan. Not a mention of our top pick in there.
I can't disagree with being upset that our only defensive signings were Pat Thomas and Drayton Florence, who pretty much blow. The #11 and #42 picks should help us, though neither is guaranteed to get a lot of time early on.

I don't see the Owens signing as a negative. I'll eat some crow if Edwards melts down, but he's a huge improvement and I love having him during this time that Hardy certainly won't be breaking out.

The Peters situation was difficult. We got young line help in return, but it really hurts us at a most important position.
I was also on the Oher bandwagon at #11. I don't like having to rely on Walker-Butler/Chambers. I'm hoping for the best, they're big guys that have been solid contributors on our line, but these position changes have me worried.
No matter how Owens shores up the offense, he's still a locker room distraction. And with team leaders such as Jabari being gone and the possibility of George Wilson being cut, I could see team chemistry being a problem.

I wouldn't say I was on the Oher bandwagon but most definitely I wouldn't be discontent with the pick at all. And Vox, you can't assume that the rest of the first day would've gone the same way, that's just stupid.
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Old 05-03-2009, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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Who is that black QB?
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Old 05-03-2009, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Maybe Rob, I promised to sport the Neill sig until he gets cut or even dies, so we'll see.



No matter how Owens shores up the offense, he's still a locker room distraction. And with team leaders such as Jabari being gone and the possibility of George Wilson being cut, I could see team chemistry being a problem.

I wouldn't say I was on the Oher bandwagon but most definitely I wouldn't be discontent with the pick at all. And Vox, you can't assume that the rest of the first day would've gone the same way, that's just stupid.
Well no kidding, I'm just saying if I could change one of the selections and pick someone else who was still available at the time I'd do Oher over Maybin every day of the week.

And yeah, I don't have much confidence in Maybin, I had him rated behind English, Orakpo and Everette Brown. Ideally, we would have traded down at that spot to 15 or something and picked up Larry English (Yeah, I had him as my highest rated End), Pettigrew or Oher at that spot where they'd be more palatable.

I'm really big on the Wood and Nelson picks though, of course. I had Wood rated as my top center and guard and thought Nelson would go in round two. The Nic Harris pick was nice too. Bobby April should be able to turn him into a Special Teams monster until he is capable of playing Linebacker even as a backup for us.

I didn't like the Byrd pick at all, way too early for us to be picking up a corner, and now that I've got the ability to use hindsight, we could have picked up some good nickel backs a lot later in the draft too. LeVitre was my 2nd guard on the board, so we cleaned up there and should have two new starters on day one out of him and Wood.

Cary Harris and Ellis "The Sex" Lankster seem like wasted picks to me. We've already got a bunch of bodies with experience in the defensive backfield who are pretty easy contracts to hold, we should have at gone after another player in the trenches with those picks. A.Q. Shipley or Jonathan Luigs would have been good pickups late, Lydon Murtha as well. Will Davis (DE Illinois) would have been a great pickup in the 6th as well if we were looking there with the pick.

Basically, not a fan of the Maybin, Byrd, Cary Harris or "The Sex"Lankster picks based on who was available. The Wood, LeVitre, Harris and Nelson picks were great though. Obviously I have different ideas as to what the Bills needed and who the BPA's were, but I'm not that impressed with our draft.

Last edited by Rob S : 05-03-2009 at 09:01 PM. Reason: The Sex must be included for all Ellis "the Sex" Lankster references
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Who is that black QB?
Daniel Polk 6'1" 202 lb QB from Midwestern State
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Maybe Rob, I promised to sport the Neill sig until he gets cut or even dies, so we'll see.
Imagine if "The Sex" can long snap.
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Daniel Polk 6'1" 202 lb QB from Midwestern State
Thanks Kevin, didn't see his name on any roster. I see he played WR, maybe our slash?

I'm intrigued by the signing of Gerald Washington, DE, formerly of USC. 6'7'', 318, ex-TE. He's 27 though, but I'll be looking forward to seeing what he can offer
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Imagine if "The Sex" can long snap.
That would totally be "The Sex". Greatness
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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Thanks Kevin, didn't see his name on any roster. I see he played WR, maybe our slash?

