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Old 12-13-2013, 08:01 AM    (permalink
Wootylicous
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I picked Jason Verrett in the forum mock and I'm trying to trade Montee Ball. Success ?
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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the biggest problem to me, and i didn't watch most of the second half out of disgust so maybe i missed something else, is our secondary is completely disorganized and either no one knows what their job is, or no one's bothering to do it. i can't count the number of times we appear to be in a zone, only to watch a TE or WR run free across the field without anyone taking so much as a second glance. it's to the point where an opposing team has to actually *try* to fail to convert on third down. our defense just got swallowed every time i saw them try to run it last night.

meh. short week, whatever. most of the mistakes i saw in the first half were mental, either on JDR's side, or on the player's side. that team isn't a team that does much more than get blown out in the first round, unless peyton basically john elway's them.
Rahim Moore would be useful to have back. He isnt awesome, but he is better back there than anyone else we have.

It was good to have DRC back. Webster wasnt actually that bad yesterday, despite how much he was picked on. His coverage was okay, but Rivers threw the ball really well and his receivers catch the ball better than ours. Hard to say if champ can improve the def come playoff time, but harris and webster arent exactly playing great.

I think we are missing vickerson and wolfe a bit too, especially in run def.

Holliday is awful, and too often our coverage on kicks is screwing up.

Our def and special teams dont need to be great, but they cant be awful, and right now they are pretty awful. Hopefully we spend the next few weeks getting healthy and then things improve a bit.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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I think we are missing vickerson and wolfe a bit too, especially in run def.
Absolutely. The depth along the DL we had earlier in the season is gone... and that depth helped to compensate for the fact we didn't have any high impact guys.

The defense overall is a confused mess. We've got guys coming off injuries, guys who are injury replacements and inexperienced guys being asked to do more than they are probably able to handle at this point.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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decker really was apparently listening a few weeks ago.
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:46 AM    (permalink
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decker really was apparently listening a few weeks ago.
Yep, he's manned up a bit which is good to see.

Del Rio still bringing out the 3-man rushes and ****** zone coverages. Texans had two big plays off what looked to be our guys inability to transition receivers from one zone to another.

Trevathan is the new Woodyard - the kid really comes to play. Not sure what's going on with the old Woodyard... he must be really banged up or in the doghouse to have Paris Lenon starting.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:45 AM    (permalink
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woodyard's defining play for me, was when he gave up a 1st on (i think) a 3rd and long. the problem was, that he caught up to the guy before the first down marker and then spent the next five yards trying to strip the ball, instead of just making the tackle and getting the ball back on a punt. woodyard last year makes the right play there.

and yes, i still hate del rio. i don't know that there's anyone better, or anyone i'd rather have, but some of the defenses we line up are... interesting.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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Wade Phillips will be available. Fox will never fire Del Rio though. He's stubbornly loyal to his assistants like Coughlin is.

Stubbornly loyal to veterans too.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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jdr will go to usc. i doubt phillips would want to come back under bowlen, but who knows. bowlen's senile enough to have no idea that it happened.

that said, doesn't phillips run a 34? we'd basically have to turn over the entire front seven yet again. we'd be another 5 years from playing competent defense.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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It's really a 4-3 under disguised as a 3-4.

No one really runs a traditional 3-4 defense anymore.
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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It's really a 4-3 under disguised as a 3-4
Basically, the open-side DE plays from a 2-point stance and thus is considered a LB even though he has DE-esque responsibilities?

We run a lot of 4-3 under already because it put Von on the LOS where he could do the most damage.
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Basically, the open-side DE plays from a 2-point stance and thus is considered a LB even though he has DE-esque responsibilities?

We run a lot of 4-3 under already because it put Von on the LOS where he could do the most damage.
Basically, your RE would be standing up instead of a 3 point stance, and your LE would be more of a 5 tech. That's the only difference.
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Old 12-25-2013, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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Basically, your RE would be standing up instead of a 3 point stance, and your LE would be more of a 5 tech. That's the only difference.
I wonder if perhaps Trent Murphy from Stanford would fit nicely into that "standing DE" role...
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Old 12-25-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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isn't that derek wolfe's role, when he's healthy? that or he's positionless, since he's not a dt in any scheme.
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Old 12-25-2013, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Denver Broncos draft

1. Jason Verrett, CB
2. Zack Martin, OT/OG
3. Adrian Hubbard, LB/DE
5. Yawin Smallwood, LB
5. Jimmie Ward, S
6. Tyler Gaffney, RB
7. Tevin Reese, WR/KR

This is what I got in the forum mock. Fire away!
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Old 12-25-2013, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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i don't buy ot/g as a position of need at a second round level, but if martin was BPA, then i wouldn't argue with the pick.
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Old 12-26-2013, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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isn't that derek wolfe's role, when he's healthy? that or he's positionless, since he's not a dt in any scheme.
Wolfe is a tweener DT/DE, so it would seem the strong side DE spot next to Von would be a good place for him. Then bring in someone with a little more pass rush ability to play DE on the weak side, creating more consistent pressure on the pocket like we had with the Doom-Miller combo the previous season.

