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Old 01-05-2011, 09:55 PM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
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I think I might be the worst fan in sports, when it comes to teams. I'm a fan of:

Us(2nd worst in the league)
New Jersey Devils(worst team in NHL by 8 points)
Cleveland Cavaliers
Canada(******* biggest choke of all time. Yes, bigger than us choking our 3 game lead with 3 games to go, and our 6-0 start to finish 8-8. COMBINED)
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:16 AM    (permalink
Jimmy
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Originally Posted by MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) View Post
I think I might be the worst fan in sports, when it comes to teams. I'm a fan of:

Us(2nd worst in the league)
New Jersey Devils(worst team in NHL by 8 points)
Cleveland Cavaliers
Canada(******* biggest choke of all time. Yes, bigger than us choking our 3 game lead with 3 games to go, and our 6-0 start to finish 8-8. COMBINED)

I say it was the original name change you made. everything went down hill right around the time you got rid of chris, and it keeps getting worse.
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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schefter saying we cancelled/postponed our interview with mularkey. this is interesting...he seemed to be the early favorite for the job. i'm hoping for rivera, but for some reason we haven't expressed interest in him as far as i know.
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Old 01-06-2011, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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schefter saying we cancelled/postponed our interview with mularkey. this is interesting...he seemed to be the early favorite for the job. i'm hoping for rivera, but for some reason we haven't expressed interest in him as far as i know.
From the stuff the Atl J-C has been posting, it looks like he is out of the running for the job.

I keep hearing rumors that that our top choice is someone who we haven't gotten permission to speak to yet. Perhaps Mularkey got wind of that and decided he didn't want to be a token candidate?

I don't think this is a huge loss.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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the luck decision obviously sucks. we no longer have the choice of any player we want.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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meh. i don't think it changes much. i have to guess bowers or like, green goes first. that still leaves us pretty open.
you're right, idk. i guess knowing luck was going #1 was almost like having a #1 pick of our own though. chances are we get our guy.

btw- can't wait to see PP play tomorrow. 8 PM EST. he's really the only guy that we are likely to draft that would fit flawlessly regardless of the headcoach. not sure if drafting a corner is the best way to turn this team around as even Champ himself couldn't get this team where it needed to be even in his prime. but he certainly would be great building block
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Also, i'm sure you guys know already but in case you don't-
tune into ESPN 7 PM EST tonight. There's some Tebow documentary on.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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Also, i'm sure you guys know already but in case you don't-
tune into ESPN 7 PM EST tonight. There's some Tebow documentary on.
I expected more on the documentary .But it was still a fun show to watch just see and learn how much mental crap he had go threw in changing his motion and up to draft day.I was hoping they would have done more of the first two of his starts in Denver was still a good watch.
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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I expected more on the documentary .But it was still a fun show to watch just see and learn how much mental crap he had go threw in changing his motion and up to draft day.I was hoping they would have done more of the first two of his starts in Denver was still a good watch.
it was created way before his first two starts though. filming ended a while ago. i LOVED it. definitely makes me a fan of the guy.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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i dunno about that. for a while, champ was the only thing making the defense even remotely respectable. i have no doubt, for instance, we wouldn't have come anywhere near the AFCCG a few years ago without him.
For what it is worth (which is probably not much), Woody Paige in the Denverpost believes that Champ will be back with the Broncos. Apparently Champ would come back as long as he doesnt have to take a pay cut and he thinks the Broncos are heading in the right direction.

I only find this interesting as I had thought it was a done deal that Champ would leave.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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I just don't think a corner has the impact other guys do. I'd love to take him if he could play safety.
The draft has a lot of good defensive linemen so trading down..
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:10 PM    (permalink
Jimmy
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i dunno about that. for a while, champ was the only thing making the defense even remotely respectable. i have no doubt, for instance, we wouldn't have come anywhere near the AFCCG a few years ago without him.
How are we any better off than back in 2006 if we draft PP and loose Champ, though? Here we are, talking about how we need to put the pieces together, and were looking to essentially construct a team with the same foundation as when we started to plummet.

When I said Champ couldn't get us where we needed to be, I meant winning a Superbowl, not simply being "respectable" as a unit. Champ was the best corner in the game a few years ago, but he couldn't do it alone, and that should tell everyone upstairs that PP won't be able to do it alone either.

Darrent Williams. Kelly Herndon. Dre Bly. Andre Goodman. Perrish Cox.

I think it's become blatantly apparent that no matter how locked down the left side is, teams can just stay away from Champ and pick on #2, even if PP develops into the next #24, we still have to address our front 7. Do we need to address the corner position eventually? Yep, but at this point in time, we all know it's not the most pressing need.