I'm intrigued by the signing of Gerald Washington, DE, formerly of USC. 6'7'', 318, ex-TE. He's 27 though, but I'll be looking forward to seeing what he can offer
He was on the list of 30 tryout players. He's the only black QB so it's him by default
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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He was on the list of 30 tryout players. He's the only black QB so it's him by default
Ahh found the list:

TE Cody Boyd – 6’8” 266 – Washington St.
LB Derek Burrell – 6’1” 229 – Kent St.
OL Ryan Considine – 6’4” 300 – Louisiana Tech
RB Rashad Cummings – 5’8” 203 – North Greenville
WR Jon Davis – 6’3” 210 – Azusa Pacific
RB Mike Davis – 5’9” 202 – South Carolina
DB Dante Dunn – 5’9” 186 – Wayne St.
LB Solomon Elimimian – 5’11” 225 - Hawaii
DE Ataefiok Etukeren – 6’3” 240 – Georgetown
WR De’cody Fagg – 6’1” 211 – Florida St.
WR Bradon Godfrey – 6’3” 201 – Utah
RB Justice Hairston – 6’1” 225 – Central Conn. St.
QB Cullen Harper – 6’2” 217 – Clemson
DB Tyrrell Herbert – 6’0” 200 – Toledo
TE Nate Lawrie – 6’6” 264 – Yale
OL Joe Longacre – 6’4” 307 – Arizona
OL Nick Marshman – 6’5” 358 – Virginia Tech
K/P Richmond McGee – 6’4” 207 – Texas
DE Jermaine McGhee – 6’2” 257 - Prairie View A&M
LB Joe Mortensen – 6’0” 240 – Kansas
WR Alonzo Phillips – 6’0” 190 – Florida International
QB Daniel Polk – 6’1” 202 – Midwestern St.
DB Erik Robinson – 5’11” 190 – Hawaii
QB Gary Rogers – 6’5” 243 – Washington St.
LS Garrison Sanborn – 6’0” 240 – Florida St.
DE Daman Suggs – 6’2” 251 – Georgia Southern
WR Dominique Thompson – 5’11” 206 – William & Mary
DB Kyle Ward – 6’1” 198 – Louisiana-Lafayette
RB Maurice Wells – 5’9” 190 – Ohio State
DB Rob Wilson – 5’10” 211 – Miami-Ohio

Very interesting to see Garrison Sanborn on the list. Was the second best LS coming out last year, behind Tim Bugg. I like Considine and Herbert as well. I remember Justise Hairston being an intriguing prospect, I think Fly liked him a lot Kevin, and he is a former 6th Round Pick
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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Ahh found the list:

TE Cody Boyd – 6’8” 266 – Washington St.
LB Derek Burrell – 6’1” 229 – Kent St.
OL Ryan Considine – 6’4” 300 – Louisiana Tech
RB Rashad Cummings – 5’8” 203 – North Greenville
WR Jon Davis – 6’3” 210 – Azusa Pacific
RB Mike Davis – 5’9” 202 – South Carolina
DB Dante Dunn – 5’9” 186 – Wayne St.
LB Solomon Elimimian – 5’11” 225 - Hawaii
DE Ataefiok Etukeren – 6’3” 240 – Georgetown
WR De’cody Fagg – 6’1” 211 – Florida St.
WR Bradon Godfrey – 6’3” 201 – Utah
RB Justice Hairston – 6’1” 225 – Central Conn. St.
QB Cullen Harper – 6’2” 217 – Clemson
DB Tyrrell Herbert – 6’0” 200 – Toledo
TE Nate Lawrie – 6’6” 264 – Yale
OL Joe Longacre – 6’4” 307 – Arizona
OL Nick Marshman – 6’5” 358 – Virginia Tech
K/P Richmond McGee – 6’4” 207 – Texas
DE Jermaine McGhee – 6’2” 257 - Prairie View A&M
LB Joe Mortensen – 6’0” 240 – Kansas
WR Alonzo Phillips – 6’0” 190 – Florida International
QB Daniel Polk – 6’1” 202 – Midwestern St.
DB Erik Robinson – 5’11” 190 – Hawaii
QB Gary Rogers – 6’5” 243 – Washington St.
LS Garrison Sanborn – 6’0” 240 – Florida St.
DE Daman Suggs – 6’2” 251 – Georgia Southern
WR Dominique Thompson – 5’11” 206 – William & Mary
DB Kyle Ward – 6’1” 198 – Louisiana-Lafayette
RB Maurice Wells – 5’9” 190 – Ohio State
DB Rob Wilson – 5’10” 211 – Miami-Ohio

Very interesting to see Garrison Sanborn on the list. Was the second best LS coming out last year, behind Tim Bugg. I like Considine and Herbert as well. I remember Justise Hairston being an intriguing prospect, I think Fly liked him a lot Kevin, and he is a former 6th Round Pick
Hairston was a former Rutgers RB too. He was pretty solid
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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Fagg is interesting in addition to the guys you mentioned
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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Hairston was a former Rutgers RB too. He was pretty solid
6'1'', 225, 4.5 40 time apparently. Interesting sign, will have to do a lot to break Rhodes/Omon/Hall
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Old 05-03-2009, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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6'1'', 225, 4.5 40 time apparently. Interesting sign, will have to do a lot to break Rhodes/Omon/Hall
Do any of you know anything about him?
Or should I go ask scotty? :)
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Just to add a few of my comments regarding the Bills Draft:

