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Old 11-19-2011, 02:48 AM    (permalink
Diehard
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Originally Posted by Timbathia View Post
From a drafting strategy i think you almost need to leave the offense alone. While Tebow is starter, the effectiveness of the offense will pretty much hinge on his development. I would hate the idea of drafting to "help" him in this offense, as their is no guarantee of how long it will last.
While I agree we shouldn't go too overboard on personnel decisions that are Tebow-specific, there are some more general offensive fits to consider. For example, our OL has been zone blocking (whether option or not) pretty well - that's something that should factor into the team's RB evaluations. Similarly, it's pretty clear the team wants to run, so skill position guys who are willing and able blockers become more valuable.
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Old 11-19-2011, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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I think we also need to discuss the re-emergence of this guy:



In the last 3 weeks, Elvis has 3.5 sacks and a hefty number of QB pressures.

Von takes the cake for D-MVP, but I think he'd see more double teams if not for Elvis on the other side.

Just wanted to give some props to a guy who's really stepped it up the last 3 weeks.
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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Well, we just released Kyle Orton and basically handed him to Kansas City or Chicago. Two teams we had much greater shots at beating when they were quarterbackless.
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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Are we just being good guys and giving Orton (who has done nothing wrong in all of this) a chance to get a starting job (or am I missing something)? I like Orton and glad if he gets a chance somewhere else, however, this could come back and bite us depending on where he lands.
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Timbathia View Post
Are we just being good guys and giving Orton (who has done nothing wrong in all of this) a chance to get a starting job (or am I missing something)? I like Orton and glad if he gets a chance somewhere else, however, this could come back and bite us depending on where he lands.
The ONLY bright side to releasing him now as opposed to later is that another team is much more likely to claim him now, and hence pick up his remaining $2.6 Million salary. That probably doesn't happen in week 15-17.
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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When you really look at it, though.. even though this improves Kyle's life tenfold... We really kinda insulted the **** outta him by doing this now. Essentially telling him we aren't worried about him coming back and beating us down the road and all...

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Old 11-22-2011, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Timbathia View Post
Are we just being good guys and giving Orton (who has done nothing wrong in all of this) a chance to get a starting job (or am I missing something)? I like Orton and glad if he gets a chance somewhere else, however, this could come back and bite us depending on where he lands.
I'm not the slighest bit worried about Orton.

We were 1-4 with him and 4-1 with a QB who supposedly "can't pass a football accurately."
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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If someone picks him up off waivers, we save $2.5 million. Combined with the ugly string of injuries to QB's and I suspect the team felt this was a good business opportunity.
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Well, we just released Kyle Orton and basically handed him to Kansas City or Chicago. Two teams we had much greater shots at beating when they were quarterbackless.
He may want to go to Chicago, but if he does the combination of poor OL and lack of mobility is going to be ugly.

KC is just throwing away money if they pick him up.
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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The Chiefs have no shot at winning any more games, regardless of if we pick up Orton or not.

I didn't think I could be any more disgusted by the Chiefs, but they'd reach an all time new low if they claimed Orton. God I hate this team and the sick part of it is that I'll be a fan of theirs until the day that I die.

Stupid football. Change my username to njx2.
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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The Pro Football Hall of Fame announced on Tuesday its semifinalists for induction into the 2012 class. Two former Denver Broncos reached the semifinal round for the first time in their eligibility periods: safety Steve Atwater and linebacker Karl Mecklenburg.
Atwater and Mecklenburg's first time on the semi-finalist list! Alright! (and Terrell Davis!)
Quote:
The complete list of 26 modern-era semifinalists is as follows:

Steve Atwater, S – 1989-1998 Denver Broncos, 1999 New York Jets

Jerome Bettis, RB – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers

Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers

Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings

Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos

Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner – 1979-2000 San Francisco 49ers

Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers

Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers

Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys

Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

Curtis Martin, RB – 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets

Clay Matthews, LB – 1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-96 Atlanta Falcons

Karl Mecklenburg, LB – 1983-1994 Denver Broncos

Bill Parcells, Coach – 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets, 2003-06 Dallas Cowboys

Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

Willie Roaf, T – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs

Donnie Shell, S – 1974-1987 Pittsburgh Steelers

Will Shields, G – 1993-2006 Kansas City Chiefs

Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League

Steve Tasker, ST/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills

Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams

Ron Wolf, Contributor – 1963-1974, 1978-1990 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, 1975-77 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 1990 New York Jets, 1991-2001 Green Bay Packers

George Young, Contributor – 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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also, who shalt take the "C" that Kyle Orton has left vacated? I think we all know who it is going to be, but who would it be if "player-x" was out of the picture? (it has to be an offensive captain)

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Old 11-23-2011, 01:16 AM    (permalink
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also, who shalt take the "C" that Kyle Orton has left vacated? I think we all know who it is going to be, but who would it be if "player-x" was out of the picture? (it has to be an offensive captain)
Of course it will be Tebow, as the starting QB has an inside track on a "C".

If it couldn't be Tebow, my vote would be for McGahee.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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wait, "supposedly"? he *can't* pass a football accurately.
We might be disagreeing over semantics.

Yes, Tim Tebow is wildly inconsistent at the moment, but could he develop his accuracy in the coming years? I believe so. He has the potential, even though he's not there yet.
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=200024

McGahee gets the C.
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Old 11-27-2011, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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What are your thoughts on this heading into the draft?

"Lamar Miller RB Miami: Elway will be upset that they played their way out of a top QB however the Tebow era continues. Meanwhile he will go BPA to try and get himself some top talent on the team with which to build around."-Sweater-vest mafia
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Old 11-27-2011, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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Unreal. (10)
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Old 11-27-2011, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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What are your thoughts on this heading into the draft?

"Lamar Miller RB Miami: Elway will be upset that they played their way out of a top QB however the Tebow era continues. Meanwhile he will go BPA to try and get himself some top talent on the team with which to build around."-Sweater-vest mafia

I do not like the Clinton Portis comparisons Miller is getting. Both went to Miami, have similar builds, and are fast. After that, the comparisons end. Portis never relied that much on his speed. He was 10 times the pass blocker coming out of college.

Prospect wise, he is more of a Tatum Bell. Bell could outrace Portis, but he was a terrible blocker.
Miller and Bell share these traits:
They hit wide open holes and then, more often than not, go down on first contact against strong competition. Against weaker teams, Miller will break poor arm tackles and then go down.

He, like Bell, doesn't create much for himself. He will have a few highlight reel cutbacks here and there, but doesn't have "it" as a runner. He doesn't have a sixth sense of where to go next.

One thing I am not sold on is that Miller is this great blend of power and speed. Despite his weight, the dude just simply isn't a power back. He plays like he is 10 pounds lighter than he really is. (Like Tatum Bell) Doesn't use his 212 pounds as much as he should.

I know there are people who have a huge affinity for guys who can run 4.35's. And I know there's this affinity for guys like that who carry a bit of weight. That's really easy to get caught up in. When you look at the film, he isn't the same back as Chris Polk.

Also, Miller doesn't fit our current system as much as Chris Polk. He has little to no experience with the read option, and hey, he can't catch out of the backfield like Polk can. He's not going to be as good as Polk. Or Richardson. Or Cyrus Gray, if you want a speed guy. Or Robert Turbin. Or Vick Ballard.

Give me any of those guys any day over Lamar Miller. All will have better careers in the NFL.

Chris Polk should be our guy if he declares and is available round 2. Watch his highlights starting at 3:00. They are not the product of an o-line, they are self made.



I'll admit, Trent Richardson is a hell of a back who packs more of a punch. This guy, however, has a lot of lateral quickness (in the mold of a Matt Forte), and can make defenders miss as they hone in on him.

Richardson will likely be gone by the time we pick, keep in mind that is why I revert to the next guy.

Polk is very good in space. He almost always makes the right decison, and has great balance, unlike another player we recently drafted (who was supposedly great in space).

He does not have "breakaway speed" going by the definition of the word. But if you give him open space, essentially any defender who can't run a 4.3 won't catch him, or they will have to at the very least dive at his feet from behind. You won't be catching up to him, like with Knowshon or perhaps McGahee.

