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Old 06-15-2011, 12:04 PM    (permalink
Bob Sanders Dreadlock
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...b-competition/

The money quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brady Quinn
I want to be No. 1, Quinn told Mike Klis of the Denver Post after joining Broncos player-only practices for the first time Tuesday. I feel they [Orton and Tebow] both had a chance last year and I didnt get an opportunity. Id love to get an opportunity to help us win games and get this team to the playoffs and see what happens from there.
Awww how cute he wants his turn. Waiting anxiously for njx9's response.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:05 PM    (permalink
ArkyRamsFan
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Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
As much as I like to think we're an above average receiving corps, I think school grade inflation has really ****ed up what everyone's opinion of a true C is.

It's funny, because I had them at a B- first, but then realized I needed to stay true to my scale. If I was a teacher, I'd be that old guy that pisses everyone off because he believes in the bell-curve. I like to have as many F's as A's. Mind you I can't stand, can't stand, can't stand how, when 90% of draft experts do their post draft ratings, 80-90% of the grades are C's and up. Really Fox News? Just 1 team had a below average draft? 6 teams had average drafts? 25 teams had above average to great drafts? There's no point in a grading system if the scale on which it is based is flawed.
Rams fan here.

This is a terrific point. I've been wondering about the so-called grading scale myself. Seems like the "No Child Left Behind" philosophy has infested the NFL Draft for whatever reason.

If all of these teams were really drafting as well as their grades assume there would not be anywhere near the levels of suck that we see in the league every year.

Or am I missing something? Yeah, certainly Free Agency plays a role as does injuries, but still the general rule is that the teams that draft well (and apparently this has little to do with their grades) do well on the field.

At any rate a compelling post to say the least, Jimmy.
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Old 06-15-2011, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Awww how cute he wants his turn.
As I'm sure njx9 will hit on, Brady Quinn effing blows and is one of the most pathetic excuses for a 2nd string quarterback in the NFL. So he is a 3rd stringer.

Having that said, at least he has confidence in himself. He won't win the starting job, but I hope the mindset he is taking spreads to the rest of the team, because it can only be a good thing.

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Old 06-15-2011, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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I'm not disagreeing at all but why's Quinn so bad? I've never really had a chance to watch him in the NFL.
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Brady Quinn should be a #2 QB and get a fair chance to compete for a starting job. He is better than Derek Anderson, Jimmy Clausen, Trent Edwards...
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Old 06-15-2011, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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I watched Brady Quinn a lot. From college games to his 1st start against the Broncos to his preseason games in 2010. He's been in the NFL for 3 seasons and he still did not get a full season as the starter. He should have been the guy for the Browns in 2009, but Mangini decided (or "undecided") to make a soup with Quinn and Anderson. Quinn was not playing well, but Anderson was even worse, just check the stats.

Quinn has 10 TDs in 12 starts, which is acceptable for a young QB. And he has more TDs than interceptions. His completion % must improve. But most of all, he needs to play with more confidence and use his arm. Stop the dink and dunk and create more YPA. But it's hard to relax and sling the ball when you are not the guy and someone might take your job anytime.

Brandon Lloyd gave a nice example for the Broncos' QB controversy:

"I don't like it, and I can say that," said Brandon Lloyd, the Broncos' No. 1 receiver. "I don't like the uncertainty because it puts the quarterback on eggshells and makes them not want to throw interceptions in practice. So they don't take chances, and they don't throw balls that they should be throwing for fear that they're going to get a negative check on their play."

That's what happened in Cleveland. Make a mistake and you're out. The other guy makes a mistake, you're in again. That's stupid. And the QB loses confidence in the process. That's what Quinn needs to regain, his confidence on the field to make all the throws. He needs a lot of work, but I don't think he is complete trash, not at all.
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Old 06-15-2011, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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*double post* delete please

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Old 06-15-2011, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
I watched Brady Quinn a lot. From college games to his 1st start...

Quinn has 10 TDs in 12 starts, which is acceptable for a young QB. But it's hard to relax and sling the ball when you are not the guy and someone might take your job anytime.
Aside from that 1 stat with an extremely small sample size, Quinn has been atrocious w/ denver in the pre-season and that is undeniable.

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Old 06-17-2011, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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As much as I like to think we're an above average receiving corps, I think school grade inflation has really ****ed up what everyone's opinion of a true C is.
A "true" C? Marks should map to how well students score against consistent standards, instead of being the product of some artificially imposed comparative distribution. If the class is weak across the board, then there's no reason for anyone to get an A. Conversely, if all students demonstrate competency in the core aspects of the curriculum, none of them should get F.