One thing that has remained constant the last few years is that we've had atrocious pass rush. No matter how good Champ plays, we've always had issues on the other half of the field. We've never been the stellar pass defense that you'd expect with him. We've had a few top 10 seasons pass defense wise. Nothing that would make me ooh or ahh.

Back too PP, he will have to work his ass off to touch where Champ was 4 years ago, and even then, we will need a more talented front 7... Having a stud corner is a luxury, but it is nowhere near as important as having a solid front 7, IMO.

I just don't think corner is the most pressing need. Do I think Padlock Peterson or whatever we want to call him is the BPA? Yes, I have him slightly higher than Dareus at this point. I think he's the best corner prospect in years, and I LOVE me a talented corner. But if we take him and don't address the front 7, we're back in 2006 again, with an elite corner and a mediocre to subpar defense.

I will not complain or be upset if we draft him. We'd be getting a future pro bowler. I'd just prefer a stud DL.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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I will not complain or be upset if we draft him. We'd be getting a future pro bowler. I'd just prefer a stud DL.
I think the counter-argument though is that it is debatable how much of a stud DL you are getting this year at #2. None of the DL guys this year are as good of a prospect as Suh or McCoy from last year. Will they be dominant in the NFL, or just good? There will also be DL guys available at the start of the second that will make good NFL starters. The question then becomes which combination are we better off with - DL/CB or CB/DL with our first two picks.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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I think the counter-argument though is that it is debatable how much of a stud DL you are getting this year at #2. None of the DL guys this year are as good of a prospect as Suh or McCoy from last year. Will they be dominant in the NFL, or just good? There will also be DL guys available at the start of the second that will make good NFL starters. The question then becomes which combination are we better off with - DL/CB or CB/DL with our first two picks.
I think Dareus will be a Suh type talent if he plays 3-4 end. I say Suh because I can't think of a powerful, stud 3-4 DE off the top of my head for w/e reason. BUT I mean it when I say it; I have no clue if the kid is a complete headcase with no work ethic, or if he's really truly got his head on straight. We'll have to wait for the media to expose that, one way or another.

So, maybe we trade down a few spots and grab him. I think he's worth the #2 if it turns out he's a good guy. But... I'd rather stockpile anyway. If he does play 4-3 tackle for us, I truly believe he is a pro bowl level talent coming out, and has the potential to be as good as anyone.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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dareus is nothing like suh, and 34 DEs will never have that kind of impact.
Statistically, they will never have an impact. I don't really care about stats in this situation, because presence wise, they have an enormous impact. Do I care if a corner will make our team a little better than a 3-4 end singlehandedly would? No, not really. Because there are 10 (edit: 10 other) men on the field, and like I said, I don't want to be back in '06, where CB is our strength, with a bunch of questions everywhere else. We can't ignore the front 7 any longer, and the main thing is that taking a CB and putting off the front 7 till round 2 or 3 increases the odds that we won't have a solid front 7 any time soon.

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now, why is there this false choice? what, we take PP, then go TE, TE, TE the rest of the draft? there are some fantastic values for the 34 from the 2-3 round, imo,
Like I said, going 3-4 round 2 or 3 decreases the odds that we have a solid front 7 any time soon, as opposed to selecting a guy round 1, whether it be trading down or not. IMHO.

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and i don't think it's even a little unreasonable to take peterson first
I don't think it's unreasonable either. I've expressed my PP opinion serveral times, I think he's the best corner prospect in years. I agree with you and this entire board here.

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given that he presents a FAR better return on the pick than dareus or fairley ever would.

Awesome to see somebody finally developed time travel.

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further, champ made that defense respectable, rather than the worst defense in the league by far. sort of like dumervil did last year. that's a MASSIVE contribution from one guy out of eleven.
I'm not looking for individual contributions though, I'm looking for someone to make our defense as a whole better, in the run and the pass game. That's what we need. I think were better off as a unit in 2-3 years with an extra piece in the front 7, as opposed to Champ 2.0. Once again, having an elite CB is a luxury, having a front 7 is a necessity to win in this league. I'd rather address necessity. For me, once again, it's a matter of odds, and odds are have a better front 7 if we take a better prospect.

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i don't give a flying **** if the qb just goes the other way. that's like saying, 'i'd rather have jarvis moss, because if we had asomugha or revis, the qb would just throw to someone else'. yes, it's that silly.
That's just an attempt to make me look stupid (which you're usually very good at) but it really has nothing to do with what I said.

Seriously though... Jarvis Moss? The biggest bust in Broncos history? At the very least, you could substitute an elite DE in that sentence and still make exact the same point. You may think I'm stupid, I don't know. I'm not Terry Schaivo, though.