What I like about this guy's highlights is that they aren't a product of his offensive line. You don't see him burst through any holes and run down the field untouched. That's the product of a great o-line. Almost all of his plays were self created. He just makes guys miss, or runs them over. That's the sign of a back that can do well in any system.



He played with Price in his last year at Washington, and Locker the year before. What this means is that he has PLENTY of experience with the read option, which we probably will run a bit next year. Not only is he quite good at it, but many of his best runs came out of the read.

Added bonus: Willis McGahee has crossed the dreaded 30 year old line for a runningback. Whether or not you agree with me that he only has a few years left, you have to agree with this: Fox loves having a 2nd RB worked in. The only reason it wasn't being done more is because after Slowshon went down, our reserves just weren't that great.

Polk is somewhere in between Deshaun Foster/DeAngelo Williams/Jonathan Stewart. All backs that Fox picked up on the first day of the NFL Draft. So if you think defense is a more pressing need, consider Fox's priorities.
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Old 11-27-2011, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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he seems to run... high. not like, chris brown high, but high. i dunno. and he seems slow out of his cuts. but i haven't paid a ton of attention to UW, so maybe that's way too knee jerk.

i'd rather get lamichael in the 2nd. mostly because i think he'd fit into our current offense really well and be a perfect change up from mcgahee.
I remember you saying that a bit back. I went on youtube (yeah... i know...) and watched his game highlights against tough competition. He's a great back, but we have to consider that

1. Fox likes big backs and he cannot lie, should be interesting to see if he is willing to compromise so we get a guy who fits the offense.
2. We only have 1 truly good running back right now.
3. That running back will be 31 next year.
4. At 180 whatever pounds, James may not fit the profile of "the heir apparent" to Willis.
5. All of this should be thrown out the window is James is the BPA when we come up to draft round 2.

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Old 11-27-2011, 09:11 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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I thought youd enjoy this incredibly well used spin
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Old 11-27-2011, 09:35 PM    (permalink
Jimmy
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I thought youd enjoy this incredibly well earned win
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:05 PM    (permalink
Diehard
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My feel good moment of the day was realizing that we've beaten all of our divisional rivals on their home turf this season. Also, seeing Tebow throw the ball a little better today was very encouraging.

Re: running back - we need one, no question about it. Who we get should depend on 1) value and 2) how the team feels about the tread on McGahee's tires. If they think his reduced workload over the past few years gives him some extra life, then I'd say get a back that complements him and the system (e.g. James). Given the relative value of the RB position right now, I think we can afford to be patient and look for someone to slide.
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:18 PM    (permalink
Jimmy
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i can agree with most of that, and i may still be stuck too much in the shanahan offense, where i think james would be perfect (and fairly portis-like). realistically, i just want to feel good that whoever we take (since i'd bet a lot that we take a rb), he's the guy the coaching staff thought was the best player. i really don't want (in spite of what i said above) to take a guy just because he'll fit into this current offense, if he's not actually the best guy there.
I'd actually prefer a guy like Denard Robinson who could be used as... essentially a Percy Harvin for TT. Now I know he's being considered here because he fits our current offense (or could be/potential offense) more than anyone, but the kid has Harvinesque talent running the ball.

Could make for some interesting packages with he and Teebs if we stick with the option next year.
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Old 11-27-2011, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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i like lamar miller quite a bit. he's a great speed back who has a good build and a decent amount of wiggle.

luke kuechly is a guy that i'd want us to target, should he declare. he's not an elite athlete, but i love everything else about him. he'd give our defense smart and consistent play in the middle, something mays definitely struggles with.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:22 AM    (permalink
Diehard
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i like lamar miller quite a bit. he's a great speed back who has a good build and a decent amount of wiggle.
I think a home-run hitter at RB would be a great combination with what we already have.

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luke kuechly is a guy that i'd want us to target, should he declare. he's not an elite athlete, but i love everything else about him. he'd give our defense smart and consistent play in the middle, something mays definitely struggles with.
After seeing our LB's overpursue and get burned by the cutback repeatedly, a steadying presence inside would be very helpful.

That being said, I don't think we should "target" or draft for need. We'd benefit from talent pretty much across the board. I can see us going BPA, with maybe a few positions off the radar (e.g. S).
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