Grades aren't rankings - they are two separate pieces of information that tell you different things. We talk this way all the time on the site: "so-and-so is the best WR prospect, but it's a weak pool" - i.e. his grade isn't great but he's at the top of the pile.

Anyway, I need to reel in this tangent (which is strongly related to my management role in the department of education) and get on to the real business:

Quote:
As for rating our WR's a B, there are at least 12, if not 16-20 recieving corps with better receivers than our Broncos. Teams that undeniably have a better WR corps (no order)
My response here would be you have some teams listed who have a nice top end of 2-3 name guys at receivers, but what does their depth look like? That's the thing that I find encouraging about our WR corps - we've got talent 6-7 deep.

In terms of receiver, I don't like any of the teams you had in that Redskins-Titans cluster except the Patriots (and that's partially influenced by their excellent TE play) and I'm not sold on the 1-12 being "undeniable" either. I'd put the following clearly ahead of the Broncos:

Saints
Steelers
Giants
Jets
Cowboys
Colts
Packers
Eagles

Ravens are a question mark. They win the "big name" prize but that didn't translate onto the field all that well. The Falcons are getting played up because of Julius Jones, but receiver is one of the hardest transitions in the NFL and I think the talk about him making a big impact is very premature. I don't like the Vikings' stable - Rice is solid, Berrian is inconsistent and Harvin is a nice weapon, but not necessarily a pure WR.
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Old 06-18-2011, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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A "true" C? Marks should map to how well students score against consistent standards, instead of being the product of some artificially imposed comparative distribution.
I'm surprised with your stance on current grade inflation. Just because a standard is consistent (i.e. the nfl draft grading standard/travesty) doesn't mean it makes sense. Today's grade standards are just as artificial (faux, made by humans) as a bell curve scale is. Poor choice of words, but I'll run with it. Artificial or not, it makes a lot more sense in my opinion than the comapritive distribution you support, where students all are graded as average or above. You know just as well as I know that colleges admisisons had to adapt a huge mathematical formula to make sense of the freakin nightmare that is today's inflation. Time to make things right.

According to your preferred scale, draft classes are never weak across the board based on experts final grades, even during years where there is a clear lack of depth.

If you had been paying attention to the NFL Draft rankings over the years, you would know that there has NEVER been a weak class according to today's standards.

Each and every year, no matter WHAT, teams get unreasonably high grades across the board before their players even take the field. That is undeniable, no matter how weak or strong things are. Tell me then, why aren't 80% of the teams contending for the playoffs? Most of your stuff is opinion that I can't refute, but that is completely refutable.

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If all students demonstrate competency in the core aspects of the curriculum, none of them should get Fs.
They should get f's if they are in the bottom 20% of their class! But oh no, because of today's inflation, the stigma of an F would hurt their feelings, right? Or it would look bad! If high school adopted that system, a D wouldn't be a D anymore! It would be a lot more reflective of the way things are, though. My point: School is a competition, just like the draft, and grades should show it.

Also, to counter a point I'm sure you will make, in the most prestigious schools where 90% of the kids are bright, 20% should still get f's. They can separate themselves with standardized testing. Colleges know what the best high schools are anyway from experience.

If we switched to a bell curve, the value of an A would skyrocket, and students who received D's would still get into "college," or pass judgement regardless. A "D" wouldn't be the travesty it is today considering the amount of kids who would get them.

Unlike school, the draft is not a matter of competency, but how well you did given what you could have done with players on the board with team needs at stake. It is not fair to judge a class to be incompetent before the players have taken the field, just like it is not fair to etch them in stone as hall of famers.

The scale is a matter of how good the team's draft picks were overall, compared to the rest of the league.

There is no way to tell how anyone will pan out before a player takes the field, so why would I grade them based on "competency" that is almost entirely based on prejudgement?

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Grades aren't rankings - they are two separate pieces of information that tell you different things.
Please. Draft grades aren't rankings? School grades arent? Tell that to college admissions counselors. Tell that to teams who place grades on every player on their board. Tell that to the experts who rank the best class to the worst based on a letter grade.

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That's the thing that I find encouraging about our WR corps - we've got talent 6-7 deep.
We will be lucky if 3 of them pan out, and you know that. Neither of us know the other teams rosters as well as our own starting 5, but I can promise you almost every team on that list has a talent similar to Matt Willis or Britt Davis buried deep on their roster. The only reason you can make that claim is because you know nothing about those players, just like Vikings fans have no clue who the hell Matt Willis is.