Let me *for the final time* reconstruct that sentence for you:
"I'd rather have a solid DE (Jarvis Moss, apparently) because at least that way, we can generate some sort of pressure, whether it be through run defense or pass rush. We both know those two things make it harder for said quarterback to pick apart defenses, defenses that said quarterback would easily be able to pick apart, even with a star corner like Bailey. Sure, we can take a solid DT later, but we can also take a solid corner later. Obviously, PP is dynamic, but I'm convinced Dareus is almost as talented at his respective position.

I agree with you, players like Champ prove it is possible to make a unit look half decent when underneath it all, they suck. However, one more stud DE/DT is one more stud player where we truly need it... If we pull the trigger round 1 as opposed to round 2, we're better off in that sense.

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if we want to go DL in the first (and stay 34), we trade down. period.
I'd rather stockpile and get our guy, whoever it may be for sure. But making this finite statement that "we absolutely MUST trade down if were gonna take a DE/DT, when it's only JANUARY, with plenty of room for draftniks for jizz their pants over any prospect, is just plain premature. Especially when Dareus' stock is rising at this point.

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there isn't any way any 34 DL has really ever been worth the #2 overall pick.
Okay, well in that case, CB has never been worthy of the #2 overall pick, either. There has been 1 corner in history selected before #3 overall, and that was in 1956.

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and especially not one who basically took the season off and has lazy red flags all over the place.
Well, as I've stated countless times, lets give the guy a chance. There's rumor, and there's fact. At this point, we can both admit that we don't know Dareus' character. So let's wait for some dirt to be dug up. I've stated that if the guy is in fact an issue, we should pass on him. If he's not an issue, however, he's not an issue, and that's that. He's just a beast. And we should take him ahead of PP if everything fine and dandy (by the way, comparing Dareus to Haynesworth is no better a comparison than Dareus to Suh, he can stay in a game for 2 plays without needing a breather, for one. Let's keep in mind these character issues are unproven)

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if we go to the 43 (which i still think would be stupid, but whatever), then you can start talking about a bowers or fairley having #2 kind of value.
God forbid we go back to the 4-3, I'd actually prefer PP in that situation just because I don't think they are sure fire enough to be building blocks, although my personal jury is still up in the air on that one.

Anyways, I'm not saying you're wrong in your points (except for your claim that PP already presents the best return, despite never having stepped on an NFL field.)

I'm just saying, I'm not wrong either. It's January 7th. It's too early to write people off for character and laziness issues if the ammo isn't sufficient enough for the media to make something of it, because the media will blow up ANYTHING. Champ Bailey is not proof alone that elite CBs are "better overall impact wise" than elite 3-4 DE's. And even if they were, if you draft an elite DE, each legit front 7 guy you draft from that point on magnifies in importance, IMO.

Here are the top 10 defenses. All but one get by without a super elite CB. Most of them have amazing front 7's. Just Sayin'

1. San Diego Chargers
2. Pittsburgh Steelers
3. New York Jets
4. New Orleans Saints
5. Green Bay Packers
6. Miami Dolphins
7. New York Giants
8. Minnesota Vikings
9. Chicago Bears
10. Baltimore Ravens

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Old 01-07-2011, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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I've been stopping in here to read the debates and opinions on Dareus from you guys. I think he has a decent chance of falling to #9 if you guys pass him up so I'm really intrigued by him. I didn't know as much about those red flags, but I do know he'd be a monster in the 3-4 at the end spot, ESPECIALLY if you can still provide 2 pass rushers at the end spots.


Dallas is in the same spot, probably looking at both Prince & Dareus.
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:00 PM    (permalink
Jimmy
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I've been stopping in here to read the debates and opinions on Dareus from you guys. I think he has a decent chance of falling to #9 if you guys pass him up so I'm really intrigued by him. I didn't know as much about those red flags, but I do know he'd be a monster in the 3-4 at the end spot, ESPECIALLY if you can still provide 2 pass rushers at the end spots.


Dallas is in the same spot, probably looking at both Prince & Dareus.
I'd strongly suggest passing on Prince. If it turns out the red flags are indeed red flags, then he should probably fall past #9 too. Lack of effort is lack of effort, no matter how talented the guy is, if he doesn't give a damn, he's good for nothing. If he is in fact a legitimately clean guy, he won't make it past 5 I don't think, but if he does, you immediately pull the trigger at #9.

The big debate as far as im concerned is whether or not Dareus alone would improve a defense as much as a first rate corner (some people think Prince is that first rate corner, although im clueless as to why) and as I stated before, I think it's hard to that argue a 3-4 DE will make a unit better overall right off the bat, and individually as opposed to a CB. However, (and here's the main reason why I think 3-4 DE is so key) once you start to surround that 3-4 DE with other front 7 pieces, his importance magnifies, and his so called individual importance really starts to come to fruition. He enables the rest of those guys to do their jobs with a MUCH greater amount of ease. Later down the road, if you decide to spend another 1st on another 3-4 DE or DT, or some linebackers, that's when you really see a return on that investment, because the unit as a whole improves exponentially from that 1st to 2nd to 3rd to 4th piece of the front 7. Whereas, you use a pick on a corner, sure. You may get a GREAT return on him, and he may outperform that DE statistically and individually (even though it's really apples and oranges to begin with) but you're not getting that exponential return that I believe exists.

