Denver Broncos Discussion

[Jimmy]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

I've been stopping in here to read the debates and opinions on Dareus from you guys. I think he has a decent chance of falling to #9 if you guys pass him up so I'm really intrigued by him. I didn't know as much about those red flags, but I do know he'd be a monster in the 3-4 at the end spot, ESPECIALLY if you can still provide 2 pass rushers at the end spots.


Dallas is in the same spot, probably looking at both Prince & Dareus.

I'd strongly suggest passing on Prince. If it turns out the red flags are indeed red flags, then he should probably fall past #9 too. Lack of effort is lack of effort, no matter how talented the guy is, if he doesn't give a damn, he's good for nothing. If he is in fact a legitimately clean guy, he won't make it past 5 I don't think, but if he does, you immediately pull the trigger at #9.

The big debate as far as im concerned is whether or not Dareus alone would improve a defense as much as a first rate corner (some people think Prince is that first rate corner, although im clueless as to why) and as I stated before, I think it's hard to that argue a 3-4 DE will make a unit better overall right off the bat, and individually as opposed to a CB. However, (and here's the main reason why I think 3-4 DE is so key) once you start to surround that 3-4 DE with other front 7 pieces, his importance magnifies, and his so called individual importance really starts to come to fruition. He enables the rest of those guys to do their jobs with a MUCH greater amount of ease. Later down the road, if you decide to spend another 1st on another 3-4 DE or DT, or some linebackers, that's when you really see a return on that investment, because the unit as a whole improves exponentially from that 1st to 2nd to 3rd to 4th piece of the front 7. Whereas, you use a pick on a corner, sure. You may get a GREAT return on him, and he may outperform that DE statistically and individually (even though it's really apples and oranges to begin with) but you're not getting that exponential return that I believe exists.

You think that Lions pass defense went from 32nd to 16th because of Chris Houston, Nathan Vasher, Spievey and Delmas? (Delmas is solid, ill give him that) Better yet, you think they went from 29th in the league in sacks to 6th solely because of Suh? Partially, but Avril stepped it up too, and the unit improved exponentially. That's what I'm trying to get at, the more pieces you get in that front 7, the better your individual return is.

You guys best go for Dareus if he's sane and there at #9.

after that, I think you're S.O.L. and can't really afford to draft based on need, because I'm not that sold on quinn, bowers. You'd have to go BPA or trade back and stockpile and go Watt later.

[Diehard]

A fair amount of info is coming out now about the potential HC candidates:

Eric Studesville - interview scheduled
Perry Fewell - interview scheduled
Rick Dennison - granted permission to interview
Dick Koetter - granted permission to interview
Ron Rivera - do not yet have permission to interview
Gregg Williams - have to wait until the Saints are done
Mike Mularkey - have to wait until the Falcons are done

All of these have been mentioned by either Elway or Xanders.

[Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Diehard

A fair amount of info is coming out now about the potential HC candidates:

Eric Studesville - interview scheduled
Perry Fewell - interview scheduled
Rick Dennison - granted permission to interview
Dick Koetter - granted permission to interview
Ron Rivera - do not yet have permission to interview
Gregg Williams - have to wait until the Saints are done
Mike Mularkey - have to wait until the Falcons are done

And of course the guy we need the most doesn't have permission to interview.

[Diehard]

Originally Posted by Jimmy

And of course the guy we need the most doesn't have permission to interview.

The Chargers can't actually deny the opportunity to interview for a promotion. However, they will definitely drag their heels on this one.

[Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Diehard

The Chargers can't actually deny the opportunity to interview for a promotion. However, they will definitely drag their heels on this one.

Well in that case, that's great. This would be by far the best hire, IMO. There's a reason they should be dragging their heels, he's well respected, well seasoned, & defensive minded. And we'd retain the 3-4.

[Jimmy]

PP show in 10 minutes.

[jCut]

Originally Posted by Diehard

A fair amount of info is coming out now about the potential HC candidates:

Eric Studesville - interview scheduled
Perry Fewell - interview scheduled
Rick Dennison - granted permission to interview
Dick Koetter - granted permission to interview
Ron Rivera - do not yet have permission to interview
Gregg Williams - have to wait until the Saints are done
Mike Mularkey - have to wait until the Falcons are done

All of these have been mentioned by either Elway or Xanders.