I'm absolutely shocked you think one year wonder Brandon Lloyd, 30 year old Jabar Gaffney, a 1st rounder who may not play next year and showed very little, and a slot receiver who hasn't been himself since his rookie year are better than the Falcons, Vikings corps overall.

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The Falcons are getting played up because of Julius Jones, but receiver is one of the hardest transitions in the NFL and I think the talk about him making a big impact is very premature.
Guess what? We're playing Denver up because of Decker and Royal. Decker has proven himself about | | This much more than Jones. Royal might as well start over. If you wouldn't take Roddy white and Julio Jones over a 30 year old Brandon Lloyd, an unproven Eric Decker, and the rest of our corps... I'm personally shocked.

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Originally Posted by Diehard View Post
I don't like the Vikings' stable - Rice is solid, Berrian is inconsistent and Harvin is a nice weapon, but not necessarily a pure WR.
Rice and Harvin without a doubt have better futures than any of our current players, including Decker. Claiming that Decker will be better will be better than any either of those guys would simply prove you're a complete homer. While he could certainly pan out better than both, there is no logical reason to believe he will be better right now.

Only time will tell, but you really underestimate the talent of those two teams especially. My opinion is that our wr talents combined with our transition to a run oriented offense will make you eat your words. This team does not have a top 10 corps in the NFL, and I promise you if a poll was done on this website, we'd be lucky to fall in the top 12-14 as it stands.

A C by my standards, perhaps a B by yours. At least my rankings are reflective of a scale, and not a fallacy caused by whiny students.

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Old 06-18-2011, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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With the lockout lingering, Jimmy and Diehard resort to debating over the philosophy of grade inflation.

Bring back football!!
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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With the lockout lingering, Jimmy and Diehard resort to debating over the philosophy of grade inflation.

Bring back football!!
Yes, we've sunk to new lows. Hopefully we'll soon have a frenzy of FA activity to ***** and moan about instead.
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Old 06-26-2011, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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Yes, we've sunk to new lows. Hopefully we'll soon have a frenzy of FA activity to ***** and moan about instead.
With our team the way it is are we more likely to moan about a frenzy of FA activity, or a lack of it?
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Who should Denver target at DT? Cofield, Mebane, Jenkins, Bunkley?

Mebane seems like a nice fit.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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Haha yeah. That would be nice.

Take a chance on Fat Albert maybe?..
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Old 07-15-2011, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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Apparently, one of the things on the table at today's meetings is this:

A proposed deal by owners would allow NFL teams to match any highest-offer on a player of theirs during FA, and subsequently retain that player.

The good news there is you would see quite a few more players stay with a team their entire career. Can't wait to see some more team loyalty, even if it is forced. The bad news is that we may not be able to sign DeAngelo Williams without anteing up wayyyy too much $$$ for him.

Then again, if we aren't going to use all of our cap money, I say we splurge.
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Old 07-15-2011, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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i don't see the panthers trying to hold onto deangelo.
You may be right, and your point is strengthened by the fact that owners will not put first right of refusal clauses on 2011 free agents anymore per ESPN
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Old 07-19-2011, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jCut View Post
Who should Denver target at DT? Cofield, Mebane, Jenkins, Bunkley?

Mebane seems like a nice fit.
I'd certainly like to see him on board, but Fox seems to prefer tall guys at the DT spot.

Along with the usual suspects (e.g. Mebane, Cofield), Marcus Spears and Robaire Smith are two guys coming off injury who might be possible fits despite having played in 3-4 schemes last year.

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i don't see the panthers trying to hold onto deangelo.
I think they'll make him a decent offer, but as soon as there is any serious competition from another team they'll bow out.

Denver will go hard after a RB in FA. Is Williams the guy? It would make a certain amount of sense, but I've been bitten by making assumptions based on coach-player connections in the past. We shall see soon enough.
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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I'm not so sure now. We are 8 (or so) million dollars over the cap. We need to make some major adjustments before any major signing is possible.
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Old 07-26-2011, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jCut View Post
I'm not so sure now. We are 8 (or so) million dollars over the cap. We need to make some major adjustments before any major signing is possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Legwold & The Denver Post
The Broncos have 72 players on their roster and nearly $129 million in salary commitments. That's after releasing tight end Daniel Graham and defensive linemen Justin Bannan and Jamal Williams.
That number is closer to 126 million now, as Denver has said it is going to release Buck.