You think that Lions pass defense went from 32nd to 16th because of Chris Houston, Nathan Vasher, Spievey and Delmas? (Delmas is solid, ill give him that) Better yet, you think they went from 29th in the league in sacks to 6th solely because of Suh? Partially, but Avril stepped it up too, and the unit improved exponentially. That's what I'm trying to get at, the more pieces you get in that front 7, the better your individual return is.

You guys best go for Dareus if he's sane and there at #9.

after that, I think you're S.O.L. and can't really afford to draft based on need, because I'm not that sold on quinn, bowers. You'd have to go BPA or trade back and stockpile and go Watt later.

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Old 01-07-2011, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Default Coaching search...

A fair amount of info is coming out now about the potential HC candidates:

Eric Studesville - interview scheduled
Perry Fewell - interview scheduled
Rick Dennison - granted permission to interview
Dick Koetter - granted permission to interview
Ron Rivera - do not yet have permission to interview
Gregg Williams - have to wait until the Saints are done
Mike Mularkey - have to wait until the Falcons are done

All of these have been mentioned by either Elway or Xanders.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:43 PM    (permalink
Jimmy
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A fair amount of info is coming out now about the potential HC candidates:

Eric Studesville - interview scheduled
Perry Fewell - interview scheduled
Rick Dennison - granted permission to interview
Dick Koetter - granted permission to interview
Ron Rivera - do not yet have permission to interview
Gregg Williams - have to wait until the Saints are done
Mike Mularkey - have to wait until the Falcons are done
And of course the guy we need the most doesn't have permission to interview.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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And of course the guy we need the most doesn't have permission to interview.
The Chargers can't actually deny the opportunity to interview for a promotion. However, they will definitely drag their heels on this one.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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The Chargers can't actually deny the opportunity to interview for a promotion. However, they will definitely drag their heels on this one.
Well in that case, that's great. This would be by far the best hire, IMO. There's a reason they should be dragging their heels, he's well respected, well seasoned, & defensive minded. And we'd retain the 3-4.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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PP show in 10 minutes.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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A fair amount of info is coming out now about the potential HC candidates:

Eric Studesville - interview scheduled
Perry Fewell - interview scheduled
Rick Dennison - granted permission to interview
Dick Koetter - granted permission to interview
Ron Rivera - do not yet have permission to interview
Gregg Williams - have to wait until the Saints are done
Mike Mularkey - have to wait until the Falcons are done

All of these have been mentioned by either Elway or Xanders.
A very underwhelming list, in my opinion. Dirk Koetter? Really?
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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peterson just had a disappointing game. he played poorly against alabama earlier in the year, and i'm pretty sure he played just as poorly in last year's bowl game. i'm not sure if he's poorly coached, or maybe his 220+ lb frame is hampering his performance, but the dude has been beat too many times for how talented he is. i really want to see what he weighs in at at the combine.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:42 PM    (permalink
Jimmy
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peterson just had a disappointing game. he played poorly against alabama earlier in the year, and i'm pretty sure he played just as poorly in last year's bowl game. i'm not sure if he's poorly coached, or maybe his 220+ lb frame is hampering his performance, but the dude has been beat too many times for how talented he is. i really want to see what he weighs in at at the combine.
Check out the PP thread tomorrow. I D.V.R.'d the game and will have a full summary of plays he was in on. First quarter stuff is up, too tired to finish the rest of the game right now.

Quick analysis: He got thrown at 3 times in the 1st Q
1. First completion he game he stood no chance as he was 10 yards off at the snap, and kept that 10 yard buffer once Fuller (his man) started running the fly portion of his comeback. Whether that was something his coaches had him do, or it was a misdiagnosed play read by PP himself is something we will never know as casual viewers.
2. He hit Fuller on the sideline as he tried to reel in the pass. Showed nice strength and effort. Not sure if he was the reason the pass was incomplete, Fuller might have dropped it before Peterson got a body on him. Too lazy to check.
3. Peterson jammed Fuller, bailed, and then almost recovered to swat the comeback but got beat again on a pretty routine play. He will get beat on simple plays like this his rookie year, he's not superman. But he did show nice presence and almost turned it into an incompletion.

The one thing that bothers me is that when he tries to make cuts when he's return, it looks like he's on ice or something. He even puts his hand out, as if to stabilize/balance himself. He's not as quick as he is fast, and that does translate into his coverage.
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