A very underwhelming list, in my opinion. Dirk Koetter? Really?

[Cunningham]

peterson just had a disappointing game. he played poorly against alabama earlier in the year, and i'm pretty sure he played just as poorly in last year's bowl game. i'm not sure if he's poorly coached, or maybe his 220+ lb frame is hampering his performance, but the dude has been beat too many times for how talented he is. i really want to see what he weighs in at at the combine.

[Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Cunningham

peterson just had a disappointing game. he played poorly against alabama earlier in the year, and i'm pretty sure he played just as poorly in last year's bowl game. i'm not sure if he's poorly coached, or maybe his 220+ lb frame is hampering his performance, but the dude has been beat too many times for how talented he is. i really want to see what he weighs in at at the combine.

Check out the PP thread tomorrow. I D.V.R.'d the game and will have a full summary of plays he was in on. First quarter stuff is up, too tired to finish the rest of the game right now.

Quick analysis: He got thrown at 3 times in the 1st Q
1. First completion he game he stood no chance as he was 10 yards off at the snap, and kept that 10 yard buffer once Fuller (his man) started running the fly portion of his comeback. Whether that was something his coaches had him do, or it was a misdiagnosed play read by PP himself is something we will never know as casual viewers.
2. He hit Fuller on the sideline as he tried to reel in the pass. Showed nice strength and effort. Not sure if he was the reason the pass was incomplete, Fuller might have dropped it before Peterson got a body on him. Too lazy to check.
3. Peterson jammed Fuller, bailed, and then almost recovered to swat the comeback but got beat again on a pretty routine play. He will get beat on simple plays like this his rookie year, he's not superman. But he did show nice presence and almost turned it into an incompletion.

The one thing that bothers me is that when he tries to make cuts when he's return, it looks like he's on ice or something. He even puts his hand out, as if to stabilize/balance himself. He's not as quick as he is fast, and that does translate into his coverage.

[Cunningham]

Originally Posted by Jimmy

The one thing that bothers me is that when he tries to make cuts when he's return, it looks like he's on ice or something. He even puts his hand out, as if to stabilize/balance himself. He's not as quick as he is fast, and that does translate into his coverage.

yea, it was pretty obvious tonight on one of his first half returns and i've noticed that it's an issue for him on hook routes and such. i still really like him as a prospect, and you have to remember that the dude is only twenty years old, he has a lot of time yet to become a polished football player.

[Diehard]

Originally Posted by jCut

A very underwhelming list, in my opinion. Dirk Koetter? Really?

JAX has quietly put up solid offensive production over the time Koetter has been there. When you consider the very modest talent they've had at QB and WR, being somewhere in the top 10-15 in overall production and top 5 in 3rd down conversions is a pretty decent accomplishment.

Anyway, here's a more flashy addition:

The Broncos’ head coaching candidate list now has a profile name: John Fox.

The team is seeking permission to interview the Carolina Panthers’ head coach, according to an NFL source.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/...os-radar/6466/

[Chris]

They have not been anywhere near the top fifteen or ten in overall production in Koetter's time as OC in Jacksonville outside his first year there when they were sixth in points and seventh in yards respectively.

18, 24 and 24 the past three years in points.

15, 18 and 20 in yards the past three years.

Like I said, completely underwhelming outside his first year there. Do you honestly believe an offensive coordinator who cannot even muster up average offenses deserves a shot at our job?

I think not.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by jCut

Broncos are set to interview two head coaching candidates, Greg Williams and Perry Fewell, that use the 43 system. A telling sign of things to come?

Elway had said in his presser that he would like to stick with the 3-4 given the pieces we have in store there already. Seems funny, because I think we have piss on defense as far as talent goes, but over the past few years there have been quite a few moves in that area. I'm not sure switching schemes again is something that the Broncos are interested in doing, if -- and only if they feel that a change to a 4-3 would bring more continuity down the road.

It will be interesting to see. Player evaluations from the position coaches will be a big factor in this, regardless if those guys are not retained.

Denver has perhaps one "elite" player on defense, Bailey -- who might not even be here next year. After that, you have one good player in DJ Williams (and yes, I consider DJ good -- I feel horrible on him having to switch spots multiple times and have a different DC almost every year) and after that there isn't much.