So the squad is looking at a 6 million dollar deficit.
Some personal notes:

If Denver trades Orton, the team goes into the green. Orton is due to make 8.8 million this year.

Unfortunately, the P. Cox situation may have cost Denver close to 3 million. Andre Goodman is due to make 2.8 Mil, but since Denver is now going to have to dump Cox (those are some serious allegations) they need to keep somebody with experience around. Only way Goodman is gone IMO is if Syd'Quan Thompson steps his game up to a whole new level. I could be wrong, though.

Dawkins will need to take a paycut. He's making 6 mil this year.

Dumping Goodman, Orton and Buck, and asking Dawk to take a 3 million dollar cut would put the team at 114.4 million. Still not enough to splurge, especially since Von and the rookies haven't signed.
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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WR Jabar Gaffney traded to Washington for DL Jeremy Jarmon

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13153/jeremy-jarmon

Lost WR depth, but also gained 2 mil in cap space for DL rotation. I liked Gaffney a lot so not sure how I feel about this one.
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DeAngelo Williams re-signed with Carolina, Five years 43 million, 21 mill guaranteed. For that kinda money glad we didn't sign him.
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Dolphins and Broncos engaged in trade talks that would send Kyle Orton to Miami. Both teams would like to make it happen.
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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edit: i was beat to it, but nonetheless, here ya go:

So Denver just shipped WR Jabar Gaffney for '09 Supplimental pick Jeremy Jarmon (Redskins)

It's an interesting move that will save us about 1.5 million not figuring in bonuses. What it does is get rid of a guy that would take balls away from a rising Decker.

Talking about this a few weeks ago, one of our biggest questions was "where will Jabar fit in?"

Question answered. Entering his 3rd year, Jarmon is only 23.

I won't lie and say I know this or that about him. I will take some quotes from a redskin board, so we get some perspective from people who have seen him play:

"It did not appear Jarmon was going to have a legit shot to make the team, so under those circumstances, I like the deal. Jabar Gaffney isn't exactly a return, though. We're collecting receivers the way Jon Gruden collects quarterbacks."

"Was Gaffney in Denver with Shanahan? Don't know what to make of this as I really liked Jarmon, and thought he had good potential.

How can you not have brought in at least one center? I just don't get it."

"Jarmon has done everything asked of him-lose weight to play LB, gain weight to play on the line, lose weight again, learn this position, learn that position, all while rehabbing from a major injury...only to be sent packing just weeks away from the start of the season. And if he had kids in school, the start of the school year.
I wish Jarmon well"
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
meh. gaffney couldn't have been a more average receiver. if jarmon's just a warm body on the d-line, i think the team was improved. sucks to lose out on williams. can't wait for a mcgahee/moreno backfield. if that doesn't strike fear into high school d-lines everywhere, i don't know what will.

bleh. whatever. this team still isn't going anywhere for another year or two. as boring as it is, i guess i'm totally cool with not blowing a bunch of money in FA this year, though it'd be nice to do something with orton before camp starts.
Kyle Orton to Miami for Randy Starks and Philip Merling is the rumor out there now.

We are also heavily pursuing Cullen Jenkins as well is another rumor.
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I would be pretty happy with Jenkins, not sure how I like the Orton rumors. The DL depth would be nice I guess. And Starks would be a clear upgrade to anything we've seen in the middle in the last 5 years.

So I hope they both happen.
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
meh. gaffney couldn't have been a more average receiver. if jarmon's just a warm body on the d-line, i think the team was improved. sucks to lose out on williams. can't wait for a mcgahee/moreno backfield. if that doesn't strike fear into high school d-lines everywhere, i don't know what will.

bleh. whatever. this team still isn't going anywhere for another year or two. as boring as it is, i guess i'm totally cool with not blowing a bunch of money in FA this year, though it'd be nice to do something with orton before camp starts.
At least it sounds like Moreno has heard your assessment of him njx, because apparently he has lost 15 pounds in the offseason and has been working out like a fiend. He must realise that if he cant adjust to this new offense he may never make it in the NFL.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jCut View Post
Who should Denver target at DT? Cofield, Mebane, Jenkins, Bunkley?

Mebane seems like a nice fit.
Mebane talks are allegedly heating up. Although I think Cofield was overpaid, with the way our DT spot is looking... **** it. He's going to cost 32-40 million, depending on if it's a 5-6 year contract. I don't care, though.

Last edited by Jimmy : 07-27-2011 at 05:47 PM.
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