Round 1 (#11): Maybin, I love his professional demeanor. He is a classy player. He is not a three down player yet and his success will be greatly dependent upon when and how he is used this year. It's in the coaches hands now. With Schobel and Maybin on the ends greatly exposes the edges to running plays. Maybin's first steps are Javon Kearse quick, but he is still undeveloped, he doesn't currently have the inside moves to keep lineman off balance. I hope that his impact is much greater then what the majority of defensive ends have historically shown in their rookie years. I would have preferred OL here, but the draft unfolded as such to warrant the Maybin pick.

Round 1 (#28) and 2 (#42): Wood and Levitre. Love the picks. Finally the Bills have addressed the offensive lines, early and often. This is several years too late, but finally they began working on the interior and love the intelligence level of the line to which all have also been described with having a mean streak. Relieved that Levitre was acquired without sacrificing future picks. This made the draft for me.

Round 2 (#42): Byrd. The biggest problem I have with the Jairus Bird pick is what happened at the next pick. Not the selection of Everette Brown, but that San Francisco was able to get Carolina's first round pick in the 2010 draft for the second round pick and a fourth-rounder (111th overall). A Carolina team which is quarterbacked by Jake Delhomme. Jairus is a slower version of Malcolm Jenkins, and he is being converted to free safety. He has tremendous ball skills, is tough, but he ran so poorly leading up to the draft. Given that free safety, nor cornerback was a pressing need for the Bills, I would rather have had them use the opportunity to trade a second rounder and acquire a future first rounder. I would much rather have had the opportunity to select (or have picks to trade and acquire) a much better player today, in Eric Berry from Tennessee next year. Free Safety is just not viewed as a position of high demand in the NFL. The Bills made Super Bowls with Mark Kelso as their free safety.

Round 4 (#121): Nelson. Love the pick. Great value. The end.

Round 5 (#147): Nic Harris. Hate the pick. If they wanted someone like Cato June, why not just sign Cato June?! Harris' speed was bad and as a result is changing positions. I also question who and where he was going to get drafted because of his poor size, weight speed ratio for the safety and LB position. Furthermore, what makes me hate the pick the most is who was on the board, both Ingram and Casey. So we drafted Nelson, is there a problem to be deep at TE's who can work the seam? Develop Ingram like you are developing Harris. There is no competition at the TE roster spot, unlike the secondary. The three TE roster spots are already set in April! Houston already has Owen Daniels but essentially got a similar player by taking Casey. The Bills should have taken one of Ingram or Casey and hedge against Nelson and push all TE's on the roster.

Round 6 & 7: The cornerbacks. Enough already! Are the Bills again showing their cards that they will not resign McGee and/or Youboty next year? They need to aggressively shop one or both if that is the case. The Bills need to stop the revolving door process, losing starting corners to be replaced with draft picks to be lost again. The vicious cycle needs to stop. That philosophy has shown to be a recipe for mediocrity. Contrary to what Jauron says, you can have enough cornerbacks when you are 5 deep and especially have enough when you can make a compelling argument that you are not even 5 deep on the offensive line. Having a secondary now made up of a #8, #11, a second rounder, a third rounder and two fourth rounders drafted in the last 4 years, not even including McGee another fourth rounder, is excessive in my opinion, especially when the team went 7 years without spending a first day pick on an offensive lineman.

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Old 05-05-2009, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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We signed Sanborn!! Rejoice. Neill's days could be coming to an end...
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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We signed Sanborn!! Rejoice. Neill's days could be coming to an end...
Me......

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Old 05-07-2009, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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jizzed in his pants.....
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Old 05-07-2009, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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Aaron Maybin better work out because I'm going to be mad if we wasted a 1st rounder on him this year when there is an amazing DE class in 2010.
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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Aaron Maybin better work out because I'm going to be mad if we wasted a 1st rounder on him this year when there is an amazing DE class in 2010.
I agree, next years class is amazing. That said, I really think this team wants to make a bigtime run at the playoffs this year (idk if they can, but that seems to be the goal). If that is the plan, we absolutely needed to address our pass rush because if you cant get to the QB, you make life way harder on everyone on D. Aaron Maybin was the best pure pass rusher in the draft (not best DE imo, but best pass rusher) and therefore he was the fit. Now, I think he is going to have a tough time being a 3 down player with his size (altho he has showed some serious dedication with the weight gain), but he should be an absolute terror off the edge on third down (his first step is out of this world). There is no question our D was in desperate need of that. Now, the question is.....if that is all you get out of the #11 draft choice, is it good enough? I don't know.....I guess it depends just how good he is in that situation. You would of course prefer a guy that can go out there every down, but football is a situational game and a dynamic pass rusher on 3rd down is arguably the most critical situational defensive aspect of an NFL game. If he can be that terror on 3rd down, I personally would be content with the pick.....if he grows into a 3 down player it is one for the ages because that really is the only reason he fell.....that first step is special. I guess we just need to wait and see......like in all cases with the draft. Hopefully we find out sooner rather than later and he starts by flattening out Tom Brady week one on MNF.
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:40 AM    (permalink
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[quote=Rob S;1652667]I agree, next years class is amazing. That said, I really think this team wants to make a bigtime run at the playoffs this year (idk if they can, but that seems to be the goal).