Dawkins play clearly slipped this year and the only way I see us picking up his option is for leadership capabilities and to help the younger players (and potential draft pick) at the selection groom in for the future. The Denver Post and news outlets like to sensationalize things regarding Dawkins saying, "They lost all the games he has not played in." -- but the more important aspect of it all is how well does he play in the games he is in? This year, clearly not well at all.

Hill was average all season long, but we probably have to keep him because Bruton is not a starter and McBath can never stay healthy.

Goodman is extremely inconsistent and not dependable. I think Perrish Cox is likely to be a starter for this team next year, especially if Bailey goes -- that is, if he isn't in jail. I'm encourage with Thompson in a furthered nickel role and Vaughn being delegated duties in dime packages. If Bailey goes, this could all change. Corner is highly ambiguous for us.

Everybody knows the defensive line is an absolute joke. Kevin Vickerson was our best performer this year and he was a rotational player. Williams and Bannan were underwhelming, but Bannan is just a solid pro. Williams is clearly past his prime. Every position on that line needs upgrading, whether it is NT or the 5T.

Linebacker is also iffy. As I said, we have Williams and that is about it. I have hopes for Ayers, who was playing pretty well before his injury. Cross our fingers he can put it together next year. Who knows how well Dumervil will recover from his injury? Regardless if it is good, we need another quality pass-rusher. Mario Haggan did surprisingly well this year, but isn't a long-term answer to any position. He is versatile though.

Jason Hunter, whatever. He can be upgraded. Woodyard only deserves a roster spot because of ST play. Mays can be a nice two-down thumper for us (GO BISON!) -- but we could upgrade over him too.

In short, our defense is poop. To me, it really doesn't matter what scheme we go to because we have crap there regardless and it will take multiple drafts to fix. It will be absolutely depressing if Champ doesn't stay here.

I agree that DL needs to be the forefront priority, but if Bailey goes -- a guy like Peterson has to be considered. I cannot advocate Fairley at #2 when he isn't a good fit for a 5T in our defense. If we switched, perhaps. I like Dareus a lot, and I would not be against him at #2 if we "had to" because he has proven effective at the 5T, even while hurt this year.

In all honesty, I would prefer a trade down to accumulate more picks. It would be in our best interest.

Despite Peterson's showing tonight in the bowl game, he is still a tremendous prospect, but his talents would almost be useless if we can't get a line to help him. We would still have three other early picks to give him that help though.

Who knows.

[Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Chris

It will be absolutely depressing if Champ doesn't stay here.

At what price do you keep him around though? He'll be 33 next year, and he's gonna demand at least 4 years, and he's going to want to stay payed as a top 5 corner. That's a huge investment to make in a player.

It's almost like were in a famine, and the only grocery store for miles is charging $100 for a loaf of bread that is just starting to go stale. Shouldn't we just try to grow our own food?

[Jimmy]

Well this... sucks...
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17028788

[njx9]

meh. it was bound to happen sooner or later. dude couldn't ever stay on the field.

[Jimmy]

Originally Posted by njx9

meh. it was bound to happen sooner or later. dude couldn't ever stay on the field.

So... do we kick out beadles and draft a bunch of interior linemen? Or do we draft an interior lineman and a tackle? Or do we address this in free agency?

[Diehard]

Originally Posted by Chris

Like I said, completely underwhelming outside his first year there. Do you honestly believe an offensive coordinator who cannot even muster up average offenses deserves a shot at our job?

I think not.

I'm not saying he should be the hire, but IMO he's worth interviewing. He's been known as a very strong X's and O's guy since his college days. He's not stuck on a particular scheme (e.g. ASU aired it out), which is somewhat appealing considering he'd be coming in to a situation where the need on the defensive side of things is going to make it very difficult to justify bringing in a lot of new guys on offense.

The downside is that I think he'd need to be willing to bring in a strong, veteran DC and delegate considerable authority to him. If his ego could handle that, it might work.

[Chris]

(A) Price doesn't really matter for me. It is Champ Bailey. I have even read rumors (ESPN from another forum) that he would be interested in moving to safety to prolong his career. I don't worry about salary like a lot of people do. The money is there to sign him and others. There are ways to construct a contract that would alleviate any hit we would have to take if he ended up not doing well.