The problem is that we already have a bit of a logjam on the DL when everyone is healthy. Ayers is serviceable, Malik Jackson is making a strong case for more playing time and Phillips has been productive. We probably need to let some of these guys walk in FA and then go after someone in the draft/FA who would be a clear upgrade for the line.
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Old 12-26-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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i don't see it in the draft, at our spot, but who knows. that said, i'd rather not spend another year messing with the front 4, unless there's some warren sapp-like drop. especially if it's just because we brought in a DC who doesn't fit the personnel.
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Old 12-26-2013, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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i don't see it in the draft, at our spot, but who knows. that said, i'd rather not spend another year messing with the front 4, unless there's some warren sapp-like drop. especially if it's just because we brought in a DC who doesn't fit the personnel.
Agreed - the back seven need the help more. MLB, S, CB... all need to be addressed before DE.
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Old 12-26-2013, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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Denver Broncos draft

1. Jason Verrett, CB
2. Zack Martin, OT/OG
3. Adrian Hubbard, LB/DE
5. Yawin Smallwood, LB
5. Jimmie Ward, S
6. Tyler Gaffney, RB
7. Tevin Reese, WR/KR

This is what I got in the forum mock. Fire away!
* CB is definitely a need, so that's good.
* Martin's toughness would be a welcome change from Beadles.
* Not a fan of Hubbard - he kinda disappeared this season after a lot of hype.
* Smallwood in round 5 seems like a bit of a steal to me and lines up with how the Broncos have drafted LBs the last few seasons.
* Ward is an okay pick but I'm not sure we can be waiting until late in round 5 to be addressing the S spot
* Reese seems a little like Trindon Holliday Mk 2. From the games I've seen his hands aren't great - is he more reliable as a returner?
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Agreed - the back seven need the help more. MLB, S, CB... all need to be addressed before DE.
Here's a question for you all. How much of the secondary issues would you attribute to our opponents simply being forced to pass the ball at a much higher volume? I'm obviously not looking to ignore defensive ineptitude, but I feel like we gave up a lot of garbage time yardage and were simply dealt with a lot more pass plays than the average team due to our offensive efficiency.

We had the 6th most passes thrown against us, but finished 16th in the league in yards per play (tied with 3 teams). That's somewhat encouraging.

Again, we gave up the 4th most first downs in the league, but had the 15th best first down percentage in the league. This again points to sheer volume of passing plays against us due to big leads - and not so much a huge defensive ineptitude.

While I'm all for shoring up the secondary, it's inevitable that we're not going to have a "good" passing defense on paper with a QB this good. The difference between our yards passing per game allowed and a top 10 defenses' is about 25 per game, and that's going to be EASILY covered in garbage time during at least 10 games a year until Peyton retires.

I wonder whether it's really possible to have an elite pass defense with a QB like Peyton. I think you have to almost bite the bullet and say, "Hey, this is what you get for having a H.O.F. QB in this era."

I'll say that this was statistical analysis and not an evaluation of individual performance. We'll obviously be able to point to individual players and demand improvement. But I'd still say that these players get a raw deal playing with P.M.

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Old 01-02-2014, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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*shrug* the players have looked awful. stats can't hide that chris harris can't cover a toddler in a sandbox, that champ looks senile, our safeties are slower than vince wilfork and that our defensive gameplan is horrific.

i get what you're saying, but it's just not borne out by what i see on the field.
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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Denver gave up the 3rd fewest passing yards in the league last season, and that was with Manning at QB as well. They just weren't good defensively this year, for a variety of reasons. Von basically taking the year off certainly hurt, as Denver dropped from being tied for 1st last year in sacks with 52 to being 14th this year with 41, champ being a shell of his former self etc
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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*shrug* the players have looked awful. stats can't hide that chris harris can't cover a toddler in a sandbox, that champ looks senile, our safeties are slower than vince wilfork and that our defensive gameplan is horrific.

i get what you're saying, but it's just not borne out by what i see on the field.
I'll say that at during his rookie season, Harris was a competent player. I don't know what happened between that point and now, but it's either injury related, or scheme related. And I find it hard to blame a guy for playing like **** in a garbage scheme. Maybe he's just being asked to do more than he previously was, but he sure was useful back in 2011.

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Denver gave up the 3rd fewest passing yards in the league last season, and that was with Manning at QB as well. They just weren't good defensively this year, for a variety of reasons. Von basically taking the year off certainly hurt, as Denver dropped from being tied for 1st last year in sacks with 52 to being 14th this year with 41, champ being a shell of his former self etc
valid point, I think it must come back to not having that 1B pass rush pressure.
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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I'll say that at during his rookie season, Harris was a competent player. I don't know what happened between that point and now, but it's either injury related, or scheme related. And I find it hard to blame a guy for playing like **** in a garbage scheme. Maybe he's just being asked to do more than he previously was, but he sure was useful back in 2011.
he was great last year. anyone he was on was basically taken out of the game. this year he's just getting beat. and i don't feel like it's even been a pass rush issue (though i agree with both of you that that has stunk). i haven't kept a count or anything, but it feels like there are a lot of 2-3 second completions against him, and a lot of double moves where he's just getting killed. that said, JDR's 'pretend to play a wide, prevent but don't actually cover anyone' defensive scheme can't be helping. i have no idea what he's calling half of the time, but he should really throw out a few of those pages in the playbook.
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:19 AM    (permalink
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Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Injuries and Von's suspension are pretty much the tale of the tape this year. Those factors have forced guys like Harris to carry more of the load than expected.

Champ missing pretty much the whole season has been particularly problematic. We've relied on his man coverage ability to lock down one guy for so long it's like the scheme has been upset by his absence. Throw in a significant dose of instability at safety and some growing pains by our young CBs and it is no surprise we've struggled in coverage. I think the coaching staff have tried to bandage this throwing in more zone coverages and dropping more people back... with very mixed results.

Does having the #1 offense force other teams to throw more? Definitely. But even with that effect, we haven't been getting the kind of secondary play we need on a regular basis (other than DRC, who has been pretty solid). Looking at the draft/FA from that perspective, we've pretty much got to plan on replacing Champ and I don't see either safety spot as being locked up either.
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