If they were serious about any attempt at a run, they pay Peters and keep him happy. I'd rate our OL as pretty bad without Peters and I cannot see how they can make a significant run, in fact, I think they have serious problems winning 7 games again. What good is it signing Owens if Edwards is running for his life and has no time to throw the ball. Peters was also a solid run blocker and his loss will affect Lynch as well.
Teams just NEVER get rid of their LT's unless age is a factor and Buffalo's unwillingness to keep Peters happy, leaves a huge hole in the OL and you don't make playoff runs operating this way.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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[quote=Iamcanadian;1652860]
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I agree, next years class is amazing. That said, I really think this team wants to make a bigtime run at the playoffs this year (idk if they can, but that seems to be the goal).

If they were serious about any attempt at a run, they pay Peters and keep him happy. I'd rate our OL as pretty bad without Peters and I cannot see how they can make a significant run, in fact, I think they have serious problems winning 7 games again. What good is it signing Owens if Edwards is running for his life and has no time to throw the ball. Peters was also a solid run blocker and his loss will affect Lynch as well.
Teams just NEVER get rid of their LT's unless age is a factor and Buffalo's unwillingness to keep Peters happy, leaves a huge hole in the OL and you don't make playoff runs operating this way.
I am sure they wanted to keep Peters, but in the long run you dont pay a guy as the best LT in the league when you dont think he is: its simple. Just because they want to make a run doesnt mean they lock themselves into what could be one of the worst contracts in football if Peters plays like he did last year. Sorry, I'm not buying the Peters argument. I think making the playoffs is an immediate goal for the Bills (that is pretty clear with the TO signing) and I think they wanted to get Peters back. The fact is, whether winning now is your goal or not, you can't justify paying top LT money to someone you don't believe was going to play up to it, especially Buffalo where money is at a premium. They must have not been high on Peters as a top 3 LT in the NFL and if that is there assessment, fine: it was the right move regardless of their goals.

***To clear it up: I am in no way saying we will be better without Peters, we won't. However, I am saying that regardless of what a teams goal is, some decisions have too high of a catastrophic potential to make even when they fit your goals nicely. I think the Bills clearly felt this was one of them when they combined Peters' play last year and his attitude.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:01 AM    (permalink
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I'll admit we'll likely take a step back this year with the possibility of having 5 new starters on the OL. My only hope is that they don't blame the issues on Edwards(even though I don't think he's a franchise QB) because then we'll have to start all over again in 2010.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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I'm really impressed with Maybin as a person and his first step but my expectations are low for him. He is after all a defensive end and rookie defensive ends just don't have a significant impact year one. His speed will eventually be negated when teams see what he does and scheme against it. It will be his ability to develop inside moves to keep OL off balance is what will truly make him an excellent pass rusher. If he can develop it quickly as a rookie, he will have a significant impact year one. Coaching will have to put him in the right places at the right time since he is in a 4-3, and not an OLB in a 3-4. If he and Schobel are in at the same time, the edges are exposed for rushes.

I do not like that Ellis, if he does not emerge, is a wasted third rounder. Right now the RDE is three deep with Maybin, Schobel and Ellis. If Ellis can develop into at least the back-up to Maybin making Schobel and his contract expendable, great.

What I like about the 2010 draft is that there are DEs and DTs that are stout and can rush the passer (Dunlap, Griffen, Hardy, Graham etc.), therefore Buffalo should target a LDE in the draft next year to finally replace Kelsay (and his contract) and Denney who is a free agent. Johnson can be the depth and/or transition.

Furthermore, it's not like Buffalo plays in a controlled environment (like a dome). Speed in games like the one in Cleveland two years ago or the last game against the Patriots in the Wind Bowl gets negated when teams don't throw and pound the ball. Buffalo plays games, and if fortunate enough to make the playoffs, play games in inclement weather. Speed and quickness combined with technique and stoutness is what is ideal for a defensive end in Buffalo.

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