(B) Sucks to see Harris go, but his play was off and on and he has had injury problems in his four years with the Broncos. I would continue to grow Beadles at LG and draft a RT. Or, we could draft a player capable of playing either spot, giving us versatility. There are a lot of second to third round starting tackles in this draft, I think we would have our choice of any of them with our three picks after #2. I'll wait until our coaches are hired and see if we switch back to the ZBS (a guarantee if Dennison is or choice) before I come up with any players in mind.

(C) Pass on Koetter at all costs.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Chris

(A) Price doesn't really matter for me. It is Champ Bailey. I have even read rumors (ESPN from another forum) that he would be interested in moving to safety to prolong his career. I don't worry about salary like a lot of people do. The money is there to sign him and others. There are ways to construct a contract that would alleviate any hit we would have to take if he ended up not doing well.

if that's true (that he'd be ok with playing S), then i fully agree. give him whatever contract he wants. i think, like rod woodson late in his career, bailey could be a very good FS for several more years.

[Jimmy]

Full PP vs. Jeff Fuller analysis is finally up in the PP thread. Really not a whole lot you can take from it, seeing that Fuller ran 1 route on him the whole game.

[Timbathia]

Originally Posted by Chris

(B) Sucks to see Harris go, but his play was off and on and he has had injury problems in his four years with the Broncos. I would continue to grow Beadles at LG and draft a RT. Or, we could draft a player capable of playing either spot, giving us versatility. There are a lot of second to third round starting tackles in this draft, I think we would have our choice of any of them with our three picks after #2. I'll wait until our coaches are hired and see if we switch back to the ZBS (a guarantee if Dennison is or choice) before I come up with any players in mind.

The annoying thing though is that we will have to blow a pick in the first three rounds on a tackle now, unless we get one in FA. We have so many holes that we need this draft to fill, that losing a reasonable starter to FA just makes the rebuilding process all that much harder.

[Diehard]

It is annoying, but honestly, Harris' constant injury problems were pretty annoying as well.

I'd rather have someone who can play a full season so we can finally get the OL to gel.

I think Doug Free is someone to look at in FA if we go back to a ZBS. Dallas was a wierd fit for him in the first place.

[Chris]

Prior to Harris departure, I had offensive line pegged as one of our selections in our top four because we lack serious quality depth there and I believe that they need a serious challenge based on their play this year. Eric Olsen, whom could be a good reserve, was inactive every game this year, matching the Trevor Pryce rookie record. Inconsistency was all over the line.

I like the Doug Free option at tackle in FA. I also like getting a TE in FA as well. Those should be relatively cheap options, since they aren't top performers. Bo Scaife (from Denver) might be a logical pick-up in that regard if we miss out on a high profile name. I'm not really aware of the other names on the OL who could press for starting time.

Right now, with four selections this is how I see it shaking out:

OL, DL (2) and whatever quality player is there. I think it is safe to say we do not need another receiver -- that position seems to be one of talent and strength for us. LB/S I'm all for, that would probably be the bigger priority over anything else since we need talent on defense. Even a dynamic running back if that is at all possible. Just depends on what we do in free agency. However, I like Elway stating he wants to build through the draft.

I'm confident we will be able to add another early round selection to our mix and that would help. At any case, like I said earlier, this rebuild for the team is going to take more than one off-season. Hopefully free agency happens on time and we can get one or two players that fit needs that can help us be more focused in our draft needs.

If I'm correct, we have 1, 2A, 2B, 3 and sixth rounders from New England and Detroit. (Maroney and Smith trades)

Our original six is with Cleveland for Quinn. Our seventh got flipped to Detroit and we got their sixth and Gronkowski. Our fourth is to New England and we got their sixth. No fifth rounder because that goes to Tampa Bay to acquire the two sevenths we spent on Thompson and Kirlew.

Simply not enough at this point in time. I hope we trade down from #2.

[DBNYDP]

Meh, I think Harris has been playing a lot better, I would try to make some attempt to keep him.
Beadles need to stay on the inside, he isn't very good on the outside, and isn't fast enough to be the blindside tackle.
I think we should resign Bailey, I mean he is a talented guy and is absolutely dynamite while playing zone. So as a FS he would be pretty good I think.
Also I don't think he is done at corner yet so we can still use him there for a bit.